Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[FacelessPodcast]

1. A old morning TV news programme reported that the front door was found locked by Haruko. It’s been reported that she couldn’t remember if it was locked or not, but this news said that “the entrance was locked and no windows were smashed”. It could just be that this comes from very early on when Haruko gave that answer before saying she couldn’t actually remember, but it’s the first time I’ve seen a report actually state the door was locked.

RSBM: There's absolutely no way they could've known that seeing as the TMPD still doesn't know today. She doesn't even remember if the door was closed, let alone locked. I'm assuming it was just a misunderstanding early on. Also, if it were locked, it leads to the issue of keys. Their house keys being missing would've been flagged immediately. If the keys were there, then the possibility of the killer having a copy presents itself. But that'd almost certainly require a relationship with the family, which leads us back to the TMPD almost certainly having identified any relevant links by now.

2. Hair was also found in the hip bag. It was reported that the killer likely had short, black hair between 1.5mm and 2.5cm that had been clipped short. It’s the first time I’ve seen this kind of indication about his appearance. Short, clipped, black hair puts an image in my head that I hadn’t had there before.

Yes, the information about his hair is on the TMPD website, too. I'm yet to understand whether they know if this was his overall cut (such as a buzzcut) or perhaps short at the back but long on top etc. You would assume that if such short hairs were present, it's likely longer ones would be too, though. Particularly as he left his scarf and hat, both of which would've had a high chance of snagging one or two. People have flagged this up as another step towards a military brat / military man -- the very short hair. Myself, find this to be among the weakest supporting elements of that theory but maybe it all adds up.

Here’s a screenshot of the beginning of that on the ground floor where the computers were:
View attachment 508740
I found this one particularly interesting to see.

This is a great photo. It really shows you that, even in the larger spaces, we're not talking about a big house. Almost every part is cramped. You can also see what I think is manga on the bottom left (which supports the notion that Mikio was a fan / also big into anime). I think that's Niina's school bag in the foreground. It's heartbreaking when you see all the indicia of four lives lived.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I have always found it a bit perplexing. I have to assume that the grandma had the key for the Miyazawa’s house on her, because she didnt come back for the key (as reported by the Anns).

Is this the norm for her? Like she phones them earlier, they do not pick up. Then she goes over there and rings the doorbell, no one answers it. Wouldn’t the most understandable explaination for that would be they were all sleeping in. So would she, use the key to unlock the door and go in there and wake them all up? Is this a thing that was common place or something she used to do? Now I understand that there is a different family dynamic over there, so maybe thats the kind of thing she usually did, but for me, the more prudent thing to do would have been to go back and give them a call again, especially if the son in law was a bit concerned about “interference” and stuff?

RSBM: It's possible she did knock, got no answer, called again -- and then went back with the key. The TMPD have her full testimony so I'm sure those detectives have the complete timeline. But we also know she's able to say when she's unsure about something. In short, the discovery has always been (and likely always will be) unclear.

My understanding: they all had plans that morning. The grandmother phones them. When nobody answers, she goes round there with the key (quite reasonably accepting the possibility they're out). It's possible Haruko was going out herself and they / the kids were meant to accompany her so she had her keys on her anyway. It's possible them breaking plans like that was simply so out of character, she went inside to check? We know that Mikio was a meticulous man and Yasuko was extremely responsible, so that's not out of the realms of possibility. Or maybe she saw something that jarred. Shoe marks on the hood of the car. The blinds still not drawn. Maybe the fact they were still asleep at 10am was simply inconceivable to her? Another possibility is that Ann's son had mentioned the bang that morning over breakfast. When the Miyazawas didn't answer the phone, Haruko thought she'd check herself. This is mostly just me riffing.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

From my understanding of things, the kinda confidence the killer had to leave his clothing behind seems to indicate that he was quitely confident that the clothes wouldn’t lead back to him.

Either that, or he figured he was leaving anyway so his clothing wouldn't matter. Clearly, he approached the house attempting to disguise his identity but once he'd bled everywhere, the cat was out of the bag. Though absolutely, his actions speak to a young man with extreme self-belief.

The clothes are his but maybe they are not his usual/regualar wear.

So the killer is in high school/college, cares enough about studies to have highlighter ink in his fanny pack, demonstrates reasonable intelligence to not only execute an ambush, but make a good entry (at the very least) , is financially in a decent situation to leave stuff behind. Even ignoring his presumed army background, it is reasonable to expect him to have short hair than long simply because I don’t think his clothes/ his belongings that night tell his actual story.

That's my reading, too. I also get the gut feeling that what he wore that night, though while not cheap at all, was expendable to him or they wouldn't be missed. He's smart enough to realise that stabbing people will lead to blood getting on you. Even if he hadn't left the clothes there in the house, my instinct tells me he wouldn't burned them / disposed of them.

 

[BatataPoha]

My understanding: they all had plans that morning. The grandmother phones them. When nobody answers, she goes round there with the key (quite reasonably accepting the possibility they're out). It's possible Haruko was going out herself and they / the kids were meant to accompany her so she had her keys on her anyway. It's possible them breaking plans like that was simply so out of character, she went inside to check? We know that Mikio was a meticulous man and Yasuko was extremely responsible, so that's not out of the realms of possibility. Or maybe she saw something that jarred. Shoe marks on the hood of the car. The blinds still not drawn. Maybe the fact they were still asleep at 10am was simply inconceivable to her? Another possibility is that Ann's son had mentioned the bang that morning over breakfast. When the Miyazawas didn't answer the phone, Haruko thought she'd check herself. This is mostly just me riffing.

Depends on the kind of locks the Miyazawas had in the house. Some locks automatically latch into place once the door is closed behind, others actively require the key to be turned for things to lock in.

If its the former, then yes, the killer is extremely fortuitous that the grandma has gotten confused about something in the timeline.

But if its the latter, I can’t see the killer wasting precious getaway time loitering around the outside of a house where he had just murdered trying to lock the house from the outside. And he would lock it how? The Miyazawas key would be with him outside, so it would defeat the entire purpose of him hiding his exit route.

Any missing key of either of the two household would quickly be found out, if it wasn’t replaced before the discovery of the crime.

A third key would just generate more questions and leads. Also I doubt the killer himself had skills to successfully copy keys, so then that involves another third party which would have likely been found out by now.

 

[BatataPoha]

This is an interesting angle that I'd never considered before. Particularly because, in my own limited experience with the Samaritans phone line in the UK, confidentiality is an important part of the process. Often people that are going to die don't want to be alone. If the killer committed suicide straight after, though 1) he would had to have done it in a way that didn't raise any 'red flags' to the authorities and been cremated before the Chief had a chance to get his court order on all unidentified male bodies (which would've come later anyway). Or 2) killed himself in isolation and his body still hasn't been found.

Either option is possible. But suicide would imply an overwhelming guilt, which requires a humanity that my heart tells me he lacks -- JMO.

My take on it is the killer is neither too proud of his kills and neither too upset with it. It was something that had to be done by him to get to the next stage in life. Like a preparatory exam or something.

Not to mention the fact that someone who wanted to commit suicide, or did infact commit one would not go to significant trouble to hide the shoes and stuff.

 

[BatataPoha]

The frustrating thing is that the killer's DNA is almost certainly still in that house. I'm friends with one of the world's leading experts in familial DNA. What we could learn about the killer alone would move the dial significantly here. Let alone actually having a chance at maybe linking him to extant family trees etc.

Really? From my understanding of things ( very outdated) you require a substantial database to compare and analyse this, and that might not exist for all ethnicities/nationalities for multitudes of reason.

I would be very interested to read some more technical info on this kinda inferential Dna analysis, especially for groups of people who aren’t very highly represented in Dna banks and databases.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Really? From my understanding of things ( very outdated) you require a substantial database to compare and analyse this, and that might not exist for all ethnicities/nationalities for multitudes of reason.

I would be very interested to read some more technical info on this kinda inferential Dna analysis, especially for groups of people who aren’t very highly represented in Dna banks and databases.

I should’ve said that this is assuming the killer wasn’t actually Japanese / he has some kind of link to the US.

Which I would bet my bottom dollar he does.

Still a fair chance he’s Japanese, of course. But even then, being able to eliminate him from any known family tree in a pool of 320 million people would still be very useful. Not to mention we could use his DNA for genetic phenotyping to ‘see’ his face.

 

[dotr]

Regarding the perp committing suicide, not likely imo, the brutal killings ''satisfied'' that urge, imo, speculation.

 

[BatataPoha]

I should’ve said that this is assuming the killer wasn’t actually Japanese / he has some kind of link to the US.

Which I would bet my bottom dollar he does.

Still a fair chance he’s Japanese, of course. But even then, being able to eliminate him from any known family tree in a pool of 320 million people would still be very useful. Not to mention we could use his DNA for genetic phenotyping to ‘see’ his face.

I hope so. Ultimately I am not too hopeful simply because its probably easier to find a hit on a Norwegian-American than a Vietnamese-American simply because certain subgroups are more represented on these private databases.

Not to mention the fact that there is a chance the killer is adopted. We know how many South Korean kids landed up in Western countries with like forged papers and stuff. I dunno if the timeline fits for this but you can never discount that possibility unfortunately.

As for his face, I mean even if assuming he has a face that is distinct by Japanese standards, I don’t think its distinct enough for this guy to be recognized in his home country, so not very useful for LE but maybe could aid private investigators.

Anyways, I hope God/ higher power /fate doesn’t begrudge the Miyazawas of justice.

JMO.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

Hi @FacelessPodcast

I was wondering if I could ask what your thoughts on maybe the possibility that perhaps if the killer came to the US he did so because he was banished? In general I think that about the perp fleeing Japan for America that he does so with his parents and siblings as well. However, last night I went on a tangent reading about the teenage experience in Japan during the early 2000s. The articles mention the pressure students experienced to do well academically, the emotional isolation or distance they felt towards their parents, the bullying faced by students and teachers at school and the economic turmoil dwindling many of their hoped for job and financial aspirations. They also mention an increase in teen violence with many of the stories covering teens who murdered parents, grandparents, neighbors following a slight and then hostages on a bus and strangers, mainly kids and the elderly, because they wanted to know what it felt like to murder someone. In general, the articles imply the murders were some sort of release for the minors who were disturbed by the stress and emotions and needed help. It is mentioned teachers, parents and counselors taking more proactive roles to aid students with counseling, private lessons in place of schools and clinics or centers for trouble teens.

I was wondering if you think it is possible that perhaps did express some type of emotional or psychological disturbance beforehand and because of that or his inability to do well in school as a result or his parents and the school reaching the end of their rope they decided to that he should try starting over in America with the caveat they stayed behind? Could that have set him off if he didn’t want to go or if he felt like the future he had planned for himself in Japan was no longer attainable?

Could he have felt projected his feelings of being ostracized and rejected by his own parents onto the Miyazawas because they seemed like the perfect loving family and it wasn’t fair? Or did they represent what he thought what his family should have been or what he thought they were until they betrayed him?

I also thought about what you mentioned in that he possibly studied medicine and wonder if his parents had their last straw if he received a bad or failing grade or something awful happening that affected his enrollment or future academics.

Also, with that in mind do you think it is possible that if one or both of his parents stayed behind that they left the Buddhist statue at the Miyazawa home out of sense of both faith, if they are practitioners, or a sense of guilt or responsibility? Just a random thought after reading more on the Yokota base and recent ceremonies they have hosted.

Also, why do you think he bought a knife, especially such an unfit one as the video emphasized, instead of just taking one from home? Do you think that perhaps his parents were watching him close and would know something was wrong if he exhibited signs of disturbing behavior? He could have easily carried one from home and washed it before leaving so I was wondering if you think there is any significance to that all?

All just MOO TIA

 

[BatataPoha]

Hi @FacelessPodcast

I was wondering if I could ask what your thoughts on maybe the possibility that perhaps if the killer came to the US he did so because he was banished? In general I think that about the perp fleeing Japan for America that he does so with his parents and siblings as well. However, last night I went on a tangent reading about the teenage experience in Japan during the early 2000s. The articles mention the pressure students experienced to do well academically, the emotional isolation or distance they felt towards their parents, the bullying faced by students and teachers at school and the economic turmoil dwindling many of their hoped for job and financial aspirations. They also mention an increase in teen violence with many of the stories covering teens who murdered parents, grandparents, neighbors following a slight and then hostages on a bus and strangers, mainly kids and the elderly, because they wanted to know what it felt like to murder someone. In general, the articles imply the murders were some sort of release for the minors who were disturbed by the stress and emotions and needed help. It is mentioned teachers, parents and counselors taking more proactive roles to aid students with counseling, private lessons in place of schools and clinics or centers for trouble teens.

I was wondering if you think it is possible that perhaps did express some type of emotional or psychological disturbance beforehand and because of that or his inability to do well in school as a result or his parents and the school reaching the end of their rope they decided to that he should try starting over in America with the caveat they stayed behind? Could that have set him off if he didn’t want to go or if he felt like the future he had planned for himself in Japan was no longer attainable?

Could he have felt projected his feelings of being ostracized and rejected by his own parents onto the Miyazawas because they seemed like the perfect loving family and it wasn’t fair? Or did they represent what he thought what his family should have been or what he thought they were until they betrayed him?

I also thought about what you mentioned in that he possibly studied medicine and wonder if his parents had their last straw if he received a bad or failing grade or something awful happening that affected his enrollment or future academics.

Good points.

Also, with that in mind do you think it is possible that if one or both of his parents stayed behind that they left the Buddhist statue at the Miyazawa home out of sense of both faith, if they are practitioners, or a sense of guilt or responsibility? Just a random thought after reading more on the Yokota base and recent ceremonies they have hosted.

I know nothing about this. Can someone explain coz this is the first time I am reading about this?

Also, why do you think he bought a knife, especially such an unfit one as the video emphasized, instead of just taking one from home? Do you think that perhaps his parents were watching him close and would know something was wrong if he exhibited signs of disturbing behavior? He could have easily carried one from home and washed it before leaving so I was wondering if you think there is any significance to that all?

Interesting question.

Re: Unfit knife, not from his home

Two things. He might not be living in a home per se, but maybe hostel or camp or someplace, where you might not have your kitchen but instead get your food from a mess or canteen.

Secondly, the knife is the one thing sure to get blood on it. Maybe he always meant to discard the knife at the house. So it would make sense to get a knife that is far from the norm as possible. Maybe he even saw the knife being used by some workers in kitchen or the fishing industry and thought it would be an easy way to distract the LE.

I don’t think he regularly used the knife before coz he would probably have found out the lack of guard and its injuring potential. So I think it’s fairly reasonable to assume that the knife might have always been intended to be dropped.

MOO and good work.

All just MOO TIA

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

I know nothing about this. Can someone explain coz this is the first time I am reading about this?

Sure, I will try my best!

Close to river behind the Miyazawa home someone seems to have left or dedicated statue of Jizo Bodhisattva who is believed to protect children who die prematurely and those who are been stillborn, unborn and aborted. Jizo Bodhisattva Is a Buddhist figure who protects children both in this life and the next.

I find the idea of this comforting but the articles I posted below mention that it is also a source of debate because some people believe that it was possibly left by the killer himself or someone who knew the killer and felt guilty about what he had done. I think there was a lot of interesting discussions too in previous threads and @FacelessPodcast provided a lot more information too that was helpful.

Symbolic statue found near scene of murders; cops probe connection

Police on Friday revealed that a symbolic Jizo Buddhist statue was found near a house in which a family of four was murdered in Tokyo's Setagaya Ward in December 2000, 100 days after the killings.

www.japantimes.co.jp

The Scary, Strange Setagaya Family Murders

On New Year's Eve 2000, the Miyazawas, a middle-class family in Japan, were found brutally butchered with no explanations or suspects to be found.

smol.news

 

[Janitor101]

I should’ve said that this is assuming the killer wasn’t actually Japanese / he has some kind of link to the US.

Which I would bet my bottom dollar he does.

Still a fair chance he’s Japanese, of course. But even then, being able to eliminate him from any known family tree in a pool of 320 million people would still be very useful. Not to mention we could use his DNA for genetic phenotyping to ‘see’ his face.

So glad you mentioned "phenotyping" as I couldn't remember what the heck it was called. Why not develop this phenotype and use a buzz cut on this guy and release it to the general public? It may or may not generate a lead due to the length of time that has passed, but it is still worth a shot.

Just a comment here. I don't feel he cut himself quite as badly as we think. It's odd to me he would have chosen a light colored sweater to make his escape if he had a bleeding wound, and a sanitary napkin would have been quite bulky, as well as unsightly which would have drawn more attention to his problem by onlookers. Did he also steal a coat, perhaps?

Lastly, if he was living on base in the armed services, would he have sought attention for his wounds by a physician on base, and did the police look into that angle?

 

[fridaybaker]

Exactly, they're all for tearing it down (as is the City, who owns it). It was only because Ann Irie kicked up that fuss (which is absolutely her right) and brought the media in, that stopped them from doing that. As I understand it, they weren't aware that she was going to do that at all. You would assume it's just a matter of time, though.

The frustrating thing is that the killer's DNA is almost certainly still in that house. I'm friends with one of the world's leading experts in familial DNA. What we could learn about the killer alone would move the dial significantly here. Let alone actually having a chance at maybe linking him to extant family trees etc.

Nic, is it worth having someone else approach Ann Irie? I know I've taken a shot at this subject before, and asked if it could have been something small, even some little nuance, in the asking of the DNA testing question that elicited her, apparently, quite adamant negative response.

Also, if I recall, the question that was asked of her included some reference to your podcast or other "media". Would it be worth it to have someone else ask her again? A slightly different approach/wording of the question, perhaps?

Such as: A new (to her) person asking in this way: Today, in 2024, it would be virtually guaranteed that we could find the killer if we had his DNA.... No mention of podcasts, etc. What do you think?

 

[fridaybaker]

This is an interesting angle that I'd never considered before. Particularly because, in my own limited experience with the Samaritans phone line in the UK, confidentiality is an important part of the process. Often people that are going to die don't want to be alone. If the killer committed suicide straight after, though 1) he would had to have done it in a way that didn't raise any 'red flags' to the authorities and been cremated before the Chief had a chance to get his court order on all unidentified male bodies (which would've come later anyway). Or 2) killed himself in isolation and his body still hasn't been found.

Either option is possible. But suicide would imply an overwhelming guilt, which requires a humanity that my heart tells me he lacks -- JMO.

The original poster mentioned suicide calls on the night of, or in the days after, the murder. I would add that the days leading up to it would maybe be of interest as well.

Nic, your comment about suicide implying overwhelming guilt (requiring humanity) is certainly relevant for after the murder, but I wonder about before it: If we consider that this was a rage triggered by some event, could that event have, at some point, also triggered feelings of despair? Are those two things mutually exclusive in a case like this?

Thoughts anyone?

 

[BatataPoha]

Whats the latest on the Buddha statue @FacelessPodcast ? I would like to speculate but only after ascertaining whats the latest in this regard so that we don’t regurgitate something that might be erroneous.

 

[BatataPoha]

The original poster mentioned suicide calls on the night of, or in the days after, the murder. I would add that the days leading up to it would maybe be of interest as well.

Nic, your comment about suicide implying overwhelming guilt (requiring humanity) is certainly relevant for after the murder, but I wonder about before it: If we consider that this was a rage triggered by some event, could it have, at some point, also triggered feelings of despair? Are those two things mutually exclusive in a case like this?

Thoughts anyone?

Could be possible, but to me it doesn’t feel like a crime borne out of despair or a killer having too much guilt afterwards. I think the kills make sense to the killer, they have some warped logic for him there and its not by chance or accident that he killed them,

Not to mention the fact that the ambush and the kills required a strong degree of planning and mental fortitude to execute flawless, and while the kills themselves might not be perfect, it is fairly reasonable that the killer again regains control of those senses pretty soon after cooling down.

Not an expert, so ofcourse anything is possible if we assume the human psyche in a population to be in the form of a bell shaped curve assuming normal distribution.

JMO

 

[fridaybaker]

Regarding the Buddha statue in general, I never really understood why anyone thought that it might have been connected to this case. If I recall, it was found a half a mile or something like that from the crime scene. Does anyone remember if there was anything else, aside from location, that would have connected it to the case?

 

[Incoherent]

Regarding the Buddha statue in general, I never really understood why anyone thought that it might have been connected to this case. If I recall, it was found a half a mile or something like that from the crime scene. Does anyone remember if there was anything else, aside from location, that would have connected it to the case?

It had the number six 六 carved into the bottom of it, which was Rei’s age when he died.
It was also 59cm in height and 19.5kg in weight, so not something small and relatively weightless that could just be left around. Someone put it there 4 months after the murder.
To date I don’t think anything else has come of that.
But the TMPD still deems it an item of interest and the information is still on their website about the statue asking for people to contact them about it.

 

[Charlot123]

Random thoughts fwiw.
Maybe one big reason that the M family was chosen to be attacked by the perp, is because each member, including the father, is smaller than the perp.

Wondering if the sight of a lot of blood is less disturbing to someone (usually male) with colour blindness?

Impact of Color Blindness on Recognition of Blood in Body Fluids

Background Color blindness is a common hereditary X-linked disorder.Objective To investigate whether color blindness affects the ability to detect the presence of blood in body fluids.Methods Ten color-blind subjects and 20 sex- and age-matched control subjects were shown 94...

jamanetwork.com

'Color blindness is a common hereditary disorder in men. Most color-blind persons (up to 98%) have red-green color deficiency of varying degrees.2 This study has demonstrated that red-green color-blind persons are significantly less able to identify whether photographs of stool, urine, or sputum depict blood compared with non–color-blind age- and sex-matched controls. '

That’s a very good question.

Color blindness - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Being red-green colorblind (most common) would automatically disqualify you for several professions. I don’t remember about the driving.

However, fainting as the result of seeing blood is not the blood color. Colorblind people would see blood, they’d recognize the smell, they’d simply see this world in a little bit different color. They respond not to the red color of blood, they respond to the perception that “it is blood”. For example, if you plop the piece of a liver (the closest thing to blood I can think of) in front of them, would they recognize its liver? Surely. Texture, form, smell… it will probably look more brownish-yellowish to them but that’s all.

(BTW, blood in stool doesn’t look red, it looks black so I don’t know what they show to their subjects.)