If you look at it logically it's very clear who did it!

[Swirlz]

The brother struck her over the head out of impulsive anger for whatever reason and used his boy scout knowledge of toggle ropes to drag her down into the basement in a childish attempt to hide what he had done as kids often do. The process of dragging cut off blood supply to her brain which caused her death. He potentially used a piece of train track to try and wake her up leaving the marks on her body. One or both parents woke up and found out what was going on, Betsy had a cancer scare (lost a daughter and potentially now a son institutionalised) and the father had a reputation to lose, both cover for the son.

I reckon both parents knew Burke to be somewhat of a loose screw (there were several 'my son needs help' type books in the house, the scatolia issue, and he had struck JB with a gold club once before leaving a scar) so they weren't completely surprised by that nights events imo.

There were no drag marks on JonBenet's body and the cord around her neck is in a perfect horizontal which is not the position the cord would've ended up in if she'd been dragged. Burke could easily have dragged her by an arm or leg.

The books often referred to on R's shelf were conservative Christian parenting books that didn't address violent or aggressive behaviors in children.

There's a single incident that can be sourced of Burke getting poop on something, he was six at the time.

He did strike JonBenet with a golf club once when he was 7. She didn't have a permanent scar. By all but one account it was an accident.

 

[Swirlz]

Then there is BR...who acted indifferent and removed from the chaos. He didn't even question why the police were there that night. No tears, no fear, and wanted to play his XBOX. The loss of his sister did not seem to affect him and even in later interviews, like Dr. Phil, he projected no anger toward the killer.

To me, it still points to the parents covering up for their son's crime.
PR, barely hanging on and JR, who was aloof and absent most of the time anyway, more able to handle it.

According to the police report, Burke was crying as he was being led from the house that night.

Of course he didn't question why the police were there, that's what kids who've been exposed to or who have experienced abuse do; they shut up, they don't ask, they hope it'll all go away.

He told the child psychologist that if he had any secrets he wouldn't tell her because then they wouldn't be secrets anymore. Don't show emotion, don't ask, keep the secret hidden.

 

[Gunther Toody]

According to the police report, Burke was crying as he was being led from the house that night.

Of course he didn't question why the police were there, that's what kids who've been exposed to or who have experienced abuse do; they shut up, they don't ask, they hope it'll all go away.

He told the child psychologist that if he had any secrets he wouldn't tell her because then they wouldn't be secrets anymore. Don't show emotion, don't ask, keep the secret hidden.

Or...have the makings of a sociopath.

 

[Officer Dibble]

It is a conundrum, isn't it?

I absolutely believe that the SA is a key component to the story. As to why they did not take her to the hospital, it is also a possibility that they did not realize she was still alive, at least at first. I think it also speaks to the fact that whatever it was that happened, they did not want it to be known to anyone. My personal opinion is that the garroting was a part of the cover up for the SA, not the head blow, to make it look like someone was performing EA on her. Then they could say that the SA happened only that night. We know that Dr. Beuf did not suspect that SA was happening. There are often not obvious signs that someone, even a physician would recognize unless an extensive internal exam was done. We know that he did not perform such an exam on JBR, so it's possible that they thought it could be hidden, or covered up.

I think the lack of scalp laceration which would have meant visible bleeding is due to what was used to hit her. Could not have been anything with sharp edges, the golf club is a possibility especially if it were a wood. I recall that JR asked PR's sister to retrieve his golf clubs from the house when she was allowed to remove some things. LE did not allow that, but it does beg the question why would he want those out of the house? It wasn't the time of year to play golf, and what grieving father would want to anyway?

BBM. That is very interesting to know that. Unless something was inside the bottom of the bag? JMO MOO

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

BBM. That is very interesting to know that. Unless something was inside the bottom of the bag? JMO MOO

I would think with the velocity required to do that much damage, a golf club would leave a surface wound even if small. I'm thinking something more blunt..

 

[Meara]

I would think with the velocity required to do that much damage, a golf club would leave a surface wound even if small. I'm thinking something more blunt..

For you and anyone else interested in this question, I suggest otg's golf club thread. It's worth finding the discussion about injuries created by low velocity/high impact vs. high velocity/low impact.

JonBenet's Skull Fractures: The Weapon

I was asked to copy a thread here at WS that I started at FFJ, so WS'ers not registered there can comment. So, I'm not sure how complicated it will be (setting each of the links), or how long it will take, but bear with me and I'll start it here. .

www.websleuths.com

 

[Gunther Toody]

Maybe not everyone is aware that the Ramsey's were in fact indicted and charged with one count of Child Abuse Resulting in Death and one count of Accessory to a Crime.

They were never exonerated.
The prosecutor chose not to pursue the indictments.

JonBenet Ramsey Update: Judge releases 1999 indictments of John and Patsy Ramsey

Newly released documents show that a grand jury voted in 1999 to indict John and Patricia Ramsey on charges of child abuse and being an accessory to a crime related to their daughter's 1996 death

www.cbsnews.com

A grand jury voted in 1999 to charge JonBenet Ramsey's parents with crimes related to their 6-year-old daughter's death, according to documents released Friday morning. A judge ordered the release as the result of a lawsuit brought by a Colorado journalist and the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press.

The documents released Friday show that the grand jury voted to charge both John and Patsy Ramsey with one count of Child Abuse Resulting in Death and one count of Accessory to a Crime. The grand jury issued two separate, but identical indictments for each parent. They state:

On or between Dec. 25 and Dec. 26, 1996 in Boulder County, Colo., John Bennett Ramsey did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen.

And:

On or between Dec. 25 and Dec. 26, 1996 in Boulder County, Colo., John Bennett Ramsey did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death

 

[CloudedTruth]

Maybe not everyone is aware that the Ramsey's were in fact indicted and charged with one count of Child Abuse Resulting in Death and one count of Accessory to a Crime.

They were never exonerated.
The prosecutor chose not to pursue the indictments.

JonBenet Ramsey Update: Judge releases 1999 indictments of John and Patsy Ramsey

Newly released documents show that a grand jury voted in 1999 to indict John and Patricia Ramsey on charges of child abuse and being an accessory to a crime related to their daughter's 1996 death

www.cbsnews.com

A grand jury voted in 1999 to charge JonBenet Ramsey's parents with crimes related to their 6-year-old daughter's death, according to documents released Friday morning. A judge ordered the release as the result of a lawsuit brought by a Colorado journalist and the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press.

The documents released Friday show that the grand jury voted to charge both John and Patsy Ramsey with one count of Child Abuse Resulting in Death and one count of Accessory to a Crime. The grand jury issued two separate, but identical indictments for each parent. They state:

On or between Dec. 25 and Dec. 26, 1996 in Boulder County, Colo., John Bennett Ramsey did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen.

And:

On or between Dec. 25 and Dec. 26, 1996 in Boulder County, Colo., John Bennett Ramsey did unlawfully, knowingly and feloniously render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of Murder in the First Degree and Child Abuse Resulting in Death

Yes.

I think it's also important to note that unlike the vast majority of Grand Juries, the point of which is for the prosecution to present their evidence in order for that GJ to decide if the evidence is sufficient for indictment, that this GJ included testimony from key figures on the defense side who presented the intruder theory. That is highly unusual. It could be said that it may very well be the closest this case will ever come to an actual trial, and the evidence was found to be sufficient to order two indictments of both parents. That is significant. What the GJ could not determine however, was who actually of the two was the guilty party for the murder, and had expressed the hope that would come into focus at a trial. DA Hunter then decided he did not think he could prove who was the guilty party at trial so famously refused to sign the indictments and prosecute. He may very well have been correct in his assessment, although it should also be pointed out that he was a DA who had a reputation for not wanting to prosecute. He preferred the route of plea bargaining, and had resisted for months the plea from the BPD to convene a GJ.

At the time of his announcement about not prosecuting this case, he declined to disclose that the GJ had indeed issued two indictments. This information was not made public until several years later, and only as the result of a judge's order to release the documents detailing the indictments as the result of a lawsuit brought by a Colorado journalist and the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press.

Adding to the controversies surrounding DA Hunter were his penchant for speaking to the press and making questionable comments about certain people, notably Fleet White and his father with regard to accusations made by a woman named Nancy Krebs. Ms. Krebs had at one time accused the Whites of sexual abuse during the time they all lived in California, as well as being part of a pedophile ring in Boulder and throwing violent sex parties. She also accused JR of rape and sodomy, however Hunter for whatever reason chose not to speak about that publicly, aiming his comments instead at the Whites and telling the Boulder Camera that he found Krebs to be "very believable". Krebs had mental problems and credibility issues. It's just bizarre that Hunter would publicly comment on any of that.

There has always been talk of how certain information was leaked during the investigation. It was determined that Hunter and the DA's office was responsible for those leaks, which were wrongly attributed to and and blamed on the Boulder PD. Lou Smit was aware of this and was critical of Hunter's role in the leaks. In one interview that Hunter gave he had the audacity to criticize the "tabloid frenzy" that surrounded the case, but in the same interview admitted that he had engaged in what he termed was " very open communication" with several tabloid reporters from the Globe. A secretly taped conversation at one point revealed that Hunter had been speaking with a Globe reporter named Jeff Shapiro at least every other day, giving him confidential evidentiary information, and asking him to investigate members of the Boulder PD to publicly discredit them. He did a lot of inappropriate meddling and planting false and damaging stories in the media about certain people involved in the case. There are many more instances of his inappropriate actions involving this case. Abuse of power?

And one final tidbit about DA Hunter. In October of 2012 he signed an affidavit that stated BR was not a suspect. Leaked documents later revealed that Ramsey attorney Lin Wood had written the affidavit for Hunter.

 

[Gigiky]

So, I am having a lazy day today due to allergies. I decided to watch a movie and came across a Doc. called. JonBenet's Mother: Victim or Killer (2016) on Tubi. If you have not seen it you should check it out. I have never seen it and found it very interesting. It has sent me down a rabbit hole because I have had a theory for many years but I do not know if I would be allowed to post it on here. But watching this Doc gave me chills at one point when they start talking about investigator Lou Smiths findings and his Intruder theory. I found it very plausible.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

So, I am having a lazy day today due to allergies. I decided to watch a movie and came across a Doc. called. JonBenet's Mother: Victim or Killer (2016) on Tubi. If you have not seen it you should check it out. I have never seen it and found it very interesting. It has sent me down a rabbit hole because I have had a theory for many years but I do not know if I would be allowed to post it on here. But watching this Doc gave me chills at one point when they start talking about investigator Lou Smiths findings and his Intruder theory. I found it very plausible.

There was no intruder. But we would like to hear your theory. Ask a moderator if in doubt.

 

[Meara]

So, I am having a lazy day today due to allergies. I decided to watch a movie and came across a Doc. called. JonBenet's Mother: Victim or Killer (2016) on Tubi. If you have not seen it you should check it out. I have never seen it and found it very interesting. It has sent me down a rabbit hole because I have had a theory for many years but I do not know if I would be allowed to post it on here. But watching this Doc gave me chills at one point when they start talking about investigator Lou Smiths findings and his Intruder theory. I found it very plausible.

Can you post a link to the video?

 

[Gigiky]

Sorry, I am having trouble posting a link. The full documentary is available on free moving steaming site TUBI.

 

[Gigiky]

I am sorry Rain on My Parade. I did not realize there had been absolute proof established that there was not an intruder.

 

[Meara]

Sorry, I am having trouble posting a link. The full documentary is available on free moving steaming site TUBI.

Thank you; no problem!

For anyone interested, the site is tubitv.com.
Watch Free TV & Movies Online | Stream Full Length Videos | Tubi

It requires you to sign in.

Once you're signed in, you can search "jonbenet" or go to:
JonBenét's Mother: Victim or Killer? (2016)

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I am sorry Rain on My Parade. I did not realize there had been absolute proof established that there was not an intruder.

No need for apologies. This is an open discussion. Maybe I should have said there is no evidence of an intruder and a lot of evidence that points to all members of the family.

 

[proust20]

The Rs themselves never developed a plausible IDI theory. LS was brought in to help in this regard. The indictments of the parents by the GJ indicate that they did not find his speculation to be convincing.

 

[DeDee]

So, I am having a lazy day today due to allergies. I decided to watch a movie and came across a Doc. called. JonBenet's Mother: Victim or Killer (2016) on Tubi. If you have not seen it you should check it out. I have never seen it and found it very interesting. It has sent me down a rabbit hole because I have had a theory for many years but I do not know if I would be allowed to post it on here. But watching this Doc gave me chills at one point when they start talking about investigator Lou Smiths findings and his Intruder theory. I found it very plausible.

Victim. Final answer.

 

[DeDee]

JonBenet Ramsey is the reason I joined Websleuths in 2013. I hung out reading on Topix and FFJ, too, before joining. Bought most of the books about the case. Developed a slight crush for a certain Town Marshal. Vacationed at Chautauqua Park in Boulder for a week. Hung out in Charlevoix for a while but did not ride the Ferry over to Beaver Island.

Lou Smit, under oath, in Wolf v. Ramsey (01.09.02):


"Lou Smit: There are animal hairs that are found. There is a supposed beaver hair that is on the duct tape. There are also animal hairs found on her hand.

Lin Wood: On JonBenet's hand?

Smit: On JonBenet's hand.

Wood: Sourced to any item in the house or any individual in the house?

Smit: Sourced to no animal in the house or any item in the house.

Wood: Any effort made to try to ascertain whether there was any beaver hair or other type of animal hairs in the house since the initial days of investigation by the Boulder Police Department?

Smit: Yes. When we were at the Ramsey residence in the summer of 1997, Detective Ainsworth did actually take tape and taped the floors and all of the closets of the Ramsey home to see if there was any source in the closets of any type of animal hair, and he found none. Also the animal hairs were dark in color, brown and dark in color.

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

I don't recall ever hearing an estimated time of death. I am fairly certain they haven't released it. I never see it referenced anywhere. If they were to release that, I think it it would put the timeline into perspective of who was where in the house and narrow down theories. Who else thinks we would know who did it with that information?

 

[Andreee]

JonBenet Ramsey is the reason I joined Websleuths in 2013. I hung out reading on Topix and FFJ, too, before joining. Bought most of the books about the case. Developed a slight crush for a certain Town Marshal. Vacationed at Chautauqua Park in Boulder for a week. Hung out in Charlevoix for a while but did not ride the Ferry over to Beaver Island.

Lou Smit, under oath, in Wolf v. Ramsey (01.09.02):


"Lou Smit: There are animal hairs that are found. There is a supposed beaver hair that is on the duct tape. There are also animal hairs found on her hand.

Lin Wood: On JonBenet's hand?

Smit: On JonBenet's hand.

Wood: Sourced to any item in the house or any individual in the house?

Smit: Sourced to no animal in the house or any item in the house.

Wood: Any effort made to try to ascertain whether there was any beaver hair or other type of animal hairs in the house since the initial days of investigation by the Boulder Police Department?

Smit: Yes. When we were at the Ramsey residence in the summer of 1997, Detective Ainsworth did actually take tape and taped the floors and all of the closets of the Ramsey home to see if there was any source in the closets of any type of animal hair, and he found none. Also the animal hairs were dark in color, brown and dark in color.

I had never heard that before! How odd, beaver hair. I wonder if they could have been mistaken and that the hairs were all dog hairs, perhaps from a pet at the place they were visiting earlier that evening. Or an old beaver fur coat or a taxidermy item at the place. Or from a fur hat or similar from their own house. I guess the paintbrush was ruled out as the source of the hairs. But maybe another one that was disposed of.