CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #9

[Nikynoo]

Though I agree that @dbdb11's reply to that comment is ambiguous, I still don't think that both sources were at the kennel. Here's another post in which he discusses the kennel but doesn't say that different people there had different impressions of BT:

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5

Maybe when he returns, @dbdb11 can clarify this.

JMO

I agree, its ambiguous.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

It's been awhile since @dbdb11 has been around. I hope his father is OK. It's hard enough for a family to deal with serious illness. I can't imagine having to deal with a missing loved one at the same time.

So true, jash...sitting vigil with heartfelt wishes and hope abounding from all for Barbara to be found, her brother to heal, and her loved ones to see their way through this incredibly difficult time and be reunited as a loving family once again.

 

[Nikynoo]

RSBM for focus


IIRC, Another Websleuths member posted detailed temps from Kelso, ID by mistake. My apologies for not being able to find the post...but I remember subsequently looking up the temperature from July 12, 2019 in Kelso, CA from this link:
https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/kelso/92309/july-weather/342460?year=2019
Today, if you follow that link and look at July 12th, the high was 109 and the low was 83. Kelso, CA is 16 miles from the intersection of Kelbaker and Hidden Hills Rd near the Kelso Dunes visitor center according to my google maps. I’m not sure how this site gets their weather data or how accurate it is, and I’m not sure how much of an altitude change there is in those 16 miles

ETA: @10ofRods Baker is not very far from Kelso; 51 miles from the intersection of HH and Kelbaker...I’m off to compare temperatures!
Baker’s reported temperatures were the same as Kelso, CA 109 high; 83 low

The 109 high is much hotter than I’ve been thinking since thread 1

IMO: not logical for experienced desert hikers to be out there at 2pm.

i think both @10ofRods and @sroad said that because of the elevation, it is a little cooler there (KB/HH)

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I agree, its ambiguous.

He clarified this tho, a while ago. If you looked thro all his posts you would find it somewhere.

 

[firstsleuth]

ETA: thank you @Nikynoo I also just found this from @sroad
CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #2

Reported temperatures from the post above said it was in the 90’s when they (sroad) were camping there...mystery solved for me; hopefully for anyone else wondering as well...

Following is what I first wrote b4 finding sroad’s post

i think both @10ofRods and @sroad said that because of the elevation, it is a little cooler there (KB/HH)

Thank you @Nikynoo

just found this post from @LAhiker in thread 7 page 4, 3rd post down reporting the HH and Kelbaker Rd intersection at approximately 3841’ elevation.

Link to page:CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #7


Kelso CA elevation is 2142’
Baker is 942’

Comparing these 2 elevations and the fact that accuweather reported the exact same temps for both on July 12, 2019 (109 high; 83 low) cause me to doubt the accuracy of the accuweather website and the data they are reporting

Therefore, I continue to wonder what the temperatures were on July 12th. IMO, every increase of 5 degrees from 85 to 110 is very different in terms of hiking speed and ability to hike at all

 

[10ofRods]

We also have LE giving temps in the NIXLE reports. “Low 100’s” is mentioned a couple of times, IIRC.

That’s really not too bad compared to being outdoors in the sun in Bullhead City, where Barbara was often seen walking Lexi (although probably not at the hottest part of the day). It was about 100 at 8:30 am, in the shade, in Bullhead City on July 12...and about 115 by 2-3 pm.

So Mojave NP was cooler outdoors that day, than staying home. It was about 92 at 5 am that morning in Bullhead (the overnight low).

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Partial QUOTE from 10ofRods
"frontal lobe dementia (new memories not forming well, old memories intact, bad at estimating time, poor at recounting events chronologically, using tech that was once familiar, no new tech, irritable when new situations arise)."
Anything is Possible .. ? He really could be a Victim of this...
Look at his actions in words, which are Fact as we all witnessed him speak ..

That's a bit much to assume or 'diagnose' across the airwaves.

 

[deugirtni]

Though I agree that @dbdb11's reply to that comment is ambiguous, I still don't think that both sources were at the kennel. Here's another post in which he discusses the kennel but doesn't say that different people there had different impressions of BT:

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5

Maybe when he returns, @dbdb11 can clarify this.

JMO

To me there is nothing about his statement that makes it sound like it was only one person ('staff' to me is plural, while staff person (to me) is singular) From your link :

Barbara Thomas last seen 8:10 AM by staff at the Kennel where the dog is kept when they leave town.
Staff relayed Barb seemed aggravated and angry. Far from her usual friendly-self.

Then he goes on at a later time, to clarify that only one of them had said she seemed that way, which he expressly says is referring to the kennel - from my link :

[about the dog kennel boarding]

just to clarify, one source expressed she was visibly aggravated, and not her usual friendly self. the other expressed nothing unusual or out of the ordinary.

---
He also said he had two 'independent sources' tell him they'd seen her, which I take to mean 'one' 'source' was the kennel (even though there were two staff who'd seen her (and I only say 'two' because at one point he says 'the other', which to me means there was one who said she was aggravated and one more who expressed nothing unusual), it was at same 'source', imo), while the other 'source' was the neighbor.

i have two independent sources who saw Barb on the morning of the 12th, one who expressed she was visibly aggravated and not her normal self.

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5

neighbor gave a time range that he 'saw' them with his own eyes getting ready to leave (not talking video atm) and the time fits.

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #5

Also this.. note the 'them', which is definitely plural:

TristanP said: ↑
I don’t know but that doesn’t seem like reliable info to me. Hard to believe police wouldn’t have interviewed people she interacted with that morning.

*modsnip*. info is sound. police had not interviewed kennel staff by the time i had spoken to them.

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #6

edited for formatting

 

[sroad]

The weather seems to come up every new thread, and folks are asking the same questions, and then finding weather stations far away at different elevations.

(I think by the way, the missing person discussions could be significantly improved is by creating a new sub-forum for each missing person, thus allowing threads and pinned posts with just the facts at the top, and discussion posts below, for each sub topic. Like a thread dedicated to the weather, another discussion thread about the clothing, the POI, etc. Thus creating greater efficiency in information, less duplication of effort, etc IMO. Perhaps this is not possible without significant additional resources, but I thought I put it out there in case an admin is reading this).

The Sweeney Granite Mountains Desert Research Center is scientifically calibrated yearly (and used by researchers who come to this reserve) and located just 2.6 miles (as the crow flies) from the turnout and hike. The turnout is at 3840 feet, and the hike would have gone up to about 3900 feet. The research center is at 4279 feet above sea level, so only a few hundred feet higher, so you could perhaps add a degree or so to the temperature results from the official UC Natural Reserve weather station.

I've attached the weather graphs specifically for that day that might be of interest.

I live a few hours south in the Lower Sonoran Desert, with summer heat similar to Amboy and Bullhead City. To me, going up to about 4000 feet for camping and hiking is a quite workable and a great alternative to going to the high Sierras or all the way to the coast, especially hiking in the mornings, or late afternoon/early evenings. It is however not common for folks to primitive camp in especially in the lower desert in the summer due to the need for air conditioning. The snow birds are not starting to come back south until about October, and in the lower deserts, they get out of dodge when the temps start creeping into the 90's during the day (April). In the summer, you will find folks camping near water in the deserts in developed campgrounds or RV parks with hookups, but not so much if it doesn't have hookups. My wife and I enjoy it it sometimes, as we have a window AC and mini swamp cooler. The AC can be run off a small generator, and on a day like July 12 at this location (we were camped there the weekend after the disappearance), we would run the small window AC perhaps from about 10 am to 6 or 7 pm). After that and if it is not humid, you can manage with fans.

Weather Analyses | Sweeney Granite Mountains Desert Research Center

 

[Nerissa]

well @ weather: mojave desert: it was freakin' hot
there ya go
you're welcome

(used to live there btw)

 

[firstsleuth]

The weather seems to come up every new thread, and folks are asking the same questions, and then finding weather stations far away at different elevations.

(I think by the way, the missing person discussions could be significantly improved is by creating a new sub-forum for each missing person, thus allowing threads and pinned posts with just the facts at the top, and discussion posts below, for each sub topic. Like a thread dedicated to the weather, another discussion thread about the clothing, the POI, etc. Thus creating greater efficiency in information, less duplication of effort, etc IMO. Perhaps this is not possible without significant additional resources, but I thought I put it out there in case an admin is reading this).

The Sweeney Granite Mountains Desert Research Center is scientifically calibrated yearly (and used by researchers who come to this reserve) and located just 2.6 miles (as the crow flies) from the turnout and hike. The turnout is at 3840 feet, and the hike would have gone up to about 3900 feet. The research center is at 4279 feet above sea level, so only a few hundred feet higher, so you could perhaps add a degree or so to the temperature results from the official UC Natural Reserve weather station.

I've attached the weather graphs specifically for that day that might be of interest.

I live a few hours south in the Lower Sonoran Desert, with summer heat similar to Amboy and Bullhead City. To me, going up to about 4000 feet for camping and hiking is a quite workable and a great alternative to going to the high Sierras or all the way to the coast, especially hiking in the mornings, or late afternoon/early evenings. It is however not common for folks to primitive camp in especially in the lower desert in the summer due to the need for air conditioning. The snow birds are not starting to come back south until about October, and in the lower deserts, they get out of dodge when the temps start creeping into the 90's during the day (April). In the summer, you will find folks camping near water in the deserts in developed campgrounds or RV parks with hookups, but not so much if it doesn't have hookups. My wife and I enjoy it it sometimes, as we have a window AC and mini swamp cooler. The AC can be run off a small generator, and on a day like July 12 at this location (we were camped there the weekend after the disappearance), we would run the small window AC perhaps from about 10 am to 6 or 7 pm). After that and if it is not humid, you can manage with fans.

Weather Analyses | Sweeney Granite Mountains Desert Research Center

Thanks @sroad ; so we can put a stamp on this!

Here is a screenshot from July 12. High temp was 95.2 at 4pm; low temp was 78.4 at 6am.

Another Websleuths member was asking about soil temperatures up thread(s)? Those are here as well.

@PommyMommy maybe this link to weather could be posted in the media thread? Or, we could create sub threads as @sroad so wisely suggested?

ETA: my screenshot won’t post; I took it from sroads Link after adding the date
ETA: here is the screenshot; trying again
ETA: you must follow sroad’s link, then enter the date; screenshots don’t work, but there are a lot of interesting data points there!

 

[Kapua]

The weather seems to come up every new thread, and folks are asking the same questions, and then finding weather stations far away at different elevations.

(I think by the way, the missing person discussions could be significantly improved is by creating a new sub-forum for each missing person, thus allowing threads and pinned posts with just the facts at the top, and discussion posts below, for each sub topic. Like a thread dedicated to the weather, another discussion thread about the clothing, the POI, etc. Thus creating greater efficiency in information, less duplication of effort, etc IMO. Perhaps this is not possible without significant additional resources, but I thought I put it out there in case an admin is reading this).

The Sweeney Granite Mountains Desert Research Center is scientifically calibrated yearly (and used by researchers who come to this reserve) and located just 2.6 miles (as the crow flies) from the turnout and hike. The turnout is at 3840 feet, and the hike would have gone up to about 3900 feet. The research center is at 4279 feet above sea level, so only a few hundred feet higher, so you could perhaps add a degree or so to the temperature results from the official UC Natural Reserve weather station.

I've attached the weather graphs specifically for that day that might be of interest.

I live a few hours south in the Lower Sonoran Desert, with summer heat similar to Amboy and Bullhead City. To me, going up to about 4000 feet for camping and hiking is a quite workable and a great alternative to going to the high Sierras or all the way to the coast, especially hiking in the mornings, or late afternoon/early evenings. It is however not common for folks to primitive camp in especially in the lower desert in the summer due to the need for air conditioning. The snow birds are not starting to come back south until about October, and in the lower deserts, they get out of dodge when the temps start creeping into the 90's during the day (April). In the summer, you will find folks camping near water in the deserts in developed campgrounds or RV parks with hookups, but not so much if it doesn't have hookups. My wife and I enjoy it it sometimes, as we have a window AC and mini swamp cooler. The AC can be run off a small generator, and on a day like July 12 at this location (we were camped there the weekend after the disappearance), we would run the small window AC perhaps from about 10 am to 6 or 7 pm). After that and if it is not humid, you can manage with fans.

Weather Analyses | Sweeney Granite Mountains Desert Research Center

Thank you very much, @sroad, this is very helpful to the discussion.

So it was indeed hotter in Bullhead City, AZ on July 12. Accuweather says Bullhead City was 115 with a low of 91.

https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/bullhead-city/86429/july-weather/2123777?year=2019

 

[firstsleuth]

BBM

Thank you very much, @sroad, this is very helpful to the discussion.

So it was indeed hotter in Bullhead City, AZ on July 12. Accuweather says Bullhead City was 115 with a low of 91.

https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/bullhead-city/86429/july-weather/2123777?year=2019

20 degrees hotter than at Sweeney Granite Mountains Research Center; very near to where the Thomas’ reportedly were hiking

 

[PommyMommy]

Thanks @sroad ; so we can put a stamp on this!

Here is a screenshot from July 12. High temp was 95.2 at 4pm; low temp was 78.4 at 6am.

Another Websleuths member was asking about soil temperatures up thread(s)? Those are here as well.

@PommyMommy maybe this link to weather could be posted in the media thread? Or, we could create sub threads as @sroad so wisely suggested?

ETA: my screenshot won’t post; I took it from sroads Link after adding the date
ETA: here is the screenshot; trying again
ETA: you must follow sroad’s link, then enter the date; screenshots don’t work, but there are a lot of interesting data points there!

I'll be glad to add it. Amazing post, @sroad!

There's also this information there from Paul R:

CA - CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #4
Here are the temperatures (actual and feels like) and the UV index for nearby Kelso, CA on the day BT went missing.



You'll have to ask a mod about the sub-threads. I can't answer that one.

 

[firstsleuth]

Thank you PommyMommy
Yes, but respectfully, those are very different from sroads’ link to the Sweeney Granite Mountains temps. IMO, due to the elevation differences, and the weather link provided by sroad at the closer location with more similar elevation the Thomas’ reported location was 10 degrees cooler
ETA
@PommyMommy those were the numbers that started me off on my rabbit hole 105 degrees at 2pm at Kelso

 

[Handsome Sailor]

he was the last to see her

 

[PommyMommy]

Thank you PommyMommy
Yes, but respectfully, those are very different from sroads’ link to the Sweeney Granite Mountains temps. IMO, due to the elevation differences, and the weather link provided by sroad at the closer location with more similar elevation the Thomas’ reported location was 10 degrees cooler
ETA
@PommyMommy those were the numbers that started me off on my rabbit hole 105 degrees at 2pm at Kelso

Absolutely. This is wonderful information and I'm sure it will be referred to often. I was just sharing what was there already concerning the weather.

Also, anyone can post to the media thread so feel free to add anything like this that you want to keep handy.

AZ - AZ - Barbara Thomas, 69, Timeline, Media, Maps, *NO DISCUSSION*

 

[Lilibet]

(I think by the way, the missing person discussions could be significantly improved is by creating a new sub-forum for each missing person, thus allowing threads and pinned posts with just the facts at the top, and discussion posts below, for each sub topic. Like a thread dedicated to the weather, another discussion thread about the clothing, the POI, etc. Thus creating greater efficiency in information, less duplication of effort, etc IMO. Perhaps this is not possible without significant additional resources, but I thought I put it out there in case an admin is reading this).

@sroad, This sub-forum idea has actually been implemented on a number of long-running, complex cases such as the McStay Family and Teresa Sievers. I will report my post and ask if this case qualifies yet.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/forums/mcstay-family.507/

Dr. Teresa Sievers

 

[sroad]

Thank you @Lilibet, glad to know there is this sub-forum capability and for your making the request!

 

[Sillybilly]

@sroad, This sub-forum idea has actually been implemented on a number of long-running, complex cases such as the McStay Family and Teresa Sievers. I will report my post and ask if this case qualifies yet.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/forums/mcstay-family.507/

Dr. Teresa Sievers

This case is only since July and is not that complicated by WS standards; not seeing a need for it right now.

As for the suggestion upthread that we create sub-forums for every missing person, that is simply not feasible given the number of active cases at any given time and our available volunteer resources.