West Wind Farm and Spicher's whereabouts on June 4

[BeanE]

That's cuz you're a wonderful, analytical, fantastic person who could never think of such a thing. Some people are just wired differently -- like I think DDS is.

I personally think the farm should be looked at very closely!

MOO

Mel

Well thank you, mgardner. But believe me, from life experience unfortunately, as well a lack of naivete, and a whole lot of reading and studying, I know that people who seem wonderful can do very evil things.

I know that even sweet little old ladies, ice cream men, and clowns, priests, and more can be very evil.

But most people are just plain old ordinary people living their lives, not evil, not perfect, just average.

 

[bessie]

"Got back" from where, I wonder, if she never left the property? :waitasec:

Or did her friend mean she didn't bring her phone with her AT ALL that day and only realized she had missed the text when she got back HOME??

I took the friend's remark to mean Terri checked her phone when she returned from the class mentioned in another interview that DeDe was said to have attended during the day.

 

[Dee10]

If I had the opportunity to learn how to grow organic edible flowers and herbs and veggies at a such a gorgeous place, and spend only 5 hours a week doing it, it's hard for me to imagine taking time away from that to murder a child or bury a murdered child.

There's something about the extreme contrast there that I just can't seem to reconcile.

The people I know who are into gardening and organics and things along those lines are such kind and gentle souls, with great respect for life and nature and others. I'm trying to envision one of them murdering a child or burying a murdered child. Or even kidnapping a child. Handing them off to 'stash'. It's such a contrast. It just doesn't feel right. I'm having a hard time getting the story to work.

I wholeheartedly agree...I know a few of these people with similar interests, my own sister comes to mind & her friends as well. Very gentle souls, but in the same respect (from my perspective of these friends) also anti-establishment.

DeDe the BAT phones & her being MIA has me still sitting on the fence. TH... I hopped off that fence long ago, if LE clears her...I owe her "big time apologizes" if LE finally clears her for my opinion, which means nothing (not on the jury LOL). But seriously, I don't post an opinion without a whole lot of thought and I know many others here don't either. I am thankful we have the chance to discuss cases & have an opinion here.

 

[bessie]

Well thank you, mgardner. But believe me, from life experience unfortunately, as well a lack of naivete, and a whole lot of reading and studying, I know that people who seem wonderful can do very evil things.

I know that even sweet little old ladies, ice cream men, and clowns, priests, and more can be very evil.

But most people are just plain old ordinary people living their lives, not evil, not perfect, just average.

That's true, Bean E. For all of our quirks and peccadillos, the vast majority of us are just ordinary Janes and Joes. But the disappearance of a 7 year-old is an extraordinary occurrence. LE has given no indication either through their words or actions that a stranger is responsible, which leaves us to consider the individuals in Kyron's life. They all look fairly normal through a keyhole, yet reason tells us there's a square peg in there somewhere because at least one of them possesses the highly unusual ability to "disappear" a little boy.

 

[Melanie]

I wholeheartedly agree...I know a few of these people with similar interests, my own sister comes to mind & her friends as well. Very gentle souls, but in the same respect (from my perspective of these friends) also anti-establishment.

DeDe the BAT phones & her being MIA has me still sitting on the fence. TH... I hopped off that fence long ago, if LE clears her...I owe her "big time apologizes" if LE finally clears her for my opinion, which means nothing (not on the jury LOL). But seriously, I don't post an opinion without a whole lot of thought and I know many others here don't either. I am thankful we have the chance to discuss cases & have an opinion here.

I take the BAT phones and her being MIA into huge consideration here. I do believe she has a gentle side, but I also believe that she would be desperate to help and keep a friend. I've thought about it alot, and can't help but think DDS is involved somehow. A part of me says she has a good soul, by standing by her friend -- the other part of me says she doesn't. I do IMO honestly believe TH could have talked her into something and she got in way too deep.

But you're right -- I too am thankful we each have our chance to our own opinion.

MOO

Mel

 

[AZlawyer]

I took the friend's remark to mean Terri checked her phone when she returned from the class mentioned in another interview that DeDe was said to have attended during the day.

But DeDe says she never left the property. And it doesn't appear that there were any classes being held on the property.

Maybe her friend thought "internship" meant "class"?? But in that case why did she think DeDe had left the property to go to the class?

I'm confused. :waitasec:

 

[Calliope]

But DeDe says she never left the property. And it doesn't appear that there were any classes being held on the property.

Maybe her friend thought "internship" meant "class"?? But in that case why did she think DeDe had left the property to go to the class?

I'm confused. :waitasec:

If it's the internship that someone posted a link to on this thread, I'd consider it "classes" even if in the field. There's a "textbook" to purchase for the course, too.

I'm thinking that's where the confusion lies with the friend describing a "class".

eta: lol you were the one to post the link

Topics taught during apprenticeship can include:
· Gardening 101: Garden planning, soil preparation, raised beds
· Organic pest and disease control
· Tips on purchasing produce, finding local sources for fresh food
· Growing herbs, fruits and vegetables
· Harvesting produce
· Preparing the harvest, recipe sharing/development
· Storing the harvest (alternatives to canning)

sounds like classes to me. IMO, that's where the friend gets "class" from, and she may have meant when she returned home or even to her car, if she left her phone behind while there. I don't take my phone to class or seminars, and I know most instructors and speakers ask that you leave them behind or turned off while attending.

I think she meant working on the farm that day was "class", as it IS a requirement for that course.

 

[bessie]

But DeDe says she never left the property. And it doesn't appear that there were any classes being held on the property.

Maybe her friend thought "internship" meant "class"?? But in that case why did she think DeDe had left the property to go to the class?

I'm confused. :waitasec:

Oh, dear, please don't let me add to your confusion. Just scratch what I posted. Forget it. lol

Sometimes I'm half asleep when I'm reading here at night, so I might've misunderstood something I read or dreamed it. Who knows. On top of that, I've been very busy the past several days, so I'm not up to speed on the latest details. Anyway, I thought that I read she left her gardening duties temporarily to attend a traditional class on site which accounted for part of the time she was considered MIA. I got the impression that she checked her phone afterward when she returned to her car or wherever she leaves her belongings while working in the garden. I don't have a link handy, but I'll poke around a bit to find one.

 

[pufnstuf]

But DeDe says she never left the property. And it doesn't appear that there were any classes being held on the property.

Maybe her friend thought "internship" meant "class"?? But in that case why did she think DeDe had left the property to go to the class?

I'm confused. :waitasec:

And it still doesn't explain that a co-worker at the farm tried to locate her and couldn't find her.

My understanding is that, at lunch time, Dede was expected to come in from her job to eat with other workers at a lunch provided by the property owner. But she didn't show up. A co-worker looked for her, and the owner telephoned her, but no Dede.

I understand that Dede's friends would want to believe her, but they've only heard what Dede has told them, and, considering the circumstances, I think it's quite logical to assume that she lied.

I'm glad that the investigators can count on the property owner and the coworker who looked for her. They are cooperating with police, and they have no reason to lie. None at all. They've told investigators that she wasn't at the farm, and that's why the poster was put out, asking about Dede's whereabouts during the time that the property owner and the coworker say that she was missing.

 

[BeanE]

But DeDe says she never left the property. And it doesn't appear that there were any classes being held on the property.

If it's the internship that someone posted a link to on this thread, I'd consider it "classes" even if in the field. There's a "textbook" to purchase for the course, too.

I'm thinking that's where the confusion lies with the friend describing a "class".

eta: lol you were the one to post the link

Topics taught during apprenticeship can include:
· Gardening 101: Garden planning, soil preparation, raised beds
· Organic pest and disease control
· Tips on purchasing produce, finding local sources for fresh food
· Growing herbs, fruits and vegetables
· Harvesting produce
· Preparing the harvest, recipe sharing/development
· Storing the harvest (alternatives to canning)

Another person working at the home called Spicher to come in for lunch, and the homeowner called Spicher on her cell phone but she wasn't reachable.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/investigators_put_pressure_on.html

Spicher says was at a 38-acre nursery preparing for a garden tour the following day. "I never left the property that day," she says.

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20413527,00.html

Spicher most recently had obtained a gardening internship.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/dede_spichers_former_boyfriend.html

I think it's in a KOIN video around Aug 1 that a friend says Dede was at a landscaping class. I'll nail that down and find it after my second cup of coffee if anyone wants the link. Just holler.

Anyway, it looks to me, when I put all that together, that Dede was at a class on the property, and didn't answer her phone and hear the homeowner verbally call to her at lunch time. Or maybe she went to the bathroom. *shrug*

That's my haystack.

Oh yeah. I have here in my hand a flier from LE with Dede's pic in it asking some very specific people in a very specific area if they saw Dede there during some very specific times. It looks like LE asked a question, and it was answered. Because I think if it hadn't been answered they would have asked again a few days later when they had a perfect opportunity to. But no, a few days after they asked this question, they said they didn't need to talk about Dede. But I'll keep this piece of hay in my hand, and I'll add it to my stack if and when I need to.

And I'm not going to dig up these people's beautiful home looking for a murdered child's body, because LE already did that. I trust that if the good people living in this beautiful home find the dead body of a murdered child on their gorgeous grounds, they'll holler. Loud. And if and when that happens, I'll add that particular piece of hay to my stack, and take away any pieces I need to.

I love my haystack. It's sort of like Charlie Brown's Christmas Tree. I need a haystack icon. I'm thinking a lot about haystacks these days.

 

[emmcee]

. . . SNIP . . .

And I'm not going to dig up these people's beautiful home looking for a murdered child's body, because LE already did that. I trust that if the good people living in this beautiful home find the dead body of a murdered child on their gorgeous grounds, they'll holler. Loud. And if and when that happens, I'll add that particular piece of hay to my stack, and take away any pieces I need to.

. . . SNIP . . .

I ask respectfully . . . Do we know how extensively LE searched the property? I haven't seen much about this. And yes of course the owners would holler if they found a dead body.

My problem with the whole thing is, a freshly dug grave would not look any different than freshly turned soil, freshly planted shrubs, freshly weeded areas on this large estate -- especially if it existed among or underneath the plantings, not out in the open.

How can we find out if LE actually searched extensively on this property? How can we know if dogs were used there?

:detective:

TIA!

 

[BeanE]

I ask respectfully . . . Do we know how extensively LE searched the property? I haven't seen much about this. And yes of course the owners would holler if they found a dead body.

My problem with the whole thing is, a freshly dug grave would not look any different than freshly turned soil, freshly planted shrubs, freshly weeded areas on this large estate -- especially if it existed among or underneath the plantings, not out in the open.

How can we find out if LE actually searched extensively on this property? How can we know if dogs were used there?

:detective:

TIA!

Well, I live on the other side of the country, so I can't say for sure, but Kimster said when she and Free were there that there were search flags all over the place.

And we all know that Kimster is an :alien:, so...

 

[Chili Fries]

I still want to know the most basic question about this...why does LE think Terri met DeDe the day Kyron disappeared? Is it just because LE thinks Terri and DeDe were suspiciously close (DeDe moved in, batphones) and DeDe went missing the day Kyron vanished, or is there more (cellphone communications, pinpoint pings of Terri's phone, something else)? Unnamed sources, if you are reading this I'd like to hear more.

 

[gotpink]

Looking at the county assessors website and google earth, I believe the pic I am attaching to be the entire property of WWF. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

I am interested in knowing where people would enter the property and where DDS would have parked. If my theory that DDS disappeared from where she was working to meet TMH on a remote part of the property is true, I am interested in how DDS would walk there (leaving her car parked where it was at WWF) to meet TMH close to NW Old Germantown RD without being noticed by the other workers. It would also have to be somewhere where TMH could pull off the road and not cause suspicion or be seen by anyone traveling on NW OGT RD.

Any thoughts?

So you have the main driveway & then on the west side a long wooden gate. You could jump it easily & past of the gate opens & there's a small dirt rd