Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

[dixiegirl1035]

Not too dissimilar to this case, with oil tanks and in that case the underground cesspit. Disgusting monsters. Stewart also put Helen's beloved dachshund Boris in the sewer with her, for those who don't know the case, because he knew Helen wouldn't have gone away on her own volition without him.

This makes me wonder if he was going to do something to the dog later. The dog was heard barking a lot, and he could say that Shannon must have been home with the dog and that's the proof. And then when the dog is gone the next day, that is when he was going to say Shanann left?

But I doubt it only because I can't fathom he planned it out that well far in advance?

 

[bonjoviblonde]

Death kills humans, what happens afterward is a different issue. A dead body concealed is a dead body concealed no matter where it might be hidden afterwards. I'm not on some kind of religious high-horse about "desecration" because the bodies were already dead and the charges against CW reflect that fact.

I seriously doubt a jury will conclude guilt on first degree murder based only on the fact he concealed the bodies. The prosecutor must prove the charge of murder and concealment of the bodies is secondary and a lessor offense. JMO

Are you saying those of us who are appalled at the way he got rid of their bodies and think his doing so show his guilt are “on a religious high horse”? IMO It’s wishful thinking to think a jury will not consider this while making their decision. It’s also wishful thinking if you think concealing the bodies are “the only fact” pointing towards his guilt.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

There was talk about a garbage bag being found at the site where the bodies were found, with a foot print or partial foot print, not sure which now. The prosecution then requested CW foot prints, DNA ect.

It was never said it was a garbage bag, it was an assumption. Because their word was something like impermeable bag?

 

[Tortoise]

This makes me wonder if he was going to do something to the dog later. The dog was heard barking a lot, and he could say that Shannon must have been home with the dog and that's the proof. And then when the dog is gone the next day, that is when he was going to say Shanann left?

But I doubt it only because I can't fathom he planned it out that well far in advance?

Perhaps he was worried about getting bitten back and having marks on him. In Stewart's case they couldn't determine if Boris was alive when he was put in the pit, inside a pillowcase with one of his toys. So maybe he lured Boris into the pillowcase because of a similar fear of what might happen if he tried to strangle him.

 

[MerryB]

Hi All—I haven’t been on in a while due to the fact that there hasn’t been anything new in this case, but peeked in with the news of the status hearing being moved up to Tuesday.

While I have very little legal literacy, this development seems important to me. When reading about a status conference in a criminal court case, it says: “A status hearing in a criminal case is a pre-trial conference made in an effort to resolve the case without it having to go to trial. It generally takes place with the judge, the prosecution, the defendant and the defendant's lawyer in attendance.”

I’ve included my reference below.

IF that’s the case here, IMO, there is absolutely *no way* the DA would agree to resolve this case (AKA make a plea deal) at this point in time if CW was guilty of murdering his children.

IF this is a plea, I think it has to mean that the autopsy (which prosecution wants sealed) and most likely the investigation (texts, interviews, forensics) contain damaging information that the DA & SW’s family don’t want out, and CW’s version of events is in fact what happened. I can’t see any other reason they’d offer a plea deal at this point, if that’s what this is.

MOO

What Is a Status Hearing in a Criminal Case?

 

[BabyButterfly]

I’m not @gitana1, but the voices in my head say that I could be, if I apply myself.

“Colorado law gives prosecutors up to 63 days after a defendant’s arraignment to determine if the death penalty will be sought.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aj...ife-daughters/mGZxeV9m9dYhI6q86ADtoJ/amp.html

This made me laugh out loud! Thanks for that!

 

[MsBetsy]

Death kills humans, what happens afterward is a different issue. A dead body concealed is a dead body concealed no matter where it might be hidden afterwards. I'm not on some kind of religious high-horse about "desecration" because the bodies were already dead and the charges against CW reflect that fact.

I seriously doubt a jury will conclude guilt on first degree murder based only on the fact he concealed the bodies. The prosecutor must prove the charge of murder and concealment of the bodies is secondary and a lessor offense. JMO

I'm sure the jury will have much more than the method of disposal in order to come to the conclusion that he alone is guilty.

 

[NuttMegg]

Are you saying those of us who are appalled at the way he got rid of their bodies and think his doing so show his guilt are “on a religious high horse”? IMO It’s wishful thinking to think a jury will not consider this while making their decision. It’s also wishful thinking if you think concealing the bodies are “the only fact” pointing towards his guilt.

I often point out that he "desecrated" their bodies, with the crude oil and by leaving his wife's body partly open to predation from birds, rodents, other mammals. And we still don't know how he was able to shove those kids into a hole as small as the area the electric kettle on my counter takes up. I'm probably one of the least religious posters on this board. One of the meanings of desecration is to treat somebody or something disrespectfully, which is obviously what he did to people he "supposedly" loved. Thus hiding their bodies in a grotesque manner to buy time for himself to claim they left by themselves out the back door.

So he could start a new life with one of his APs.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Hello again Prime!

I noticed that as well - i think it is one of the moments where he accidentally spoke from visual memory

We meet again, mrjitty and exactly my thoughts.

 

[JudgeJudi]

CW ticks the following boxes for being a family annihilator

* Few family annihilators have a criminal record or were known to mental health services beforehand
* This is overwhelmingly a male crime
* 55% were in their thirties
* August was the most common month for family annihilator killings
* Just under half of all murders were committed over weekends, especially on a Sunday
* 71% were employed
* The majority of murders were found to take place in the home

The study refuted the idea that murderers may be unhappy or frustrated men with a long life history of failure.

81% of the men attempted suicide after the act.

Family breakup was the most common cause, accounting for 66% of cases.

Financial difficulties were the second most commonly cited motive.

“The family annihilator should be seen as a specific category of murderer, for a crime which appears to be increasing. To begin solving this problem the role of gender must be recognised, acknowledging that it is mainly men who will resort to this type of violence.”

Characteristics of Family Killers Revealed | Australasian Science Magazine

 

[Mark Morris]

Hi All—I haven’t been on in a while due to the fact that there hasn’t been anything new in this case, but peeked in with the news of the status hearing being moved up to Tuesday.

While I have very little legal literacy, this development seems important to me. When reading about a status conference in a criminal court case, it says: “A status hearing in a criminal case is a pre-trial conference made in an effort to resolve the case without it having to go to trial. It generally takes place with the judge, the prosecution, the defendant and the defendant's lawyer in attendance.”

I’ve included my reference below.

IF that’s the case here, IMO, there is absolutely *no way* the DA would agree to resolve this case (AKA make a plea deal) at this point in time if CW was guilty of murdering his children.

IF this is a plea, I think it has to mean that the autopsy (which prosecution wants sealed) and most likely the investigation (texts, interviews, forensics) contain damaging information that the DA & SW’s family don’t want out, and CW’s version of events is in fact what happened. I can’t see any other reason they’d offer a plea deal at this point, if that’s what this is.

MOO

What Is a Status Hearing in a Criminal Case?

Why would the Defense team enter a plea if the evidence in the autopsy/forensics/phones etc exonerate CWof killing the girls? Wouldn't Defense be happy to go to trial to prove CWs innocence and submit a request for a bond instead? MOO

 

[Colorado303]

Does anyone else think the AP may have given CW an ultimatum after learning SW returned to their home in Colorado after the NC trip?

I do.

Yep

 

[MerryB]

Why would the Defense team enter a plea if the evidence in the autopsy/forensics/phones etc exonerate CWof killing the girls? Wouldn't Defense be happy to go to trial to prove CWs innocence and submit a request for a bond instead? MOO

The Prosecution has asked the judge to block the release of the autopsy reports.

The Prosecution has asked to move the status hearing up to Nov 6.

The Defense has seemed willing to allow the release the autopsy and go to trial IMO. The Defense has filed a sealed pleading containing information protected by HIPAA in preparation for trial.

Seems to me like something is up.

SW’s family may not want the autopsy unsealed & other information getting out if this is the case. CW still has to be held accountable for SW’s murder and 3 counts of tampering with a deceased body.

A plea to 2nd degree murder & tampering with the bodies might assure he serves time for the crimes committed as well as keep disparaging information regarding SW private. Plus, a plea is still a “win” for the DA.

MOO

 

[Colorado303]

Probably ultimatum while she was in NC, and breakup on the Saturday night preceding the mass murder.

I suspect when SW was in NC the AP was under the impression they had already separated. I think her reappearance in CO made the AP realize CW had lied to her. I’m betting the AP accused him of lying and he denied it—made some excuse why SW was back in town (to pack up, etc) and the AP told him he damn well better not be lying, and if SW wasn’t gone for good in the next few days she would break up w/him.

 

[gitana1]

The delay is what interests me. I imagine she called and told him there was an issue.

I have never had a delay when they knew when the delay would be finished when they first announced, I have even been with a delay for ten hours before they made the announcement of the take off time,

Would he kill the children not knowing when her plane would be cleared for take off?

Maybe he killed them not knowing there would be a delay. And when there was one, he freaked, because he now has much less time to get rid of the bodies and stage the scene.

I can imagine him relentlessly texting her and checking the flight tracker online, freaking out wondering what would happen if she didn't make it home that night.

He was supposed to work that day. She would expect him to get childcare for them but how could he for two dead corpses?

That could explain why the scene wasn't so well staged. He had run out of time due to the delay.

 

[NuttMegg]

I suspect when SW was in NC the AP was under the impression they had already separated. I think her reappearance in CO made the AP realize CW had lied to her. I’m betting the AP accused him of lying and he denied it—made some excuse why SW was back in town (to pack up, etc) and the AP told him he damn well better not be lying, and if SW wasn’t gone for good in the next few days she would break up w/him.

It seems so logical. Then, as I mentioned before, it must have been a real slap in the face to the AP that he had to take care of the kids on what could have been a romantic weekend, had Shan'nan cared for the kids. I have read so many versions, has it been verified that he used a babysitter for the girls on Saturday night? If so, did the babysitter care for the kids in her house?

 

[gitana1]

The Prosecution has asked the judge to block the release of the autopsy reports.

The Prosecution has asked to move the status hearing up to Nov 6.

The Defense has seemed willing to allow the release the autopsy and go to trial IMO. The Defense has filed a sealed pleading containing information protected by HIPAA in preparation for trial.

Seems to me like something is up.

SW’s family may not want the autopsy unsealed & other information getting out if this is the case. CW still has to be held accountable for SW’s murder and 3 counts of tampering with a deceased body.

A plea to 2nd degree murder & tampering with the bodies might assure he serves time for the crimes committed as well as keep disparaging information regarding SW private. Plus, a plea is still a “win” for the DA.

MOO

Who said it was the state who asked for the hearing to be moved up?

That would be an absolute loss for the DA.

It's a fantastical conjecture, IMO and nothing suggests that would happen.

 

[Mark Morris]

The Prosecution has asked the judge to block the release of the autopsy reports.

The Prosecution has asked to move the status hearing up to Nov 6.

The Defense has seemed willing to allow the release the autopsy and go to trial IMO. The Defense has filed a sealed pleading containing information protected by HIPAA in preparation for trial.

Seems to me like something is up.

SW’s family may not want the autopsy unsealed & other information getting out if this is the case. CW still has to be held accountable for SW’s murder and 3 counts of tampering with a deceased body.

A plea to 2nd degree murder & tampering with the bodies might assure he serves time for the crimes committed as well as keep disparaging information regarding SW private. Plus, a plea is still a “win” for the DA.

MOO

Hi Bee, thanks for your response, here's MO.....
I can't see how Prosecution blocking release of the autopsy implies the results are unfavourable for the Prosecution? The results will be out in trial regardless. IMO. Are you actually saying that because the autopsy results favour the defense, Prosecution don't want them released? Really? As I see it, it's avoiding publising critical and sensitive information in a very high profile case. JMO

A plea of guilty to killing SW, to which he's already confessed isn't any kind of win to the DA IMO. That would mean that SW might be held accountable for the deaths of her daughters. I can't see the DA looking the family in the eye with that result, let alone celebrate it as any kind of "win".

I might be wrong, but the Judge suggested a date of October for the next hearing, when Defense said this may be too soon, the Judge wasn't available for another 4 or so weeks. Might it be that an opportunity became available and both parties were happy to proceed asap? But you may well be correct, something may well be up, we are about to find out.

All MOO

 

[Johnny1181]

Who said it was the state who asked for the hearing to be moved up?

That would be an absolute loss for the DA.

It's a fantastical conjecture, IMO and nothing suggests that would happen.

Agreed. IMO there is zero chance this is happening Tuesday or any day really.
In relation, do you know if a plea bargain would prevent evidence like the autopsy from being released? I didn't think this was the case.

 

[Best of What's Around]

The Prosecution has asked the judge to block the release of the autopsy reports.

The Prosecution has asked to move the status hearing up to Nov 6.

The Defense has seemed willing to allow the release the autopsy and go to trial IMO. The Defense has filed a sealed pleading containing information protected by HIPAA in preparation for trial.

Seems to me like something is up.

SW’s family may not want the autopsy unsealed & other information getting out if this is the case. CW still has to be held accountable for SW’s murder and 3 counts of tampering with a deceased body.

A plea to 2nd degree murder & tampering with the bodies might assure he serves time for the crimes committed as well as keep disparaging information regarding SW private. Plus, a plea is still a “win” for the DA.

MOO

How would a plea deal prevent the release of the autopsy report and any “disparaging” info about SW getting out? This sounds too rich even for a Lifetime movie IMO.