Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[Incoherent]

Looking at her final resting place, it seems the killer ambushed her a 2nd time as she was about to enter Rei’s room or exiting from it, both of which would mean she was checking in on him. Ofcourse it could very well be that someone ( the killer/Nina) told her about Rei’s deatg and she went in to confirm.

Yes the theory as to why Yasuko took Niina down the ladder is because they thought the killer had gone, but he had actually just gone to the kitchen for another knife as the sashimi knife had broken and wasn’t effective anymore.

Then once at the bottom of the ladder whether they looked into Rei’s room or not just speculation, but I’m going to guess since they had both just been stabbed and Mikio was dead at the bottom of the staircase, if she had even 0.5 seconds of time before the killer reappeared she looked into that room for her son. Rei was making no noise, no movement, and from the landing Yasuko would see at least that the room had been disturbed. I think at this point it’s pretty obvious to her that her son was not ok, whether she could physically see him or not.

Here is an image I posted earlier of the ladder position in relation to its surroundings:

You are right that the diagram has it pushed too far back.
Yasuko would have seen Mikio dead at the bottom of the stairs while she went down it IMO.
But it is worth noting that the landing area is incredibly cramped, so even just Niina and Yasuko lying on the floor would stretch into Rei’s bedroom and as far as the staircase.

At the bottom of the ladder there is blood that could not be scrubbed off and soaked into the wood, which is where Niina finally died.

 

[BatataPoha]

View attachment 507832
You are right that the diagram has it pushed too far back.
Yasuko would have seen Mikio dead at the bottom of the stairs while she went down it IMO.
But it is worth noting that the landing area is incredibly cramped, so even just Niina and Yasuko lying on the floor would stretch into Rei’s bedroom and as far as the staircase.

At the bottom of the ladder there is blood that could not be scrubbed off and soaked into the wood, which is where Niina finally died.

Pretty good. Yeah I would agree looking at how cramped all the stuff is. Which makes the sound situation in the house and across the neighbours quite interesting.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

its the gastro-ileal reflex. If you distend the stomach a lot, the ileocolic sphincter relaxes moving food into your colon and giving you an urge to defaecate.

With all his actions of cooling down, I assume it’s fairly like he defaecated soon after the ice creams and before he staged the document search scene

For me, I suspect the documents and other nonflushables went in first, otherwise I would have expected him to flush after defecating.

I know some folks speculate about him intentionally leaving so much DNA evidence, but I tend to think it was more accidental/circumstantial, if he even understood about DNA at all.

MOO

 

[BatataPoha]

I was going through some of the older threads and @FacelessPodcast answers in them. Just wanted to clarify since they were old answers -

1) whether phone lines were cut?
2) whether killer was caught on Cctv buying the knife in the nearby market?
3) whether the first aid kit Nina had on here was the one from which the killer found the sanitary pads or were they found somewhere else?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I was going through some of the older threads and @FacelessPodcast answers in them. Just wanted to clarify since they were old answers -

1) whether phone lines were cut?

No, they were not cut. Oh, and to clarify, I don’t know there was a phone in the attic. My point was that the killer likely didn’t know that either.

2) whether killer was caught on Cctv buying the knife in the nearby market?

This man was actually identified relatively recently. As far as we know, the TMPD have no clue in terms of his face. Or more to the point, he likely was on CCTV on the day of the murders somewhere. I would like to think that they have copies of that footage and the recent ID of knife man suggests they’re still digging into that.

3) whether the first aid kit Nina had on here was the one from which the killer found the sanitary pads or were they found somewhere else?

The killer used the first aid kid on himself. When it didn’t stem the bleeding, he then went back to the bathroom to use Yasuko’s menstrual pads. That to me says a young man who either has a girlfriend or sisters or some such. For a 15-year-old boy to even think of that? Surprising imo.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

The killer used the first aid kid on himself. When it didn’t stem the bleeding, he then went back to the bathroom to use Yasuko’s menstrual pads. That to me says a young man who either has a girlfriend or sisters or some such. For a 15-year-old boy to even think of that? Surprising imo.

What puzzles me is that menstrual pads are not particularly useful for staunching bleeding per se. They are helpful in terms of soaking up blood, of course. But he would need to wrap them tightly around his injury in order for them to actually stop his bleeding, and it seems they would work no better at this than an old t shirt or handkerchief, and maybe worse, as they could be too bulky to wrap well (depending -- there are many thicknesses of such products).

Ah, but the idea now comes to me -- maybe the purpose was less to staunch the bleeding and more to hide the bleeding from being seen by others as he escaped. So a tight wrap to stop/slow bleeding, with an absorbent pad inside the wrap to try to prevent blood from becoming visible to passersby?

MOO

 

[BatataPoha]

What puzzles me is that menstrual pads are not particularly useful for staunching bleeding per se. They are helpful in terms of soaking up blood, of course. But he would need to wrap them tightly around his injury in order for them to actually stop his bleeding, and it seems they would work no better at this than an old t shirt or handkerchief, and maybe worse, as they could be too bulky to wrap well (depending -- there are many thicknesses of such products).

Ah, but the idea now comes to me -- maybe the purpose was less to staunch the bleeding and more to hide the bleeding from being seen by others as he escaped. So a tight wrap to stop/slow bleeding, with an absorbent pad inside the wrap to try to prevent blood from becoming visible to passersby?

MOO

One of the reasons could be the sterility and lack of contamination especially from the inside of the pads. Pretty ingenious if that was the reason.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

One of the reasons could be the sterility and lack of contamination especially from the inside of the pads. Pretty ingenious if that was the reason.

Good point!

 

[BatataPoha]

The killer used the first aid kid on himself. When it didn’t stem the bleeding, he then went back to the bathroom to use Yasuko’s menstrual pads. That to me says a young man who either has a girlfriend or sisters or some such. For a 15-year-old boy to even think of that? Surprising imo.

That could be the case. At the very least, its a very smart choice, instead of lets say a used cloth or a bedsheet. I also have a feeling that could also stem from again growing up in a medical household where a lot of fuss was made over not just wrapping your wounds with any sorta rag but instead look for sterile/disinfected material. MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

Yes the theory as to why Yasuko took Niina down the ladder is because they thought the killer had gone, but he had actually just gone to the kitchen for another knife as the sashimi knife had broken and wasn’t effective anymore.

Then once at the bottom of the ladder whether they looked into Rei’s room or not just speculation, but I’m going to guess since they had both just been stabbed and Mikio was dead at the bottom of the staircase, if she had even 0.5 seconds of time before the killer reappeared she looked into that room for her son. Rei was making no noise, no movement, and from the landing Yasuko would see at least that the room had been disturbed. I think at this point it’s pretty obvious to her that her son was not ok, whether she could physically see him or not.

Here is an image I posted earlier of the ladder position in relation to its surroundings:
View attachment 507832
You are right that the diagram has it pushed too far back.
Yasuko would have seen Mikio dead at the bottom of the stairs while she went down it IMO.
But it is worth noting that the landing area is incredibly cramped, so even just Niina and Yasuko lying on the floor would stretch into Rei’s bedroom and as far as the staircase.

At the bottom of the ladder there is blood that could not be scrubbed off and soaked into the wood, which is where Niina finally died.

There are lots of places in the house with stains, per other photos.

 

[Incoherent]

There are lots of places in the house with stains, per other photos.

Yes there are, but the stain at the bottom of the ladder is the most reported on in Japanese media because of the amount of blood that soaked into the wood and couldn’t be removed. It really demonstrates just how much blood there was and how ferociously they were attacked.

But my original point for that was Niina and Yasuko’s bodies stretching out across the landing from inside Rei’s doorway all the way to the staircase where the ladder was, demonstrating how cramped it is inside there.

As An Irie said, they would have had no space to run during the attack.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

@Incoherent , when was the last time you passed Soshigaya Park? I'm asking just for an update on the situation on the security following the break-in from those school kids.

The last I've heard, it's wholly fenced off, meaning that even if I had keys and permission, it sounds like it wouldn't be possible to gain access?

 

[Incoherent]

@Incoherent , when was the last time you passed Soshigaya Park? I'm asking just for an update on the situation on the security following the break-in from those school kids.

The last I've heard, it's wholly fenced off, meaning that even if I had keys and permission, it sounds like it wouldn't be possible to gain access?

Last time I was there was early March. The break in was around November I think?

The front and sides of the house are fenced off with chain link fence, and the back is completely blocked from view with a huge plastic wall.

From what I could see there was no way to the front door without climbing the fence, so I’m assuming you’d need police assistance with that as well as keys and permission to enter.

I have photos if you want to see for a clearer picture?

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Last time I was there was early March. The break in was around November I think?

The front and sides of the house are fenced off with chain link fence, and the back is completely blocked from view with a huge plastic wall.

From what I could see there was no way to the front door without climbing the fence, so I’m assuming you’d need police assistance with that as well as keys and permission to enter.

I have photos if you want to see for a clearer picture?

That's OK, I was just talking with Ryushi about potentially getting access to the house. But seeing as it belongs to the City, those meddling kids might have just put the kibosh on this.

 

[BatataPoha]

Are there British army/British military contractors/British military personnel who live at the American base?

Pretty farfetched but I seem to remember the Ann’s having lived in the UK at some point.

Also its a random pattern that most of the killer’s stuff that left behind are around the price range of 2000 to 4000 yen except the gloves. I wonder if this was some weekly or monthly allowance of some sort that he was provided with, and he chose to spend it completely on these items. But then he leaves mostly all of it behind, so it can’t have had too much significance for him in his head.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

For me, I suspect the documents and other nonflushables went in first, otherwise I would have expected him to flush after defecating.

I know some folks speculate about him intentionally leaving so much DNA evidence, but I tend to think it was more accidental/circumstantial, if he even understood about DNA at all.

MOO

And even if he wasn't thinking about DNA specifically, he wouldn't have to be a criminal mastermind to realise, once he was bleeding all over the place and his gloves were torn, that the cat was out of the bag. Given that he's wearing gloves in the first place tells us that he was at least considering it initially (and we might think it's normal enough given the season but if you check the weather that day, it wasn't actually that cold). Same goes for the fact he was wearing a low-brim hat and possibly used one of the handkerchiefs to cover his face -- he was thinking about possibly testimony against him on some level. A bucket hat is a summer hat, typically, not one worn for cold. This to me says he went into the situation with at least some awareness of how to protect himself. The chilling thing is, how quickly he seems to pivot and accept the situation. Oh, well my blood and prints are on the wall? At this point, I'll leave everything.

The idea that he was some sort of criminal mastermind and STAGING evidence or somehow trying to confuse detectives with it doesn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny. For what purpose? How would it confuse them? To what end would he intentionally leave his own DNA if he didn't want to get caught? And clearly, he didn't want to get caught because he didn't hand himself in. He's never spoken to the police in the vein of the Zodiac or BTK. I think he simply accepted that the situation had changed the second he cut himself and just reacted accordingly. That to me, given the total lack of attempted clean-up despite the hours in the house, suggests he had an escape route.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

What puzzles me is that menstrual pads are not particularly useful for staunching bleeding per se. They are helpful in terms of soaking up blood, of course. But he would need to wrap them tightly around his injury in order for them to actually stop his bleeding, and it seems they would work no better at this than an old t shirt or handkerchief, and maybe worse, as they could be too bulky to wrap well (depending -- there are many thicknesses of such products).

I'm assuming he wrapped something over them to keep them in place. From the cuts themselves, I think it's possible we have wrist / palm and fingers. I'll defer to those with medical knowledge of course, but just on a practical level, those would be tricky to wrap once you're out of first aid supplies?

Ah, but the idea now comes to me -- maybe the purpose was less to staunch the bleeding and more to hide the bleeding from being seen by others as he escaped. So a tight wrap to stop/slow bleeding, with an absorbent pad inside the wrap to try to prevent blood from becoming visible to passersby?

MOO

Even if they weren't actually a smart choice, the very fact he even thought to turn to them is what surprises me. Either, he's a smart kid, or he's used to women -- sisters / girlfriend or what have you.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Are there British army/British military contractors/British military personnel who live at the American base?

I can't say it's impossible but to my mind, the only people on base are Americans and Japanese.

Pretty farfetched but I seem to remember the Ann’s having lived in the UK at some point.

She did yeah, for several years -- her husband worked in Formula 1. I think the deal was, when that ended, they were forced to move back to Soshigaya and live with her mother, despite that being bought as a 'granny house.'

Also its a random pattern that most of the killer’s stuff that left behind are around the price range of 2000 to 4000 yen except the gloves. I wonder if this was some weekly or monthly allowance of some sort that he was provided with, and he chose to spend it completely on these items. But then he leaves mostly all of it behind, so it can’t have had too much significance for him in his head.

Absolutely. Despite some people here suggesting that a 15-year-old walking around with a $100 shirt (in today's money) is not someone who was well off, I think by any reasonable yardstick, we can assume the killer wasn't hard up. The clothes say it, the aftershave says it, the fact that he didn't bother with the valuables in the house and only took part of their money. And as you say, if he *needed* those clothes, the jacket particularly which was brand-new, he could've washed off much of the blood from that material. It wouldn't have taken that long, it's dark in colour, he left under cover of night almost certainly. But as you say, he simply didn't bother. I think it's quite striking how he sees it as tainted and drops it immediately, stealing Mikio's sweater instead. And I'd bet that if they wore the same shoes and waist size, the killer would've left his pants and Slazengers behind too.

 

[BatataPoha]

She did yeah, for several years -- her husband worked in Formula 1. I think the deal was, when that ended, they were forced to move back to Soshigaya and live with her mother, despite that being bought as a 'granny house.'

thats quite cool.

Absolutely. Despite some people here suggesting that a 15-year-old walking around with a $100 shirt (in today's money) is not someone who was well off, I think by any reasonable yardstick, we can assume the killer wasn't hard up. The clothes say it, the aftershave says it, the fact that he didn't bother with the valuables in the house and only took part of their money. And as you say, if he *needed* those clothes, the jacket particularly which was brand-new, he could've washed off much of the blood from that material. It wouldn't have taken that long, it's dark in colour, he left under cover of night almost certainly. But as you say, he simply didn't bother. I think it's quite striking how he sees it as tainted and drops it immediately, stealing Mikio's sweater instead. And I'd bet that if they wore the same shoes and waist size, the killer would've left his pants and Slazengers behind too.

I completely agree with the last part. I also think that the killer is clearly confident that the police won’t be able to get to him via his clothes and stuff. That eliminates the nearby locals. The fanny pack was obviously used but its fairly ok to assume the rest of the clothing is also part of his regular wardrobe, or atleast ones he had worn previously before.

Coming in to your first kill with your own clothes certainly speaks of certain narcissistic tendencies. The killer was maybe supremely confident of getting a perfect kill.

But when it doesn’t go to plan, his narcissism takes a different path. One that he won’t be caught behind, no matter how much stuff he left behind.

When I saw the disdain with which he had left his stuff behind, I always presumed he was going back somewhere where coming in like that would raise a lot of suspicion especially early morning, so not like a secluded apartment or building but like hostel or camps where a lot of people are around.

Would explain the choice of the sweater as well, coz that might be something that was more in style of the killer’s wardrobe.MOO

 

[FacelessPodcast]

thats quite cool.

I completely agree with the last part. I also think that the killer is clearly confident that the police won’t be able to get to him via his clothes and stuff. That eliminates the nearby locals. The fanny pack was obviously used but its fairly ok to assume the rest of the clothing is also part of his regular wardrobe, or atleast ones he had worn previously before.

Coming in to your first kill with your own clothes certainly speaks of certain narcissistic tendencies. The killer was maybe supremely confident of getting a perfect kill.

But when it doesn’t go to plan, his narcissism takes a different path. One that he won’t be caught behind, no matter how much stuff he left behind.

When I saw the disdain with which he had left his stuff behind, I always presumed he was going back somewhere where coming in like that would raise a lot of suspicion especially early morning, so not like a secluded apartment or building but like hostel or camps where a lot of people are around.

Would explain the choice of the sweater as well, coz that might be something that was more in style of the killer’s wardrobe.MOO

My feeling is that, if I'm right about him being connected to a USAF base, the sentries would have simply waved him in and been extremely unlikely to notice his change of clothes. People connected to this base on the outskirts of Tokyo have told me, both on and off WS, that the son of a big cheese (for example) would come and go as he pleases. Given he leaves the base before curfew wearing a brand-new Uniqlo jacket and comes back wearing the DIVE sweatshirt, I would be absolutely astonished if the sentry noticed that. Maybe they'd just assume he took off his jacket if they noticed it at all (and it assumes the shift hadn't changed between the night of the 30th and dawn of the 31st).

So, in summary, I think he could get on base and off it in different clothes without anyone raising an eyebrow. In terms of his actual home, that would be trickier. You can imagine a mother saying "is that sweater new?" But again, that assumes they're awake. My feeling is that his parents would have obviously noticed the injury above all else.