momrids6
JUSTICE FOR JENNIFER
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WI WI - Robert Christian, 18, Madison, 16 Sept 1977
- Thread starter Richard
- Start date
I just reread the articles and I am confused where the idea that Randy (Robert's friend) was "missing" came from. I doubt that he is.
As far as Randy not speaking out or whatever- LE had what I would call a HUGE response immediately after Bob's disappearance. They used helicopters, dogs, and ran numerous ground searches for a long time afterwards. I would strongly think that they questioned Randy and Randy's mom and scrutinized their behavior. I would be shocked if all their statements weren't sitting in the case file somewhere. So, just because WE haven't heard from Randy (in person or in MSM) shouldn't be hinky.
JMO
ETA: I believe that the idea that Randy is missing was actually an misunderstanding on page one of this thread. As far as I can tell Randy has never been missing.
As far as Randy not speaking out or whatever- LE had what I would call a HUGE response immediately after Bob's disappearance. They used helicopters, dogs, and ran numerous ground searches for a long time afterwards. I would strongly think that they questioned Randy and Randy's mom and scrutinized their behavior. I would be shocked if all their statements weren't sitting in the case file somewhere. So, just because WE haven't heard from Randy (in person or in MSM) shouldn't be hinky.
JMO
ETA: I believe that the idea that Randy is missing was actually an misunderstanding on page one of this thread. As far as I can tell Randy has never been missing.
LissaBeetle
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Hey all, I read through the thread earlier today. I had a couple of thoughts that crossed my mind that I haven't seen mentioned.
Has anyone given thought that the friend he told the witness he was meeting- the one where he appeared confused about the location, could it be that "friend" was a girl? And further, maybe one he shouldn't have been meeting?
Without reading back through the thread again, wasn't there a little time unaccounted for in the time line (something like two hours between when he picked up cigars and when he was seen in the driveway by the witness?)? If he had run into her (maybe someone he knew, or maybe just a stranger he struck up a conversation with), they got to talking and agreed to meet later?
Also, did I read correctly that the driveway the witness saw him sitting in was the driveway of a retreat at the end of that road? Does anyone know what type of retreat it was? Where there any cult type movements in the area in 1977? (I know that's way out of left field, but my mind made the leap, so I thought I'd mention it).
Has anyone given thought that the friend he told the witness he was meeting- the one where he appeared confused about the location, could it be that "friend" was a girl? And further, maybe one he shouldn't have been meeting?
Without reading back through the thread again, wasn't there a little time unaccounted for in the time line (something like two hours between when he picked up cigars and when he was seen in the driveway by the witness?)? If he had run into her (maybe someone he knew, or maybe just a stranger he struck up a conversation with), they got to talking and agreed to meet later?
Also, did I read correctly that the driveway the witness saw him sitting in was the driveway of a retreat at the end of that road? Does anyone know what type of retreat it was? Where there any cult type movements in the area in 1977? (I know that's way out of left field, but my mind made the leap, so I thought I'd mention it).
I believe it was a nun's retreat- and the witness had been visiting a friend there.
Bob's mom last saw him around 5:30pm as he was leaving town to drive to Randy's. The witness saw him around 8 ish. It is about an hour's drive between Madison and Baraboo or the retreat (only a short distance away from Baraboo).
In any case, there IS some extra time in there to meet up with someone before the witness sighting.
Bob's mom last saw him around 5:30pm as he was leaving town to drive to Randy's. The witness saw him around 8 ish. It is about an hour's drive between Madison and Baraboo or the retreat (only a short distance away from Baraboo).
In any case, there IS some extra time in there to meet up with someone before the witness sighting.
Just looked at the current satellite images of this area and (for the purposes of finding Bob) disappointed to see that it still is probably much the same as it was in 1977: farms and sections and strips of dense trees. It looks like there can easily be places that don't get any human intrusion.
I have a feeling that Bob went to check his tree stand or do some hunting before going to Randy's. That location may have been where the bad thing happened, and Randy's at home, it gets to be late, I think it said 5:30pm or so Bob left and Randy's Mom called at 9:30, and totally innocently they are worried, "Where's Bob?"
I think it is possible that Bob wanted to go check his tree stand first. I think he fell off that tree stand and suffered severe amnesia. That injury set off a series of events that led to Bob's disappearance.
I provided a You Tube video with a father showing his son how to use and get in a tree stand without slipping. It was shot at night, but you can see where someone could slip easily:
How to use a Climbing Tree Stand deer hunting - YouTube
Bob falls from a high tree stand, hits his head, is totally disoriented, even areas very familiar to him aren't because of a head injury. He's driving around in a trance, has a vague memory of meeting someone, doesn't know where or who by name, but knows he's supposed to meet his friend. However, that's all he knows.
He pulls up in the driveway and tells the witness he is supposed to meet his friend. We don't know what the witness said or how Bob appeared to the witness concerning mental or physical health. He says he must be in the wrong place and drives off.
The amnesia interferes with Bob's logic, so he sets out to either find Randy or whoever he was supposed to meet before seeing Randy. Bob leaves the car because he is so disoriented. He could be out there as a victim of amnesia, or been killed because of an accident or injury. If Bob was struck by a car in an injured state, I think the driver may have panicked and hid Bob's body.
Than we have the abandoned car with the $25 dollars in the glove compartment and keys in the ignition, with no sign of Bob, but the hunting gear was missing. Some totally innocent bystander who has nothing to do with Bob missing, comes along and does some swapping and switching of the equipment on Bob's Hornet for their own car.
The sounds like either a fall from the tree-stand or a hunting accident. I now think Randy had nothing to do with this at all.
Satch
That theory is kinda my number 1 theory Satch- :rockon:
But also I believe he could have simply fallen or had an accident while checking on it. Like he fell or slid down an embankment, drowned in a stream, fell into a small hole or even became disoriented in the woods and walked the wrong direction.
The witness statement is good, but still witness statements are known to be highly inaccurate. The witness came forward after all the searching had been underway for some time. Perhaps she saw the picture of him and her brain immediately adjusted her memory to make the man she saw asking for directions Bob.
Or maybe she did see him- but he had been running late that day. The 5:30 pm sighting by his mom in Baraboo was simply she saw him at an intersection as they were both by the bank. That doesn't mean he automatically left at that time for his trip. What if he had another errand or two to run? What if he had planned to meet another friend by the area around the retreat before heading to the treestand and then to Randy's? Admittedly, this is rather rude (being late to Randy's) but it could have happened.
But also I believe he could have simply fallen or had an accident while checking on it. Like he fell or slid down an embankment, drowned in a stream, fell into a small hole or even became disoriented in the woods and walked the wrong direction.
The witness statement is good, but still witness statements are known to be highly inaccurate. The witness came forward after all the searching had been underway for some time. Perhaps she saw the picture of him and her brain immediately adjusted her memory to make the man she saw asking for directions Bob.
Or maybe she did see him- but he had been running late that day. The 5:30 pm sighting by his mom in Baraboo was simply she saw him at an intersection as they were both by the bank. That doesn't mean he automatically left at that time for his trip. What if he had another errand or two to run? What if he had planned to meet another friend by the area around the retreat before heading to the treestand and then to Randy's? Admittedly, this is rather rude (being late to Randy's) but it could have happened.
Sure,
Bob could have set out to meet someone else before seeing Randy, and at any point in time from seeing a first person, or just going to see Randy exclusively, Bob has some kind of tragic fate. There was talk that Bob could have been mistaken for a deer by a hunter. I am not sure of that. However, I am growing more convinced that this was an accident and not foul play.
If this were a trial and the prosecutor was going to present that Bob was a victim of foul play, I would not be convinced of that at all. I think this was a terrible accident situation.
What I want to ask is what does everyone make about the reports of Bob going to buy a pack of cigars? I was trying to see how that fits into the case. The connection seems to be Bob told his Mom that he was going to buy cigars and she somewhat disapproved. Is that just there for a log of events, that really could not amount to anything more than Bob saying, "Oh I have to stop and get gas for the trip to Baraboo? The cigars COULD be something more.
Assuming that Bob had some sort of disorientation injury, what evidence has been done to show how cigar smoking as opposed to the conventional tobacco in cigarettes may influence judgement or thinking? Especially if Bob had am amnesia injury? Were the cigars in the car when it was found?
Satch
DianeElaine
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I've been lurking and decided to post something, after reading the thread.
--Was Bob's tree stand a 'climbing tree stand'? (I admit total ignorance on how many other types of tree stands existed in the 1970s, or in 2013 for that matter.)
--If it was a 'climbing tree stand', did the police or family members check it to see what the position/condition of the apparatus was? Was it 1/2 way up the tree, at the top, at the bottom?? If it was anything other than at the bottom, it could be evidence pointing to a possible accident. Right?
--Were the folks who lived in the homes near the sighting by the woman visiting the nun all questioned? I would want to know all about who was living in that area that could have possibly had connections to Bob.
--I couldn't help noticing that in the parents' newspaper article after 30 years of Bob's being missing, Bob's "friend" --i.e., Randy--was not identified as such. Does that mean anything? I really don't know...
--Who was the "tip" source who let police know where to check for the old tires and Bob's hub caps?? Surely, that source *might* know WHO put them there (or at the least, might be able to pick them out of a police lineup). Did the police follow up on that lead? If so, what did they find?
--The fact that Bob's stripped car (actually, Bob's parents' car) was left in the environs of the side of the road with the keys in the ignition, says to me that whoever stripped the car was a 'local' and didn't want to be found in *possession* of said car b/c they could then be connected to it as a stolen vehicle (and/or Bob's disappearance). A bit of criminal sophistication? Also, the perps must have had a truck/car/vehicle to transport the tires and other things to wherever they wanted to "work" on their own car. I think that leaves behind anyone on a motorcycle, for instance.
--Don't ask me why the "strippers" didn't take the cash in the glove box. WTF?
--And, yes, absolutely---where is Randy, and what does he have to say about Bob's disappearance?
--Was Bob's tree stand a 'climbing tree stand'? (I admit total ignorance on how many other types of tree stands existed in the 1970s, or in 2013 for that matter.)
--If it was a 'climbing tree stand', did the police or family members check it to see what the position/condition of the apparatus was? Was it 1/2 way up the tree, at the top, at the bottom?? If it was anything other than at the bottom, it could be evidence pointing to a possible accident. Right?
--Were the folks who lived in the homes near the sighting by the woman visiting the nun all questioned? I would want to know all about who was living in that area that could have possibly had connections to Bob.
--I couldn't help noticing that in the parents' newspaper article after 30 years of Bob's being missing, Bob's "friend" --i.e., Randy--was not identified as such. Does that mean anything? I really don't know...
--Who was the "tip" source who let police know where to check for the old tires and Bob's hub caps?? Surely, that source *might* know WHO put them there (or at the least, might be able to pick them out of a police lineup). Did the police follow up on that lead? If so, what did they find?
--The fact that Bob's stripped car (actually, Bob's parents' car) was left in the environs of the side of the road with the keys in the ignition, says to me that whoever stripped the car was a 'local' and didn't want to be found in *possession* of said car b/c they could then be connected to it as a stolen vehicle (and/or Bob's disappearance). A bit of criminal sophistication? Also, the perps must have had a truck/car/vehicle to transport the tires and other things to wherever they wanted to "work" on their own car. I think that leaves behind anyone on a motorcycle, for instance.
--Don't ask me why the "strippers" didn't take the cash in the glove box. WTF?
--And, yes, absolutely---where is Randy, and what does he have to say about Bob's disappearance?
If it was Robert that the witness actually saw, I wonder if it was possible he was looking for a house in that area of another friend or an acqaintance other than Randy. Maybe he was going to stop by this "friend's" house to buy something or drop something off? Perhaps it was suppose to be a quick stop, before going to Randy's house.
Has anyone tried to contact Robert's parents? I believe one of them is deceased and the other may still be alive. I was considering writing a letter to see if he may recognize any of the decreased unidentified people that I have in my data base, that I have considered to be a possible match. Does anyone know of any relatives from his? I am surprised that I have not read anything online from any of his relatives trying to find him, as of yet. I hope that they read this.
Robert disappeared at a time in which many people were disappearing. There are many similarities in his case as several other cases around that time. Also, the John Wayne Gacy case was around this time and location. Several people were misidentified in the Gacy case.
Buster, do you still come on this thread? I have been trying to reach Robert's father for a long time... or perhaps his brother. Do you know his brother's name? I have his father's address, but I'm not sure if he still lives there. I was thinking of sending a letter. I aid in unidentified/missing people cases and have a database I built of missing/UID men from particularly the late 1970's (focusing on 1976, 1977, and 1978). I wanted to see if they can look through a few photos of UID people, to see if there is perhaps a match. Please send me a PM if you are still coming on this site. My name is Barbara. Thank you.
We aren't supposed to contact victim's families here on WS. It would be better if you contacted the PD in charge of this case if you feel like you have a strong lead.
Robert Lewis Christian was indeed murdered. It was not a hunting accident as so many people seem to think. He did not slip and fall from his tree stand and had no disorientation episode. He was murdered. But Who? What? Why? Where?
Following his 2 errands (the bank and Walgreens), it was nearly 6 oclock before Robert actually went on his way to Baraboo. His arrival time at Randy Griffith's home, had he gone directly there, would have been shortly before 7 o'clock. But he did not go directly there. This explains the missing hour or so until the 8 pm witness citing. But where did he go?
Robert had planned to buy some pot. Thats why he withdrew $25 from his bank account. He had never done this before and was not too sure how to go about it. Along the way, he stopped at a bar and made some inquiries. Someone overheard him. They talked and agreed to meet somewhere along Tower Road for the transaction.
Once there, the contact did not show up. This is why Robert said he was looking for his friend and thought he was in the wrong place. It was a set-up. After Robert drove off, he intended to forget about the pot and to go and check his tree stand. He parked his car in that driveway on Tower Road. He got out of his car but only walked a short distance before his contact showed up and picked him up.
Robert fell into the wrong hands. The murderer was not a local but knew the area as he had been here before. But why murder? Why Robert? There could be numerous answers to that. One would have to be inside the murderers head to know those answers. Robert was not a specific target. This was just a case of, as I said, falling into the wrong hands. The body was never found locally because the murderer took it with him. Where is it? Only he knows.
One last thing. Roberts car was stripped by locals after his disappearance. They took the hunting bow as well. Hunting is a big thing in those parts so a hunting bow would surely be a coveted item. They did not know about the money in the glove box. Financial gain was not their objective. The hubcaps and old tires were dumped many miles from the scene so as to make it appear that the perpetrators were not locals. Thats why the license plate was also removed. A local would not do these things.
The pieces of the puzzle are all right there in front of us as are the answers to this mystery. The pieces just have to be put in their proper place. Consider the following :
1-Robert clearly had a planned engagement before heading to Randy Griffiths place. Not planned in precise detail but planned nonetheless. This explains the missing time between his departure time and the witness citing 2 hours later.
2-Robert was clearly not known for his drug use. This is why it was so discreetly planned. Not because drug-taking was a regular habit of his, as I said. But simply because it was a new thing to him and he did not want it to be known, especially by his mother who even disapproved of his cigar smoking. Keeping this in mind, pot was an obvious choice. A beginner or rare user, especially one as smart as Robert, would not start with hard drugs.
3-Randy, Roberts friend, knew about the planned pot purchase. When Robert turned up missing, he was terrified something very wrong had happened. He likely thought that if someone got Robert, they could get him too. This is why Randy Griffith is so absent from all the known information. Fear. Not lack of co-operation. Rather, lack of co-operation because of fear.
4-Bloodhounds tracked Roberts scent from where the car was found to Tower Road, but only for a short distance. Then the scent disappeared. This clearly indicated that, one, Robert himself parked the car there and, two, he was picked by a vehicle on Tower Road. Hence the disappearing scent.
5-At five foot ten and 210 pounds, Robert was a big guy of fairly imposing stature. If Robert was killed by manual means, the murderer had to be likely a man who was large and powerful enough to overcome someone of Roberts size. If Robert was killed by an object, such as a gun or knife, the killers size or gender does not matter. Such means do not require physical size and strength. Just the element of surprise or intimidation.
Following his 2 errands (the bank and Walgreens), it was nearly 6 oclock before Robert actually went on his way to Baraboo. His arrival time at Randy Griffith's home, had he gone directly there, would have been shortly before 7 o'clock. But he did not go directly there. This explains the missing hour or so until the 8 pm witness citing. But where did he go?
Robert had planned to buy some pot. Thats why he withdrew $25 from his bank account. He had never done this before and was not too sure how to go about it. Along the way, he stopped at a bar and made some inquiries. Someone overheard him. They talked and agreed to meet somewhere along Tower Road for the transaction.
Once there, the contact did not show up. This is why Robert said he was looking for his friend and thought he was in the wrong place. It was a set-up. After Robert drove off, he intended to forget about the pot and to go and check his tree stand. He parked his car in that driveway on Tower Road. He got out of his car but only walked a short distance before his contact showed up and picked him up.
Robert fell into the wrong hands. The murderer was not a local but knew the area as he had been here before. But why murder? Why Robert? There could be numerous answers to that. One would have to be inside the murderers head to know those answers. Robert was not a specific target. This was just a case of, as I said, falling into the wrong hands. The body was never found locally because the murderer took it with him. Where is it? Only he knows.
One last thing. Roberts car was stripped by locals after his disappearance. They took the hunting bow as well. Hunting is a big thing in those parts so a hunting bow would surely be a coveted item. They did not know about the money in the glove box. Financial gain was not their objective. The hubcaps and old tires were dumped many miles from the scene so as to make it appear that the perpetrators were not locals. Thats why the license plate was also removed. A local would not do these things.
The pieces of the puzzle are all right there in front of us as are the answers to this mystery. The pieces just have to be put in their proper place. Consider the following :
1-Robert clearly had a planned engagement before heading to Randy Griffiths place. Not planned in precise detail but planned nonetheless. This explains the missing time between his departure time and the witness citing 2 hours later.
2-Robert was clearly not known for his drug use. This is why it was so discreetly planned. Not because drug-taking was a regular habit of his, as I said. But simply because it was a new thing to him and he did not want it to be known, especially by his mother who even disapproved of his cigar smoking. Keeping this in mind, pot was an obvious choice. A beginner or rare user, especially one as smart as Robert, would not start with hard drugs.
3-Randy, Roberts friend, knew about the planned pot purchase. When Robert turned up missing, he was terrified something very wrong had happened. He likely thought that if someone got Robert, they could get him too. This is why Randy Griffith is so absent from all the known information. Fear. Not lack of co-operation. Rather, lack of co-operation because of fear.
4-Bloodhounds tracked Roberts scent from where the car was found to Tower Road, but only for a short distance. Then the scent disappeared. This clearly indicated that, one, Robert himself parked the car there and, two, he was picked by a vehicle on Tower Road. Hence the disappearing scent.
5-At five foot ten and 210 pounds, Robert was a big guy of fairly imposing stature. If Robert was killed by manual means, the murderer had to be likely a man who was large and powerful enough to overcome someone of Roberts size. If Robert was killed by an object, such as a gun or knife, the killers size or gender does not matter. Such means do not require physical size and strength. Just the element of surprise or intimidation.
This is really worth looking into more! Good suggestions. He could be on the run or just in hiding.
Bumping for Bob on his birthday..... Someone was asking me for contact info for Bob's relatives. I haven't had any contact with them for many years and don't know if they would want me to give out their information. I wish I could. I did send a message to his sister via facebook in 2012, but never got a response. I am not friends with her on facebook, so it went to her "other" mailbox and maybe she never saw the message.
For the people who are wondering if his disappearance is connected to his sister's disappearance.... Here is a link to an article about the sister's murder. http://http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-10-25/news/8503130210_1_ghost-riders-faulty-wiring-murder-charge
A lot of people have mentioned something that I didn't want to put on the board. I had heard rumors that Bob was using marijuana in the months before his disappearance (meaning I heard this before he disappeared). I don't know if it was true. The guesses that he stopped to buy some could be right on.
Edit: I guess the link doesn't work. If you search Catherine Christian, rosa's cantina, ghost riders and Alvin hegge it should come up. Maybe someone more tech savvy can post a link for me.....
http://http://strategis-one.com/News_Writing_-_Ghost_Riders.html
For the people who are wondering if his disappearance is connected to his sister's disappearance.... Here is a link to an article about the sister's murder. http://http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-10-25/news/8503130210_1_ghost-riders-faulty-wiring-murder-charge
A lot of people have mentioned something that I didn't want to put on the board. I had heard rumors that Bob was using marijuana in the months before his disappearance (meaning I heard this before he disappeared). I don't know if it was true. The guesses that he stopped to buy some could be right on.
Edit: I guess the link doesn't work. If you search Catherine Christian, rosa's cantina, ghost riders and Alvin hegge it should come up. Maybe someone more tech savvy can post a link for me.....
http://http://strategis-one.com/News_Writing_-_Ghost_Riders.html