Identified! CA - Out-of-town family finds unidentified body in freezer of home they were staying at - Dec 23, 2023 - Mary Margaret Haxby-Jones

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
I've driven myself to that hospital ER a couple of times. The freezer house is only a few blocks away from the hospital. Close enough to get medical help right away.

Kaiser Medical Center and Hospital down the hill going towards Mission Gorge.
1703711868211.png

Just a side note-- This is right outside the hospital parking lot on Zion Ave. It looks like such a dangerous situation. That poor driver is risking his life to deliver a pkg. 1703712034493.png
 
Last edited:
Thank You for the replies regarding the ability for anyone to request their property be blurred on google. They must've responded quite quickly to the neighbor's request then.

Many of the houses look maintained, and have solar panels. IMO, it's a nice middle class neighborhood. I, too, noticed how overgrown the grass got at one time. Did someone become ill? More than one vehicle in the driveway makes me question how many people lived there; however, I'm not sure those vehicles were moved or driven, maybe it was somebody that liked working on cars.
RSBM
That, or they collected appliances and other scrap metal from curbsides, brought it home to cut up with an oxyacetylene torch (note yellow warning sign against the house), and take it to a scrapyard for cash. The pickup truck is perfectly suited for this, there are men (and sometimes couples) in Philly who do this the day or night before trash day, driving around collecting metal items people leave out.
MOO
 
My point is that if you and I can find it - so could a reporter, so there has to be a reason that such info is routinely left out of news articles unless it comes from LE or the Courts (just like here on WS).

JMO
In my area of the world, the name(s) of dead and injured are not printed or broadcast until after LE has notified the next of kin. It's a courtesy to keep people from learning bad news while driving and in such a traumatic way.
 
Could it be possible that the person, if they were frail, unwell or elderly, fell into the freezer. They may have been holding on to the lid which closed on top of them and they were either knocked out and/or too frail to push open the lld from inside

I don't recall ever hearing of a case where that happened, but is it possible.

Re the family visiting and why they looked into the freezer, could the power have gone off and they smelt something, though I guess most people would just think it was rotting food.
If this were the case, the body would have been immediately frozen, and it would be fairly easy to observe if there were traumatic injuries. But evidently, the body was not in good condition.
 
In my area of the world, the name(s) of dead and injured are not printed or broadcast until after LE has notified the next of kin. It's a courtesy to keep people from learning bad news while driving and in such a traumatic way.

I don't know where you are, but in my lifetime in California, local news policies have been all over the place. Right now, everything is on lock down and we get little information (and people complain). When I was a teen and young adult, we got all the gory details (and whatever names were known) very soon. Manson Family Murders are one example, but the EARONS/GSK case near my hometown was another. The details were in the paper, on the radio, on TV, etc.

Things go back and forth. Times change (I think it goes in waves and cycles). Interesting justification (so people don't learn bad news while driving - that would be awful, although people learn bad news in many traumatic ways, despite what journalist rules say - there's X/Twitter; etc)

I think waiting to notify next of kin is a good custom. However, that's LE policy - it doesn't have to bind reporters and their investigations. I mean, we here on WS go and sleuth things. I can't imagine that driving in a car (even with an all news channel) is going to result in something faster than a tweet, a text, an FB message, etc.

People are finding out anyway, is my point. I feel badly for LE, who have to try and stay ahead of all this (and somehow capture culprits and garner information while it's still available).

JMO
 
I wonder if law enforcement is going to wait on announcing any details on the victim until the forensics come back from the lab.

They may "know" who the person is, but if the body was too badly decomposed for a visual ID, they may want scientific confirmation before making a public statement.
 
How possible is this that it could be body parts from the nearby Kaiser? Long shot but curious

I would say it’s highly unlikely. But I suppose stranger things have happened. If it’s not a family member, I could imagine it’s the result of criminal activity because of how unkempt the front of the house is.
JMO
 
I wonder if law enforcement is going to wait on announcing any details on the victim until the forensics come back from the lab.

They may "know" who the person is, but if the body was too badly decomposed for a visual ID, they may want scientific confirmation before making a public statement.
I expect that they will wait until they have a positive ID using dental records or…
 
I wonder if law enforcement is going to wait on announcing any details on the victim until the forensics come back from the lab.

They may "know" who the person is, but if the body was too badly decomposed for a visual ID, they may want scientific confirmation before making a public statement.

And that's what has changed. If, as some here have proposed, the neighbors knew who was living there (and obviously, the family does), it's not such a big mystery. In the past, a Coroner would have made a preliminary identification (which is permitted under state and US law, but of course attempts were made to find next of kin). It's pretty easy in this case to find the name of a woman who lived at that house, the name of her husband and even the possible names of some of her family members.

LE knows more than what the public can know by public search engines. But now, apparently, journalists, the public and LE are attempting to be on the same page. Indeed, neighbors are shielding their faces and not wanting interviews in many places.

I'm very curious how they will find DNA to match to the DNA of the body. Hopefully, dental records are still valid (but not DNA), but we do see an increasing amount of wait time (for family members too, not just we the public) as dental records are not as certain as DNA. I hope the family members don't have to provide DNA (it's a difficult process when a family member is dead - not everyone is up to being part of an investigation). Hopefully DNA plus Dental will be enough. This is all expensive stuff. I expect it to come to pass that finding DNA on someone's hair brush is questioned, because, well, how do we know the dead person and the hairbrush person are the same person?

(For me, if the DNA matches a family member of someone living at that address, it's enough - otherwise, the thousands of missing person and murder cases lose resources while we apply ever more technical ways of IDing the dead).

My guess is that the body is that of the woman who lived in that house, whose family members came to visit. They already know the worst - I hope they are given certainty soon. If it's a crime (which it appears to be), then it is of wider public interest.

JMO
 

Defrosting can take up to a week…

This is a 2010 article. I think a female British forensic pathologist also published an autobiography, part of which talks about bodies found in a freezer, but I can’t currently remember who the author is.
 
I wonder if the “out-of-town” family was there because the relative who owned the house had recently died (or gone to a nursing home) and family came in from out of town to go through their stuff ? It seems strange that the owner would willingly let their family members stay there knowing they might open that freezer.
Maybe the out of town relatives brought the body with them?
Is laughing permitted on WS?
I'm thinking of Chevy Chase "Vacation" and his Aunt Edna .
 
I don't know where you are, but in my lifetime in California, local news policies have been all over the place. Right now, everything is on lock down and we get little information (and people complain). When I was a teen and young adult, we got all the gory details (and whatever names were known) very soon. Manson Family Murders are one example, but the EARONS/GSK case near my hometown was another. The details were in the paper, on the radio, on TV, etc.

Things go back and forth. Times change (I think it goes in waves and cycles). Interesting justification (so people don't learn bad news while driving - that would be awful, although people learn bad news in many traumatic ways, despite what journalist rules say - there's X/Twitter; etc)

I think waiting to notify next of kin is a good custom. However, that's LE policy - it doesn't have to bind reporters and their investigations. I mean, we here on WS go and sleuth things. I can't imagine that driving in a car (even with an all news channel) is going to result in something faster than a tweet, a text, an FB message, etc.

People are finding out anyway, is my point. I feel badly for LE, who have to try and stay ahead of all this (and somehow capture culprits and garner information while it's still available).

JMO
Facebook groups changed MANY things. Instead of waiting for print or radio news, people raced to the town's Facebook group and had all the details sooner.

The "pending notification of next of kin" was a long-standing spirit of cooperation that existed between LE and the "powers that be". Now, often the reporters had all the names and info, just waiting to release it when the boss said it was ok. Reporters were on the phone, gathering the information in preparation of release time, but there was a definite concerted cooperation among the multiple agencies.

Now, from my perspective, looking back, I suspect "the hold to release" agreement likely covered other occasions that might have tended to be embarrassing or election-losing for certain people in power. They were covering and helping to cover each other's backsides. The editor I worked for had the absolute integrity he would NEVER have hidden a name - even for his own family. It might be briefly held, but not lost/hidden. The editor before and before that??? Can't say for sure.
 
...My guess is that the body is that of the woman who lived in that house, whose family members came to visit. They already know the worst - I hope they are given certainty soon. If it's a crime (which it appears to be), then it is of wider public interest.
Today's top local news is about a couple found dead in front of a casino, a suspected murder / suicide. It took over the mystery crime in our news today. Didn't see any updates of the body in the freezer.

I imagine a male lived in that house with the woman. Don't you? Not to be sexist, but all those cars in the driveway make me think maybe a male lived there too.

There's got to be a story that goes along with the woman found in the freezer. We don't know the story yet. Now this is all my own imagined scenarios. Suppose an elderly couple lived there, perhaps it was a illness death, or maybe mercy killing, maybe the spouse had dementia. Or perhaps there was a son (or a daughter) living there, could've had an addiction problem or a mental illness. There was an argument, a fatal blow. It stands to reason, collecting the deceased's retirement benefits which are probably direct deposited could be a reason not to report a death.

Now, these relatives showing up have some answers to many of our questions. Did they have an inkling something wasn't right before arriving? I'm wondering-- if they spoke with someone or did they just show up like for the annual Christmas gathering or something?

Wished the news interviewed any neighbors that knew the residents of that house. Want to know how many people lived there, and if the any neighbors noticed seeing or not seeing the residents of that house lately. Well, waiting for some facts and the story behind this mystery.

Check for updates:
 
Last edited:
I wonder if he was just too tired -- for the finders to think the body is female, the man must have placed the woman into the freezer. How was there not a missing person?

She died, he eventually got around to calling the kids, no one could come in to handle things right then. Why go to all the expense and effort of a funeral when no one could be there?

He didn't have too long himself. They could just have a double funeral when the kids could be there. So, into the empty freezer with the body of wife/mother and his life inched along. Until it didn't. Now, since he'd already told them mother was gone, perhaps he'd also mentioned a private graveside or something. Without having any idea Dad was hoping for a double funeral, the kids took a few days from work, have the ceremony and determined to return over Christmas to clear out the house and take care of everything. That's the time of year when work is always slow and they could take the time away. Unfortunately, with Dad no longer in the home, they'd seen no reason to leave the electric, water, etc. running.

If it's an elderly couple, I'm going to vote for he was too tired and lacked the energy to deal with everything.
 
I agree with others about someone looking to continue receiving benefits, tax breaks on the property, access earnings, etc. despite the death of the true recipient; a female co resident.

My guess it’s an adult son living in his probably childhood home.
Noticeable in many older neighborhoods in SD is the difference between legacy properties and the shiny new homeowners.
The tall weeds and assorted stuff, being rundown comparatively, is some indication of a casual subsequent generation.

I did wonder:
If maybe the, for example, son has informed other family of a death but never actually called authorities or otherwise officially reported it and then decided to save some money on services or cremation and avoiding the undesirable legal work utilized the freezer as a convenient and spacious alternative.

These days there are often casual gatherings of remembrance without funeral homes or viewings of the deceased.
The death and the placement may have been separated by time spent in indecision or avoidance until coming up with the freezer solution.

I would have thought there would be an immediate arrest in this scenario but maybe it was pleaded that it was a natural death or the victim was known to be terminal so the charges need to be determined?
For why a person would do this and then have out of town family to visit in the home I guess there's something not right to start with so further lack of awareness wouldn’t be unexpected.

all imo
 
I agree with others about someone looking to continue receiving benefits, tax breaks on the property, access earnings, etc. despite the death of the true recipient; a female co resident.

My guess it’s an adult son living in his probably childhood home.
Noticeable in many older neighborhoods in SD is the difference between legacy properties and the shiny new homeowners.
The tall weeds and assorted stuff, being rundown comparatively, is some indication of a casual subsequent generation.

I did wonder:
If maybe the, for example, son has informed other family of a death but never actually called authorities or otherwise officially reported it and then decided to save some money on services or cremation and avoiding the undesirable legal work utilized the freezer as a convenient and spacious alternative.

These days there are often casual gatherings of remembrance without funeral homes or viewings of the deceased.
The death and the placement may have been separated by time spent in indecision or avoidance until coming up with the freezer solution.

I would have thought there would be an immediate arrest in this scenario but maybe it was pleaded that it was a natural death or the victim was known to be terminal so the charges need to be determined?
For why a person would do this and then have out of town family to visit in the home I guess there's something not right to start with so further lack of awareness wouldn’t be unexpected.

all imo
While anything is possible, I think the scenario you suggest is the most likely. As far as why the death wasn't reported, the most likely scenarios to me are: (1) Co resident may be of diminished capacity, and didn't know what to do (2) Hiding death to continue to collect benefits (3) Didn't have the money for burial / cremation (4) Homicide

Of the above suggestions, #2 seems most probable. Unless the living relative responsible for this act is mentally incompetent, IWT, at minimum, this would be desecration/abuse of a corpse.

Amateur opinion and speculation
 
Facebook groups changed MANY things. Instead of waiting for print or radio news, people raced to the town's Facebook group and had all the details sooner.

The "pending notification of next of kin" was a long-standing spirit of cooperation that existed between LE and the "powers that be". Now, often the reporters had all the names and info, just waiting to release it when the boss said it was ok. Reporters were on the phone, gathering the information in preparation of release time, but there was a definite concerted cooperation among the multiple agencies.

Now, from my perspective, looking back, I suspect "the hold to release" agreement likely covered other occasions that might have tended to be embarrassing or election-losing for certain people in power. They were covering and helping to cover each other's backsides. The editor I worked for had the absolute integrity he would NEVER have hidden a name - even for his own family. It might be briefly held, but not lost/hidden. The editor before and before that??? Can't say for sure.

Where I grew up (small town), that happened anyway.

There is a café in that town where men gather from about 5-6 am onward, police among them. We lived across the street from a policeman. Policemen, in those days, said a lot of what they knew. I think it helped deter crime - because, after all, the criminals were local, with local cultural patterns. Maybe it's just because I have known these people a long time, I have to say that they still say a lot that they wouldn't say directly to a TV camera (the only kind of reporter seen recently in that small town, which was in the news due to having, at the time, California's largest wildfire pass through).

The notification of next of kin kept things out of the papers, but not out of the neighborhood grapevine. If people heard shots or screaming, they talked about it. If ambulances and police came, people talked (and I believe this is especially healthy for those who are secondary victims). Indeed, there was a DV incident in a neighborhood local to me and NextDoor provided many, many details (including how many other times LE was called to that address).

Your last paragraph is pure gold. My editor would never have hidden a name (or address) either (I was once a cub reporter for the small town paper). But today, it's all on SM and not in the police blotter, making the police look inept (judging by public opinion). And the paper thrived.

Something is changing. And FB and X are now somehow...press? Oh, how I looked up to journalists and wanted to be one. Now I get my local news mostly from "citizen journalists."

The major papers are now behind paywalls. Tsk. Tsk.

We had a double homicide and a murder-suicide on our block in my hometown. We had a negligent drowning of a 2 year old on my block (we might post those stories on WS today). We had a few suicides in the town and those were definitely censored, out of courtesy to the family. We all knew a great deal, through local talk, about each of these events. No one needed social media to outpace newspaper reporting. Everyone raced to the telephone (and there were party lines up until I was in my late teens, so we kids learned a heckuva lot). My dad would jump in his car and go down to that café for details. My uncle practically lived in that café (and the man who ran the café was a great and rapid distributor of detailed knowledge about crime, death, illness, accidents, weddings, funerals and births). Didn't need SM to find out all that went on in our community - but of course, now, we find out about other people's communities as well. No one checked with LE or anyone else before distributing information, if they had it. And a lot of it was fairly accurate.

Car accident victims (including fatalities) were reported on right away. One big difference was that everyone knew most everyone else, within a couple of degrees. So when my cousin died in a car crash, discovered at 3 am, the policeman who first arrived knew my uncle and sent someone up to his house immediately. My cousin's death was reported in that afternoon's local newspaper.
 
I've driven myself to that hospital ER a couple of times. The freezer house is only a few blocks away from the hospital. Close enough to get medical help right away.

Kaiser Medical Center and Hospital down the hill going towards Mission Gorge.
View attachment 470511

Just a side note-- This is right outside the hospital parking lot on Zion Ave. It looks like such a dangerous situation. That poor driver is risking his life to deliver
Even closer than my BIL. I expect you’ll be taking lots of walks checking it out. ;-)
It is so strange! I see that house nearly every single day because my kids elementary school is literally across the street from it. The last time a true crime mainstream media worthy event happened in our neighborhood was back in 2016 when Krystal Mitchell was murdered in an apartment complex here. So glad that McLeod was finally captured recently for that one.

Edit- sorry I don’t know why it quoted you too Curious Me!
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
113
Guests online
2,578
Total visitors
2,691

Forum statistics

Threads
603,247
Messages
18,153,948
Members
231,682
Latest member
Sleutherine
Back
Top