GUILTY Australia - J 32 y.o. Justin Stein, charged w/ murder of 9 y.o. Charlise Mutten, Mt Wilson, 13 January 2022 #3

[katydid23]

I'm sorry? On 14 January Annemie puzzles with police about the identity of the auction agent with whom Charlise was, according to Justin, left throughout 12 January, and whether or not this story "adds up". Now she remembers hearing Charlise's voice on the phone in the background in the early evening of 12 January. If she heard Charlise in the evening then the auction agent had nothing to do with it. It doesn't make any sense that she didn't make that point at once.

I haven't read through her testimony yet---but I will say that the witness that I will find least credible, in terms of giving an alibi, is the suspect's wife or mother.

Moms are very motivated to lie to protect their children. Denial is very strong.

 

[discostu]

Annemie is the only person I'm aware of that has mentioned KM being aggressive toward CM which I find interesting. KM admitted when she was on the stand that she was hormonal and her emotions were "very strong" at the time but others who given testimony so far have said she and CM had a "very loving and affectionate", "unconditional" and "exceptional" relationship..

I don't believe a word she says and I honestly don't think she does either, her story doesn't make sense. If JS picked up KM and CM from the caravan park and then went to Sydney, she obviously would have been with them all day, in which case why did JS send a text about her being sick and staying with the mysterious auction lady..? moo

 

[SouthAussie]

I haven't read through her testimony yet---but I will say that the witness that I will find least credible, in terms of giving an alibi, is the suspect's wife or mother.

Moms are very motivated to lie to protect their children. Denial is very strong.

Her other son also runs/ran Wildenstein as a wedding venue, so she has a double motivation.

imo

 

[katydid23]

Her other son also runs/ran Wildenstein as a wedding venue, so she has a double motivation.

imo

Right. And her phone conversation where she seemed more upset that the child may have been killed ON HER PROPERTY than that the child was murdered , won't make her too popular with the jury, imo.

 

[JLZ]

Annemie is the only person I'm aware of that has mentioned KM being aggressive toward CM which I find interesting. KM admitted when she was on the stand that she was hormonal and her emotions were "very strong" at the time but others who given testimony so far have said she and CM had a "very loving and affectionate", "unconditional" and "exceptional" relationship..

I don't believe a word she says and I honestly don't think she does either, her story doesn't make sense. If JS picked up KM and CM from the caravan park and then went to Sydney, she obviously would have been with them all day, in which case why did JS send a text about her being sick and staying with the mysterious auction lady..? moo

But I wonder if the content of the texts was saved or retrievable, as opposed to the metadata.

 

[discostu]

But I wonder if the content of the texts was saved or retrievable, as opposed to the metadata.

They’ve already shown the texts that JS sent the night he was with CM and the morning after when he was leaving her to pick up KM from the caravan park. Is that what you mean?

 

[SouthAussie]

But I wonder if the content of the texts was saved or retrievable, as opposed to the metadata.

I have the impression that Kallista's actual phone revealed the text messages, as opposed to metadata obtained from telcos. Only because the police could see she had searched online for nearby hospitals, so she could call them and see if Charlise had been taken to hospital by the (imaginary) real estate lady.

Jury hears bombshell text messages sent by alleged killer's mum

The mother of murdered schoolgirl Charlise Mutten had sex in a park with the man accused of murdering her daughter before googling symptoms of a grisly sexually transmitted disease, a court heard.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[discostu]

Right. And her phone conversation where she seemed more upset that the child may have been killed ON HER PROPERTY than that the child was murdered , won't make her too popular with the jury, imo.

It’s pretty messed up. Between this and her obvious distaste for KM generally I expect she’d say anything to protect her own interests. moo

 

[JLZ]

I have the impression that Kallista's actual phone revealed the text messages, as opposed to metadata obtained from telcos. Only because the police could see she had searched online for nearby hospitals, so she could call them and see if Charlise had been taken to hospital by the (imaginary) real estate lady.

Jury hears bombshell text messages sent by alleged killer's mum

The mother of murdered schoolgirl Charlise Mutten had sex in a park with the man accused of murdering her daughter before googling symptoms of a grisly sexually transmitted disease, a court heard.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So long as it's not just the metadata saying a text was sent between these numbers at such-and-such a time. And then they each remember the texts said different things.

I think the later texts were saved. I'd like to be sure about that one where he said Charlise was sick and staying in bed.

 

[discostu]

So long as it's not just the metadata saying a text was sent between these numbers at such-and-such a time. And then they each remember the texts said different things.

I think the later texts were saved. I'd like to be sure about that one where he said Charlise was sick and staying in bed.

This article references a text sent to KM on Jan 11:

Ms Mutten messaged her fiance twice asking if they had arrived home safe.

At 8.20pm he replied: “Hey bubs, sorry left my phone in the car … looked inside for it … I’m just cooking up some chicken, Charsy is watching TV and playing with balloons.”

And then another sent the next morning before he left CM to collect KM:

The 33-year-old sent a text to Ms Mutten at 10.06am telling her that Charlise was “wrecked” and staying in bed because she was unwell.

I expect that police would have asked about this stuff as soon as they were called to the property on the 14th, so I would say they have the actual text transcripts rather than just metadata etc.

 

[JLZ]

This article references a text sent to KM on Jan 11:

Ms Mutten messaged her fiance twice asking if they had arrived home safe.

At 8.20pm he replied: “Hey bubs, sorry left my phone in the car … looked inside for it … I’m just cooking up some chicken, Charsy is watching TV and playing with balloons.”

And then another sent the next morning before he left CM to collect KM:

The 33-year-old sent a text to Ms Mutten at 10.06am telling her that Charlise was “wrecked” and staying in bed because she was unwell.

I expect that police would have asked about this stuff as soon as they were called to the property on the 14th, so I would say they have the actual text transcripts rather than just metadata etc.

Yes, I know. I've got a worried feeling it's just K's recollection and the prosecution's contention though. Personally I have no trouble disbelieving J in anything he says. But I want it crystal clear for the jury that the auction lady was his invention not hers.

 

[Kemug]

The mother of the man accused of murdering Charlise Mutten has told a court she heard the schoolgirl's voice hours after police allege the nine-year-old was already dead.

Shock courtroom claim about schoolgirl's tragic death

The mother of accused murderer Justin Stein is testifying at his trial over death of schoolgirl Charlise Mutten, and said she heard schoolgirl's voice hours after police say child was dead.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Why does that not surprise me?

 

[Marg944]

Another case of not being surprised….​

​

Mother of alleged killer Justin Stein questioned his account of Charlise Mutten’s disappearance, murder trial hears​

“Annemie Stein told police her son’s story about leaving the nine-year-old with a stranger did not add up, NSW supreme court hears

She told the court her son called her on the morning of 13 January, when he said his car had gone and he needed the licence plate number so he could call the police.

“He was very, very, very distressed and hyperventilating,” she said.”

Mother of alleged killer Justin Stein questioned his account of Charlise Mutten’s disappearance, murder trial hears

Annemie Stein told police her son’s story about leaving the nine-year-old with a stranger did not add up, NSW supreme court hears

www.theguardian.com

 

[JLZ]

Why does that not surprise me?

That Annemie heard a dead person talking? She brought up K having occult interests. And I don't really like to comment on someone's appearance. But she looks the part better herself, perhaps.

 

[Wellsy]

Thanks for your insight, Wellsy. I've always felt that KM was seriously negligent but probably not culpable for her daughter's murder.

It's hard to understand how she could let her daughter go off alone with such an obviously untrustworthy man, let alone leave a reportedly ill daughter in the hands of an auctioneer to spend time sleeping with, and doing drugs with, her fiance. Any decent person would find this behaviour baffling and appalling. But the drugs, and KM's faith in a man she thought would be her daughter's stepfather, do go some way to explaining her negligence, even if it doesn't excuse it.

Ultimately, no matter how negligent KS was, the person to blame for the murder is the murderer. The shooting of a child at point-blank range isn't just something that happens to children when their mothers aren't careful.

I think if the police were going to prosecute KM for negligence they would have done so by now. They likely feel that the loss of her daughter is greater than any penalty they could impose.

Yes I never meant to minimise the negligence on KMs part- but I can absolutely see how this awful tragedy was built.
KM would've probably only reached out to others with jail time as they would be more accepting of her with her past.
The fact he came from such wealth would've made it more fantastical- remembering that nobody meets a partner in the first instance-who becomes violent immediately.
Perpetrators put their best charming self forward for weeks, months- sometimes years.

Nobody would continue a relationship if on your first date they said 'hi my name is Joe blogs and in about four weeks (or x amount of time) I'm going to break your nose, or slowly coerce you into submission.
Or more disturbing atrocities in this case.

Just edited to add- the rates of domestic violence also ramp up hugely in a male perp to female victim when the woman falls pregnant. So a lot of women have been in a relationship with no DV until they fall pregnant.

I have nothing to back this up in this case- it's just a fact and it's interesting that KM was 3-4 months pregnant with JS child at the time.

I really respect your acknowledgment and respect for my comment. Thank you

 

[discostu]

I'm sorry? On 14 January Annemie puzzles with police about the identity of the auction agent with whom Charlise was, according to Justin, left throughout 12 January, and whether or not this story "adds up". Now she remembers hearing Charlise's voice on the phone in the background in the early evening of 12 January. If she heard Charlise in the evening then the auction agent had nothing to do with it. It doesn't make any sense that she didn't make that point at once.

imo there’s literally no way she’s telling the truth about hearing a “cheeky” voice on the phone that she didn’t remember hearing when asked 2 days out from the conversation, but that she magically remembers 2-3 years later when she’s trying to back up one of the multiple stories her son has given about what happened..

 

[Marg944]

Crown case closes in Justin Stein trial over alleged murder of schoolgirl Charlise Mutten, defence case begins Monday​

“Prosecutors have closed their case against alleged murderer Justin Stein after hearing from multiple witnesses including the mother of slain schoolgirl Charlise Mutten, with the defence to open their case on Monday.”

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/mother-of-alleged-killer-justin-stein-knew-details-of-schoolgirl-charlise-muttens-death-jury-told/news-story/8dcbeebe34ec25f8fb3001426b281461

 

[SLouTh]

Crown case closes in Justin Stein trial over alleged murder of schoolgirl Charlise Mutten, defence case begins Monday​

“Prosecutors have closed their case against alleged murderer Justin Stein after hearing from multiple witnesses including the mother of slain schoolgirl Charlise Mutten, with the defence to open their case on Monday.”

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/mother-of-alleged-killer-justin-stein-knew-details-of-schoolgirl-charlise-muttens-death-jury-told/news-story/8dcbeebe34ec25f8fb3001426b281461

Did the prosecution present a ballistics report??? matching the bullet found (in Charlise) with the gun found ???? (Striations etc )
Maybe I missed it ????

IMO

 

[Marg944]

Did the prosecution present a ballistics report??? matching the bullet found (in Charlise) with the gun found ???? (Striations etc )
Maybe I missed it ????

IMO

I don’t think a ballistics report has been presented. When I attended the trial on 14th May, a DNA report on the rifle and some various items including balloons, drink bottle, etc, was presented as well as a forensic chemist report on gunshot residue. But I haven’t seen a ballistics report.

 

[Marg944]

Not impressed at all with the reporting that has not been forthcoming from Stein’s trial. Found this information in today’s news, but it is actually from court yesterday!

“The court briefly heard from Damien Cossey on Thursday, who the jury heard supplied Mr Stein and Ms Mutten with $50 of marijuana and $100 of methylamphetamine, as well as needles about midday on January 12.

Prosecutors allege Charlise was already dead by the time Mr Stein had collected Ms Mutten from the caravan park, 90 minutes away from Mount Wilson, before they travelled into Surry Hills and bought the drugs from Mr Cossey.

But the defence claims Charlise was still alive and in the back seat of the ute, lying down.

When asked whether he saw anyone in the car other than Mr Stein or Ms Mutten, he said: “No, I didn’t.”

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/courts-law/mother-of-alleged-killer-justin-stein-knew-details-of-schoolgirl-charlise-muttens-death-jury-told/news-story/8dcbeebe34ec25f8fb3001426b281461