Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat, 4 Feb 2024 *Arrest* #10

[HoneyBunOne]

Is it Aug 6 or Aug 8th?

I also thought 8th?

 

[Dotta]

View attachment 507010
Another look onto the tool, enlarged and turned for better recognizing. I still don't know, what it may be. It doesn't look like a torch ....

For me it looks like long Police LED torch.

JMO

 

[Trooper]

I also thought 8th?

This is the second time I have gone for the 6th and now I cannot remember if it is actually the 6th or the 8th.. I was wrong the first time , too!! could I do it twice?? probably. I think it was you who steered me away then, HB,,,?? maybe it was South Aussie.

 

[ProfCluezo]

This is the second time I have gone for the 6th and now I cannot remember if it is actually the 6th or the 8th.. I was wrong the first time , too!! could I do it twice?? probably. I think it was you who steered me away then, HB,,,?? maybe it was South

This is the second time I have gone for the 6th and now I cannot remember if it is actually the 6th or the 8th.. I was wrong the first time , too!! could I do it twice?? probably. I think it was you who steered me away then, HB,,,?? maybe it was South Aussie.

No drama, we are all human. Just didn’t want people getting disappointed they got the date wrong if anyone is planning to queue up for hours to be in the courtroom…

 

[Trooper]

PS has lived in this area all his life, as far as is known, so he would know the dam levels go up and down with the seasons. It just seems such a deviation, ( reckless, panicky,ultimately useless ( dam level stuff ) , such a frantic act, in comparison with the almost cool clueless crime of murder that preceded it.

 

[ProfCluezo]

PS has lived in this area all his life, as far as is known, so he would know the dam levels go up and down with the seasons. It just seems such a deviation, ( reckless, panicky,ultimately useless ( dam level stuff ) , sch a frantic act, in comparison with the almost cool clueless crime of murder that preceded it.

I agree completely there appear to be many inconsistencies with regards to the information we do have access to… but do we actually know the crime was committed in a “cool clueless” way…? Others have suggested more of a panicked “brain snap”? I personally don’t know which of these possibilities seems more likely… However regardless I absolutely agree the disposal of the phone in the periphery of a shallow and fluctuating-level-dam seems extraordinarily reckless, careless, and ill-considered, whoever the “tosser” was …

 

[Dotta]

"Police may face complex task to unlock Samantha Murphy’s phone.​

Investigators may face a complex task in unlocking Samantha Murphy’s iPhone
in the event her grieving family members do not know the passcode to her device."

Behind a paywall

New challenge in Samantha Murphy search

Investigators may face a complex task in unlocking Samantha Murphy’s iPhone in the event her grieving family members do not know the passcode to her device.

www-heraldsun-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Trooper]

Pretty cool to actually murder someone, a complete stranger, in broad daylight, and then remove in total all traces of your crime, in addition, dispose of the body, again without leaving any discernible traces , again, in broad daylight ( because people were searching by that afternoon ) and then to trip on home to the girlfriend and rock up for work on Monday, have a yarn to the blokes about a bit of motocross on Saturday, share the lunch sandwiches around...

And keep it up as Mr Cool Electrician for weeks.

Not crack a word, or a sign., Cool as. For a first time murderer, at 22.

And then, maintain silence for all this time. .. mum and dad having to leave home, the sisters, too. . .. still. Silence. how cool can a bloke get?

 

[ProfCluezo]

Pretty cool to actually murder someone, a complete stranger, in broad daylight, and then remove in total all traces of your crime, in addition, dispose of the body, again without leaving any discernible traces , again, in broad daylight ( because people were searching by that afternoon ) and then to trip on home to the girlfriend and rock up for work on Monday, have a yarn to the blokes about a bit of motocross on Saturday, share the lunch sandwiches around...

And keep it up as Mr Cool Electrician for weeks.

Not crack a word, or a sign., Cool as. For a first time murderer, at 22.

Fair points.

The ability to carry on as if nothing happened (if that is indeed the case), is quite extraordinary, even if the coolness hypothetically followed, or co-occurred with a drug and alcohol induced mental frenzy (hypothetically)…

 

[drsleuth]

I agree completely there appear to be many inconsistencies with regards to the information we do have access to… but do we actually know the crime was committed in a “cool clueless” way…? Others have suggested more of a panicked “brain snap”? I personally don’t know which of these possibilities seems more likely… However regardless I absolutely agree the disposal of the phone in the periphery of a shallow and fluctuating-level-dam seems extraordinarily reckless, careless, and ill-considered, whoever the “tosser” was …

No one here knows how the crime was committed ( I hope!) , therefore posts about the where/ how/ why etc are speculation..........

 

[ProfCluezo]

No one here knows how the crime was committed ( I hope!) , therefore posts about the where/ how/ why etc are speculation..........

Absolutely true. Thank you drsleuth .

 

[Curiousobserver]

Pretty cool to actually murder someone, a complete stranger, in broad daylight, and then remove in total all traces of your crime, in addition, dispose of the body, again without leaving any discernible traces , again, in broad daylight ( because people were searching by that afternoon ) and then to trip on home to the girlfriend and rock up for work on Monday, have a yarn to the blokes about a bit of motocross on Saturday, share the lunch sandwiches around...

And keep it up as Mr Cool Electrician for weeks.

Not crack a word, or a sign., Cool as. For a first time murderer, at 22.

And then, maintain silence for all this time. .. mum and dad having to leave home, the sisters, too. . .. still. Silence. how cool can a bloke get?

Reminds me of Bryan Kohberger, a young man with no prior history of violence and suddenly he snaps and kills 4 people with a knife in the middle of the night after breaking into their home. Then he drives home with his dad and is stopped by the police multiple times on his way across the entire US. Cool as a cucumber the whole time.

 

[whinewiththegravy]

May I be so bold as to ask (for clarification) does anyone have actual first hand knowledge here about what is occurring in PS’s remand circumstances, or are the views being expressed entirely speculatory?

I am having a bit of difficulty following…

I do not. What I do know is that invoking Canada as the author of a technique involving undercover police befriending suspects to elicit a confession and/or the location of material evidence is undoubtedly a reference to Mr. Big. Reference to Cowan seals the deal.

But what we’re leaving out is which sorts of suspects are deemed viable targets for such a scenario—usually vulnerable failures with few friends, no community or family, perhaps touting a petty criminal record, but nursing what investigators believe is a heinous, otherwise unsolvable murder—and how they get the confession. No smokes on break or watercooler talk. One or more agents insert themselves into the target’s existence, low stakes and no pressure but for weeks or months at a time. Agents first commiserate with the down at heel target, but eventually begin to flash signs of wealth and status. Agents then recruit their target into participating in what the target is told are lucrative, illegal activities arranged by an organization that is criminal in nature but usually protected by legitimate authorities, often the very LE that have previously investigated the target. This means somewhere in the hierarchy, the big bosses know the target’s “secret.” The target is enriched with goods or cash in exchange for performing their minor “role.” The scheme evolves from there, eventually culminating in a confessional scenario with the head of the outfit who requires collateral in order for the target to become made or a permanent member. In faerieland, and on only two occasions in the lifetime of this technique did this happen AFAIK, a target is expected to lead undercover agents to human remains. Several convictions secured in this fashion have been justifiably overturned.

Pace @Trooper and all IMO, Mr Big is not tantamount to merely mixing with a suspect in detention, because, of course, many LE agencies across the world do that very thing. No reason to ascribe agency or authorship to Canada if that’s what this amounts to.

Mr Big is involved and extensive in time and resources and is legally unsound in the same countries that allow for other forms of legal entrapment referenced above. It has absolutely not “stood up” to universal court scrutiny. An excellent example of this tactic failing in my country while being tacked on to a second and third failure of both due process and basic duty of care to the greater public is Tom Wales and the suspect in his murder, as well as the serial killer informant that led investigators willingly astray. A hail mary tacked onto a sh**tshow of an investigation by people who WOULD use something as unsound as Mr Big, if only to placate their own big bosses.

 

[Dotta]

"Daily Mail Australia understands police are still searching for Ms Murphy's
missing watch and headphones, or
a possible murder weapon."
.........

Police allege Stephenson

'deliberately attacked'

Ms Murphy in Mount Clear, about 7 km into her run on a route she had done 'countless' times.

He is yet to enter a plea and will next front court on August 8."

Samantha Murphy's husband makes a sad revelation

Police called Mick Murphy moments after his wife's mud-splattered iPhone was discovered on the edge of a dam about 14km from their home in Ballarat East on Thursday.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Kemug]

I’m very interested in the allegedly tried and true police strategy of implanting their scruffiest member into remand to potentially “buddy up” with alleged offenders. What strategies do these undercover agents use? Are they vicpol or afp? Do they monitor body language as well as seeking verbal input? Perhaps crims are not the sharpest tools in the shed, but surely they would not be so stupid as to lower their inhibitions with fellow accused who could be looking for any opportunity to offer valuable info to police as a “snitch” so to speak… Or would they?

I should think that "plants" are given some training re possible ways to get a crim to open up to them, maybe by experienced plants, psychiatrists, ex crims. Perhaps they infer that they did something similar, for instance. And I think that perhaps someone in PS's position might be finding it quite hard and lonely, with only his secrets for company, and might find it a relief to unburden himself a little. JMO

 

[touch]

PS has lived in this area all his life, as far as is known, so he would know the dam levels go up and down with the seasons. It just seems such a deviation, ( reckless, panicky,ultimately useless ( dam level stuff ) , such a frantic act, in comparison with the almost cool clueless crime of murder that preceded it.

Maybe he did plan it. We can see in the photos of the police searching that the water level is at least knee deep in places. Maybe this dam still holds water whilst others have dried up and he knows that.

Could be just a poor throw and the phone ended up nearer the edge than he planned for. He can't go into the water looking for it to reposition, he only gets one chance to throw it.

If it had ended up in the deeper water, would it ever have been found? A few metres further on the throw and he'd still be the cool, calculated criminal mastermind!

 

[ProfCluezo]

I should think that "plants" are given some training re possible ways to get a crim to open up to them, maybe by experienced plants, psychiatrists, ex crims. Perhaps they infer that they did something similar, for instance. And I think that perhaps someone in PS's position might be finding it quite hard and lonely, with only his secrets for company, and might find it a relief to unburden himself a little. JMO

Agreed. I wonder if they have pastoral care in remand? Could be a new “angle” for vicpol to consider in future…. ? For “plants” I mean… No need to shop at Vinnies, scruff up and reek of BO…. Could even involve a female…

 

[Trooper]

I do not. What I do know is that invoking Canada as the author of a technique involving undercover police befriending suspects to elicit a confession and/or the location of material evidence is undoubtedly a reference to Mr. Big. Reference to Cowan seals the deal.


Pace @Trooper and all IMO, Mr Big is not tantamount to merely mixing with a suspect in detention, because, of course, many LE agencies across the world do that very thing. No reason to ascribe agency or authorship to Canada if that’s what this amounts to.

Mr Big is involved and extensive in time and resources and is legally unsound in the same countries that allow for other forms of legal entrapment referenced above. It has absolutely not “stood up” to universal court scrutiny. An excellent example of this tactic failing in my country while being tacked on to a second and third failure of both due process and basic duty of care to the greater public is Tom Wales and the suspect in his murder, as well as the serial killer informant that led investigators willingly astray. A hail mary tacked onto a sh**tshow of an investigation by people who WOULD use something as unsound as Mr Big, if only to placate their own big bosses.

edited by me for brevity.

As it happens, Rafay and Burns were prosecuted in the USA, ( a combined operation by USA and Canada , since both men had fled to the USA, believing themselves to be immune from prosecution ) both convicted, an excellent example of this tactic succeeding in the same country as Wales failed. As I pointed out, it has had it's ups and downs.



What we have is a difference of opinion. It does not change the history nor the facts.. These kind of operations are used all over the world. The Canadians did indeed first try it on. It was, for this reason that 4 Canadian police officers, from BC were seconded to the NSW police in their operation against Brett Cowan. And a fabulous job they did, too. But we, apparently , must agree to disagree, because it does not matter , events happen whether either of us agrees.

 

[Trooper]

Maybe he did plan it. We can see in the photos of the police searching that the water level is at least knee deep in places. Maybe this dam still holds water whilst others have dried up and he knows that.

Could be just a poor throw and the phone ended up nearer the edge than he planned for. He can't go into the water looking for it to reposition, he only gets one chance to throw it.

If it had ended up in the deeper water, would it ever have been found? A few metres further on the throw and he'd still be the cool, calculated criminal mastermind!

Precisely. If it was, in deed, him that threw it. Which ... we don't know yet.

 

[Marg944]

This is the second time I have gone for the 6th and now I cannot remember if it is actually the 6th or the 8th.. I was wrong the first time , too!! could I do it twice?? probably. I think it was you who steered me away then, HB,,,?? maybe it was South Aussie.

It is the 8th August…..

“Daily Mail Australia understands police are still searching for Ms Murphy's missing watch and headphones, or a possible murder weapon.

In early March, almost five weeks after Ms Murphy's disappearance, local man Patrick Orren Stephenson, 22, was charged with her alleged murder.

Police allege Stephenson 'deliberately attacked' Ms Murphy in Mount Clear, about 7km into her run on a route she had done 'countless' times.

Stephenson, who has no connection to the Murphy family, was charged with murdering the mother-of-three on March 7.

He is yet to enter a plea and will next front court on August 8.”

Samantha Murphy's husband makes a sad revelation

Police called Mick Murphy moments after his wife's mud-splattered iPhone was discovered on the edge of a dam about 14km from their home in Ballarat East on Thursday.

www.dailymail.co.uk