Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #6 *Arrests*

[CuriousCricket]

I sure as hell hope they were! Please, no errors.

We don't know what they'll come up with to try to save their necks. I'll bet Tifany will come up some justification.

Agreed. Tifany's claim for responsibility has always puzzled me. Not something I'd expect from her, unless it's some sort of tactic and she was already planning a defense. But maybe she really is as unintelligent as this whole "plan" appears to have been.

With all the dumb moves by the gang and all the techy evidence by LE, I don't see any possible defense (of course I'm not a lawyer). But I think Tifany was up to something with the admission, playing an angle some way. I wonder if it will come out at trial -- if there is a trial.

 

[Cool Cats]

I sure as hell hope they were! Please, no errors.

We don't know what they'll come up with to try to save their necks. I'll bet Tifany will come up some justification.

Her recorded confession statement is iron clad in my opinion.

All she can do to "walk it back" would be to say she flat out lied. Then have to give a reason she lied. Then jury would have to buy this.

The only errors I can think of are strong-arming her to confess after hours of unfair interrogation or not being clear to her about all her rights as an arrested person.

Adams and Grice confessed and the next step is for their attorneys to get them some sort of plea deal. Usually as part of the plea deal the prosecution requires the defendant to turn state's evidence against their co-defendants.

2 Cents

 

[Cool Cats]

Agreed. Tifany's claim for responsibility has always puzzled me. Not something I'd expect from her, unless it's some sort of tactic and she was already planning a defense. But maybe she really is as unintelligent as this whole "plan" appears to have been.

With all the dumb moves by the gang and all the techy evidence by LE, I don't see any possible defense (of course I'm not a lawyer). But I think Tifany was up to something with the admission, playing an angle some way. I wonder if it will come out at trial -- if there is a trial.

I agree that I would not expect this from her either. Or from Grice.

Alot of the time defendants confess right after arrest but before consulting an attorney. Attorneys hate this, they often try to keep the confession from being shown to the jury.

If these 2 confessed before consultations with attorneys it is possible they could have regrets and their attorneys could try to suppress the confessions.

There are different angles....

2 Cents

 

[Seattle1]

Her recorded confession statement is iron clad in my opinion.

All she can do to "walk it back" would be to say she flat out lied. Then have to give a reason she lied. Then jury would have to buy this.

The only errors I can think of are strong-arming her to confess after hours of unfair interrogation or not being clear to her about all her rights as an arrested person.

Adams and Grice confessed and the next step is for their attorneys to get them some sort of plea deal. Usually as part of the plea deal the prosecution requires the defendant to turn state's evidence against their co-defendants.

2 Cents

I trust OP has been here long enough to know that nothing is "iron clad" as evidence until it's been admitted as evidence for Trial. Otherwise, it's never seen/heard by the jurors, and as good as non-existent!

IMO, TA thinks she's the smartest person in the room and I pity her defense team as they work to suppress her recorded statement. Only time will tell... JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I trust OP has been here long enough to know that nothing is "iron clad" as evidence until it's been admitted as evidence for Trial. Otherwise, it's never seen/heard by the jurors, and as good as non-existent!

IMO, TA thinks she's the smartest person in the room and I pity her defense team as they work to suppress her recorded statement. Only time will tell... JMO

I think her confession is iron clad in the context of the judge not finding legal grounds to suppress it.

The day - the date - she gave her confession is when it became evidence against her and will be submitted to the defense as part of the evidence discovery process.

This is evidence that her attorneys can now try to get suppressed if they go in that direction, toward a trial for her.

2 Cents

 

[ClearAhead]

I trust OP has been here long enough to know that nothing is "iron clad" as evidence until it's been admitted as evidence for Trial. Otherwise, it's never seen/heard by the jurors, and as good as non-existent!

IMO, TA thinks she's the smartest person in the room and I pity her defense team as they work to suppress her recorded statement. Only time will tell... JMO

Yes good point. It’s still very early in the legal process as well.

The only reason I can think of why she may stand behind her guilty plea is she must know she lost what she was fighting for - custody of the two grandchildren.

If by some unlikely outcome, even if she was found not guilty of double murder, I doubt any court would award her custody of her grandchildren as at the very least, she surely will be convicted of Conspiracy to Commit Murder considering there’s proof she purchased the stun guns and cellphones involved in the homicides.

All and all she’s extremely foolish if she thought she could get away with erasing the existence of VB so she could have her grandchildren all to herself.

JMO

 

[CuriousCricket]

Yes good point. It’s still very early in the legal process as well.

The only reason I can think of why she may stand behind her guilty plea is she must know she lost what she was fighting for - custody of the two grandchildren.

If by some unlikely outcome, even if she was found not guilty of double murder, I doubt any court would award her custody of her grandchildren as at the very least, she surely will be convicted of the Conspiracy to Commit Murder charges considering there’s proof she purchased the stun guns and cellphones involved in the homicides.

All and all she’s extremely foolish if she thought she could simply erase the existence of VB so she could have her grandchildren all to herself.

JMO

With two victims, five defendants and what appears to be considerable amounts of money for excellent defense lawyers, there seems to be plenty of room for creative defenses. To me, it seems it's too early in the process to have any real feel for the gamemanship we'll see in this.

 

[Seattle1]

Yes good point. It’s still very early in the legal process as well.

The only reason I can think of why she may stand behind her guilty plea is she must know she lost what she was fighting for - custody of the two grandchildren.

If by some unlikely outcome, even if she was found not guilty of double murder, I doubt any court would award her custody of her grandchildren as at the very least, she surely will be convicted of Conspiracy to Commit Murder considering there’s proof she purchased the stun guns and cellphones involved in the homicides.

All and all she’s extremely foolish if she thought she could get away with erasing the existence of VB so she could have her grandchildren all to herself.

JMO

IIRC, the Judge entered NOT GUILTY pleas for all of the defendants at their first appearance, including TA. If TA has since changed her plea, please link because I missed it! The only way I see TA changing her plea to guilty is if she can strike a deal to avoid the death. JMO

The judge entered not guilty pleas for all four, who are accused of killing Veronica Butler, 27, and Jilian Kelley, 39. The two Kansas women disappeared March 30 while on their way to pick up Butler's children from a birthday party in nearby Oklahoma.

4 suspects in murder of Kansas moms denied bond

Prosecutors allege one of the suspects, Tifany Adams, provided a statement to law enforcement "indicating her responsibility" in the killings.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes good point. It’s still very early in the legal process as well.

The only reason I can think of why she may stand behind her guilty plea is she must know she lost what she was fighting for - custody of the two grandchildren.

If by some unlikely outcome, even if she was found not guilty of double murder, I doubt any court would award her custody of her grandchildren as at the very least, she surely will be convicted of Conspiracy to Commit Murder considering there’s proof she purchased the stun guns and cellphones involved in the homicides.

All and all she’s extremely foolish if she thought she could get away with erasing the existence of VB so she could have her grandchildren all to herself.

JMO

IMO TA will never see those grandchildren again. I hope the maternal grandparents or a family member takes them in. The woman concocted and conspired to brutally kill their mother and an innocent parental visitation supervisor.

State witness or not, she's going to live out her remaining years behind bars and that''s exactly where she needs to be. All of them actually. The lives they took and the ripple effect of that action will be felt by so many forever.

She's a manipulative, controlling, scheming evil woman.

Just MOO

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

That sounds logical and in most cases is probably right. I think where this went from fantasy to a plan was when the first person agreed with her that the mother needed to be removed. I can't comprehend the others agreeing to participate.

Since earlier someone here posted that Cole Twombly had paid off mortgages on two pieces of land, I have to wonder if he saw TA's frustration with the custody battle as an opportunity.

However, having felt the power of those mentally unhealthy hormones, I can not be sure how I'd vote if on a jury. It would take a very skilled defense attorney.

Which would not be a hormone induced crime IMO

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

Andrea Yates, who drowned her 5 kids, declines release hearing from mental hospital, again​

Andrea Yates, who drowned her 5 kids, declines release hearing from mental hospital

Every year, her case comes up for review and every year, her attorney says, she declines a hearing and choses to stay in a psychiatric hospital.

www.today.com

Not sure the point your trying to make here. She did use post partum as defense and was found guilty. Then the verdict was overturned a few years later to not guilty by reason of insanity. She then went into psych hospital. The point I was making was she used hormones as a defense. I hope she stays in the psych ward forever.

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

For a mental health defense there would have to be some sort of documentation. Like when a woman says she shot her husband after years of abuse there needs to be evidence of abuse to support this.

Not enough to just "come out of the blue" and say now suddenly you have mental problems, unless she is evaluated right now and found to be incompetent to stand trial.

Also she took care of the children, fought in court over them and meticulously planned and bought murder items and tried to cover her tracks.

All showing she is mentally competent to face capital murder charges. I believe Lori Vallow's DP was dropped due to her mental condition, she was found incompetent to stand trial twice.

2 Cents



Not necessary to testify against Grice because during police interviews he admitted to killing both women and burying both women.

2 Cents

I was making a point about hormones being used as defense. Holy crap. I don't even think TA can use that defense anyway. Lots of premeditation involved, so not a hormonal break from reality.

 

[Cool Cats]

I was making a point about hormones being used as defense. Holy crap. I don't even think TA can use that defense anyway. Lots of premeditation involved, so not a hormonal break from reality.

I have never heard of hormones for a defense but I see your point. Thanks

 

[Artis]

Not sure the point your trying to make here. She did use post partum as defense and was found guilty. Then the verdict was overturned a few years later to not guilty by reason of insanity. She then went into psych hospital. The point I was making was she used hormones as a defense. I hope she stays in the psych ward forever.

Oh, I know. I was posting that as interesting info. I didn't know what became of her.

 

[ClearAhead]

IIRC, the Judge entered NOT GUILTY pleas for all of the defendants at their first appearance, including TA. If TA has since changed her plea, please link because I missed it! The only way I see TA changing her plea to guilty is if she can strike a deal to avoid the death. JMO

The judge entered not guilty pleas for all four, who are accused of killing Veronica Butler, 27, and Jilian Kelley, 39. The two Kansas women disappeared March 30 while on their way to pick up Butler's children from a birthday party in nearby Oklahoma.

4 suspects in murder of Kansas moms denied bond

Prosecutors allege one of the suspects, Tifany Adams, provided a statement to law enforcement "indicating her responsibility" in the killings.

www.cbsnews.com

No she’s not changed her plea from the Not Guilty at her initial appearance. But I think any decent defense attorney would advise a client to seek a plea deal especially if the DP is going to be a factor. JMO

 

[OldAce]

No she’s not changed her plea from the Not Guilty at her initial appearance. But I think any decent defense attorney would advise a client to seek a plea deal especially if the DP is going to be a factor. JMO

What is the next court date for what level of proceedings as posted now?

 

[Sundog]

IMO TA will never see those grandchildren again. I hope the maternal grandparents or a family member takes them in.

<snipped for focus>

I, too, hope that the maternal grandparents or othere famly member will petition the courts for custody, but with the children's father still living they would have to take away his parental rights.

 

[ClearAhead]

What is the next court date for what level of proceedings as posted now?

June 19th will be a status hearing. It appears no discovery has yet been officially turned over and TA is still on the process of filing a “pauper’s affidavit” assumably to receive court appointed council.

OSCN Case Details

05/15/2024

TEXT

CM: MINUTE/ORDER ATTY STATUS HRG/HRG ON MTNS. COUNSEL TO ASSIST CLIENT W/COMPLETING A PAUPER'S AFFIDAVIT. RULINGS ENTERED ALL PER SEPARATE ORDERS FILED THIS DATE. DISCOVERY STATUS SET 6/19/24 AT 9:00 A.M. Pursuant to 12 O.S. § 39, Document Available at Court Clerk's Office

05/15/2024	TEXT	FIRST DISCOVERY ORDER Pursuant to 12 O.S. § 39, Document Available at Court Clerk's Office	​		​
05/30/2024	TEXT	MOTION TO ESTABLISH PROCEDURE FOR RESPONDING AND HEARING OF MOTIONS Pursuant to 12 O.S. § 39, Document Available at Court Clerk's Office	​		​
05/30/2024	TEXT	STATE'S OBJECTION AND REQUEST FOR EXCEPTION TO THE COURT'S FIRST DISCOVERY ORDER Pursuant to 12 O.S. § 39, Document Available at Court Clerk's Office

 

[Cool Cats]

With two victims, five defendants and what appears to be considerable amounts of money for excellent defense lawyers, there seems to be plenty of room for creative defenses. To me, it seem

I do not see considerable amounts of money for excellent defense lawyers. I only see that Cora Twombly may have a private attorney.

2 Cents

 

[CuriousCricket]

I do not see considerable amounts of money for excellent defense lawyers. I only see that Cora Twombly may have a private attorney.

2 Cents

I had TA and TC pegged for private attorney. Early on Cole had indicated he would have a private attorney. Since they are owners of large tracts of land and business owners as well as TA being chairman of a political party and member of a hospital board -- well, those things seem to signal money. We also knew from the beginning, that it was Cora who would need a court-appointed attorney, as there was considerable discussion of how she felt with Cole saying he would hire an attorney and she had to take a public defender. Some even tied that to Cole's possible/perceived anger at Cora's daughter.

So now you're saying Cora may have a private attorney -- info new to me.

Now, of course, it seems TA has filed or is filing indigent paperwork for a court-appointed attorney.

I don't know how things will shake out as it seems to keep changing.