Wendy Murphy

[BBB167893]

She's the greatest! She reminds me of me!

 

[southcitymom]

I did read it for myself, and more than Dr. Meyer's autopsy report. Coroner Dr. Meyer was no sexual abuse expert, but Dr. McCann is a world-renowned expert. He was on the panel of seven medical experts who almost unanimously agreed that there was evidence of prior sexual abuse in JB.
Dr. McCann spoke of 'prior hymeneal trauma': there were irregularities of the edges of the hymen, thickening of the inferior hymeneal rim, reddening of the vaginal walls, and exposure of structures of the vagina which are normally not visible in a child of that age. In addition, JB's vaginal opening measured one centimeter, which is far too large for a child of her age.

BTW, Dr. McCann and the other experts were all of the opinion that these symptoms could not have come from sports or masturbation.

I think we can neglect the RST's 'bubble bath' theory in that context. It is totally idiotic. But it shows how desperately the RST tries to come up with an explanation for the blue ribbon medical experts' findings which can't be explained away so easily.

The big question is: who was the person who abused JonBenet chronically?
If we apply 'Occam's razor' (= look for the most probable explanation first) it probably was John Ramsey.
But this doesn't mean that the chronic abuser was also the killer.

I definitely don't think the chronic abuser had to be the killer. And while John or Burke are the easy ones to point a finger at in terms of ongoing abuse, you have to remember that JBR was a beauty pageant queen and around a lot of adults and older people. And I'll bet the beauty pageant circuit draws its fair share of pedophiles. The chronic abuser could have been someone from that area of her life.

 

[southcitymom]

"If we apply 'Occam's razor' (= look for the most probable explanation first) it probably was John Ramsey."

Not necessarily. Could have been her brother and/or his friends. Kids get into trouble like that. I know I did.

I can't scan this, sorry, but Burke drew a picture that you DON'T need a psych degree to interpret as sexual. It's a face that's actually an upside-down vagina! I'm serious! The nose of the "face" looks exactly like and is in the same place as a clitoris! I thought, my god!

Where'd you get the pic of Burke's "face" - a book?

 

[luvbeaches]

Who is Nedra - I have never heard this piece of information before. Can you tell me more or leads me in the right direction?

Nedra is Patsy's mother. She said this right after JonBenet was killed. It's been discussed here. I could find the source if I need to...but we've talked about it and how weird of a comment it was from the grandma.

Whoops...I see Dave folllowed up on my post about this. Yeah, can you imagine a grandma saying that? Like it was okay because if was only a "little bit."

 

[luvbeaches]

When did she say this and in what context? I have never heard that. Why would a grandmother say something like that if she didn't have suspicions?

I also wondered if she had suspicions. I think something was going on...and she may have known.

 

[luvbeaches]

I definitely don't think the chronic abuser had to be the killer. And while John or Burke are the easy ones to point a finger at in terms of ongoing abuse, you have to remember that JBR was a beauty pageant queen and around a lot of adults and older people. And I'll bet the beauty pageant circuit draws its fair share of pedophiles. The chronic abuser could have been someone from that area of her life.

There could have been two different things going on.

First...she was being sexually abused by someone.

Second...the killer knew this, and tried to cover up this abuse with the broken paint brush. But that only creates new injury, it doesn't do anything to cover the old injuries. Now what led to this murder, I don't know...but I do think they killer took all things into consideration when staging the crime scene.

But I do think that the abuser and the killer knew one another. The killer tried to cover up for the abuser.

 

[rashomon]

When did she say this and in what context? I have never heard that. Why would a grandmother say something like that if she didn't have suspicions?

Nedra said this when she was interviewed for the Geraldo show. It is quoted in Schiller's book. But she was referring only to what she thought had happened on that fatal night.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

You know, some people think maybe the abuse was not sexually motivated but perhaps more of a form of corporal punishment. I've been sitting on the fence about that for a while.

 

[southcitymom]

Thanks rashomom and luvbeaches. That's fascinating. I guess I will look for the earlier threads discussing this. Were Patsy and her mother on good terms?

This is just a part of the case I do not know much about, but I will read more threads. Thanks, again.

 

[southcitymom]

You know, some people think maybe the abuse was not sexually motivated but perhaps more of a form of corporal punishment. I've been sitting on the fence about that for a while.

Yes, I have read about that theory as well. To be honest, I followed this case a great deal when it first occurred, but I have definitely not kept up with it in recent years, so I am discovering that there's a lot of new interesting and confusing information out there. The info is not new - just new to me.

 

[luvbeaches]

Thanks rashomom and luvbeaches. That's fascinating. I guess I will look for the earlier threads discussing this. Were Patsy and her mother on good terms?

This is just a part of the case I do not know much about, but I will read more threads. Thanks, again.

From eveything that I can remember, I think they were on good terms. In fact, I think they were all on good terms (if I am remembering correctly). I think Patsy's family funded their business.

One thing I thought was weird was that Patsy's dad flew out of Boulder on Xmas Eve standby. I don't think Nedra was there.

It was just such an odd statement from the grandma.

 

[ketel0ne]

It will be interesting to see if Wendy Murphy is on Paula Zahn tonight and with the same "expert opinions."

 

[LovelyPigeon]

The thing is, in this case as in others, that 'expert' and media opinions are all ovvvver the place.

What the BPD has come to focus on and pursue as evidence and as suspect is the bottomline, though, no matter how you want to cut it.

 

[dragonfly707]

Oh! She is in trouble now! She is on Scarborough right now with Rita Cosby and is saying pretty much all of the things she said on Zahn last night...Wood has warned her...

 

[southcitymom]

Nedra said this when she was inteviewed for the Geraldo show. It is quoted in Schiller's book. But she was referring only to what she thought had happened on that fatal night.

Yes, I researched this a litle and found the exact reference is to PMPT, papareback, page 519, where Nedra was being interviewed for Geraldo and she said she didn't know that JBR had "been molested to some extent and hit on the head." Also, it sounds like this scene was translated in the movie and something similar was said by Nedra about hearing JBR had been a "little molested"

So, taken in context, it doesn't sound like Nedra's comment indicated any prior knowledge about chronic molestation.

 

[Louisa]

Yes, I researched this a litle and found the exact reference is to PMPT, papareback, page 519, where Nedra was being interviewed for Geraldo and she said she didn't know that JBR had "been molested to some extent and hit on the head." Also, it sounds like this scene was translated in the movie and something similar was said by Nedra about hearing JBR had been a "little molested"

So, taken in context, it doesn't sound like Nedra's comment indicated any prior knowledge about chronic molestation.

Southcitymom, thanks for getting the exact quote from Nedra. The "inexact" quote ("a little bit molested") has been floating around Ramsey internet message boards for as long as I've been reading and posting on them, and that stretches back to the spring of 1997.

For the record, even with the inexact wording, I never saw Nedra as minimizing molestation like, "Oh, it wasn't a bad thing because it was just a little bit." I always felt it was a grandmother trying hard not to allow the full impact of what had happened to her granddaughter sink into her mind. That's a particularly tough image for an older woman to have to absorb about her grand baby.

 

[Backwoods]

For the record, even with the inexact wording, I never saw Nedra as minimizing molestation like, "Oh, it wasn't a bad thing because it was just a little bit." I always felt it was a grandmother trying hard not to allow the full impact of what had happened to her granddaughter sink into her mind. That's a particularly tough image for an older woman to have to absorb about her grand baby.

That's exactly my interpretation, too, Louisa.

I am really glad Southcitymom looked up the context on this--I'd been hearing this quoted with such venom and have to admit I was kind of thinking "what a thing to say" -- but now it is totally understandable.

 

[rashomon]

I definitely don't think the chronic abuser had to be the killer. And while John or Burke are the easy ones to point a finger at in terms of ongoing abuse, you have to remember that JBR was a beauty pageant queen and around a lot of adults and older people. And I'll bet the beauty pageant circuit draws its fair share of pedophiles. The chronic abuser could have been someone from that area of her life.

I too don't think the chronic abuser was the killer. John for example could have been the abuser and Patsy the killer. The initial rage needn't even have to be connected to sexual issues. (if it was a 'toilet rage' for example).

But you are right, there exists the possibility that JB had been molested by people in the pageant circus. But wasn't JB under constant 'surveillance' by her pageant-obsessed mother? Would Patsy not have noticed this if JB was molested by an outsider? And why, suppose she was molested, did JB (who was a very assertive child), not tell her mother?
Or do you think it possible that Patsy knew about it and tolerated it?

 

[Peter Hamilton]

well,I certainly don't think Patsy would have tolerated it

 

[celia]

Ummmmmmmm...that may depend on how desperately you wanted your daughter to win!