Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat, 4 Feb 2024 *Arrest* #11

[SouthAussie]

We know almost nothing about this case. Police have not leaked a single piece of evidence that the accused is guilty. This remarkable compared to the US where something would have leaked by now.

Sub judice. Once the accused was charged, anything which potentially may cause an unfair trial must not be spoken of.

 

[HoneyBunOne]

Yes, it is only a Committal Mention. I don't think it can be delayed (or not by very much) as there is a time limit in which it must be held.

After the Committal Mention comes a Committal Hearing, or a Sec 198 hearing instead, then the trial. A trial is a long way off, more that a year at least. imo

Sometimes there are even more Mentions before a trial, depending on what matters need to be settled between the parties prior to a trial.

• A committal mention must be held within 6 months after the commencement of the criminal proceeding for the offence (section 126(1)(b) of the CPA). An exception applies if the matter relates to a sexual office, in which case a committal mention must be held within 3 months after the commencement of criminal proceedings (section 126(1)(a) of the CPA).

Committal Stream (Serious Crime) | Dribbin & Brown Criminal Lawyers

If a matter is destined to proceed in the Committal stream, (i.e. it will eventually end up in either the County Court or the Supreme Court)

www.criminalsolicitorsmelbourne.com.au

PS was charged on March 6th, meaning he'd need to have the committal hearing by September 6th. I believe it is currently set for August 8th, the same date as his traffic offence hearing.

 

[SouthAussie]

PS was charged on March 6th, meaning he'd need to have the committal hearing by September 6th. I believe it is currently set for August 8th, the same date as his traffic offence hearing.

Yes, so it can't be delayed by very much. IF it is delayed. Probably the only reason in which it would get a few weeks delay is if his lawyer has not had the opportunity to go through the brief of evidence.

The committal mention will be done and dusted in a heartbeat. I don't think we should expect much from the mention. Maybe a plea is all.

Erin Patterson had one committal mention, then she had 2nd committal mention a month later. Because she changed lawyers.
It may be next year before she even goes for her committal hearing. She wants a Sec 198 hearing instead, to test the evidence.
Her lawyer wants her trial held in a court local to her (not Supreme Court in Melbourne) so they are arguing about that. Her trial is yonks away.

imo

 

[Rocket333]

Yes, so it can't be delayed by very much. IF it is delayed. Probably the only reason in which it would get a few weeks delay is if his lawyer has not had the opportunity to go through the brief of evidence.

The committal mention will be done and dusted in a heartbeat. I don't think we should expect much from the mention. Maybe a plea is all.

Erin Patterson had one committal mention, then she had 2nd committal mention a month later. Because she changed lawyers. It may be next year before she even goes for her committal hearing. Her lawyer wants her trial held in a court local to her (not Supreme Court in Melbourne) so they are arguing about that. Her trial is yonks away.

imo

So when do we start hearing about evidence and the investigation? From the pre-trial hearing if it goes to trial?

 

[SouthAussie]

So when do we start hearing about evidence and the investigation? From the pre-trial hearing if it goes to trial?

I am not sure how much evidence we will hear before the trial. (Presuming he will plead not guilty).
Even from the committal hearing, where the judge decides if there is enough evidence to take PS to trial.

Sub judice will be in effect until the trial, in an effort to be able to seat an untainted jury.

Sometimes we hear that the prosecution "will allege" this or that at the trial, after the committal hearing.

imo

For example, before Justin Stein went to trial we heard that the prosecution "will allege" he shot Charlise.
Now that the trial has happened we learned that he (allegedly - no verdict yet)) drugged her, shot her in the back and in the face ... and that she had no undies on when she was found.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

The first stage: The mention hearing​

All summary cases begin as a mention hearing.

In this hearing:

• the charge (the crime or offence) is read out to the accused person
• the accused person can plead guilty (which means they agree they have done the crime) or not guilty.

If the accused person pleads guilty, the magistrate will need to decide the penalty (also called the sentence).

The magistrate may:

• make a decision on the day
• postpone their decision and sentence the accused person on a later day. This can be called an adjournment.

 

[ProfCluezo]

The first stage: The mention hearing
All summary cases begin as a mention hearing.

In this hearing:

• the charge (the crime or offence) is read out to the accused person
• the accused person can plead guilty (which means they agree they have done the crime) or not guilty.

If the accused person pleads guilty, the magistrate will need to decide the penalty (also called the sentence).

The magistrate may:

• make a decision on the day
• postpone their decision and sentence the accused person on a later day. This can be called an adjournment.

Crikey, I typically think of myself as a patient person but since joining this website I am coming to connect with another side….

The whole legal process is sooooo drawn out….

I’m wondering how other WSs remain so patient when it’s likely to be so long until we get any answers? Or is that why so many WSs follow so many different cases at once?

I admire you all for your tenacity…

Mine is dwindling I fear….

 

[SouthAussie]

Or is that why so many WSs follow so many different cases at once?

Yes. And because we want to hang around for justice to be done.

 

[ProfCluezo]

Yes. And because we want to hang around for justice to be done.

Can you possibly give some examples of cases you’ve followed where you have felt justice has been done? I’m needing some motivation to hang in for the long haul….

The last cases I followed were Ristevski which was so disappointing - Mr Cruel who is still a cold case - and Erin Patterson - which is a looooong way off….

I seem to have a knack for picking ones with disappointing outcomes and then getting discouraged….

 

[Dotta]

Can you possibly give some examples of cases you’ve followed where you have felt justice has been done? I’m needing some motivation to hang in for the long haul….

The last cases I followed were Ristevski which was so disappointing - Mr Cruel who is still a cold case u - and Erin Patterson - which is a looooong way off….

I seem to have a knack for picking ones with disappointing outcomes and then getting discouraged….

All trials I followed on WS finished with GUILTY verdicts.

I cannot remember even ONE with Jury deciding otherwise.

The only things Wsleuths complained about
was the length of sentences.

They usually seemed too short for most of us.
Sigh.

But hey,
I'm still a toddler Wsleuth
and I haven't followed many trials.

 

[ProfCluezo]

So a finding of “Guilty” Is what constitutes justice for most here?

 

[Dotta]

So a finding of “Guilty” Is what constitutes justice for most here?

Ouch!!!!

I meant trials I followed
So
I can only speak for myself.

 

[SouthAussie]

Can you possibly give some examples of cases you’ve followed where you have felt justice has been done? I’m needing some motivation to hang in for the long haul….

The last cases I followed were Ristevski which was so disappointing - Mr Cruel who is still a cold case - and Erin Patterson - which is a looooong way off….

I seem to have a knack for picking ones with disappointing outcomes and then getting discouraged….

Ones that spring to mind right away ....

Sarah Cafferkey (murdered by Steven Hunter)
Kylie Blackwood (murdered by Scott Murdoch)
Allison Baden Clay (murdered by her husband, Gerard Baden Clay)
Jill Meagher (murdered by Adrian Bayley)
Lisa Harnum (murdered by her fiance, Simon Gittany)
Lynette Dawson - look how long that one took! (murdered by her husband, Chris Dawson)
Jennifer Ramsaran (murdered by her husband, Ganesh Ramsaran)

 

[ProfCluezo]

Ouch!!!!

Sorry Dotta, that wasn’t meant in an offensive way, just out of curiosity…. Personally I struggle with the concept that the law ever delivers true “justice” (I’d love for it to be possible for crimes to be un-done but sadly no one has figured out how to do that ), so my question came from a genuinely curious place of wondering how others perceive “justice” to be done…. And what brings peace/comfort/satisfaction to others… to the degree that any such comfort or satisfaction is possible, that is…

No offense intended - I truly admire you all for your commitment to following such lengthy cases to the end of the legal determination motivated by a desire to see that actual perpetrators are found guilty….

 

[SouthAussie]

Sorry Dotta, that wasn’t meant in an offensive way, just out of curiosity…. Personally I struggle with the concept that the law ever delivers true “justice” (I’d love for it to be possible for crimes to be un-done but sadly no one has figured out how to do that ), so my question came from a genuinely curious place of wondering how others perceive “justice” to be done…. And what brings peace/comfort/satisfaction to others… to the degree that any such comfort or satisfaction is possible, that is…

No offense intended - I admire you all for your commitment to following such lengthy cases to the end of the legal determination.

When we hear that someone (Sarah Cafferkey) was attacked with a hammer, stabbed 17 times, stuffed into a rubbish bin, and covered in cement .... yes, I want the killer caught and imprisoned.

Partly so he can't harm anyone else. And partly because he viciously murdered a young woman, and treated her worse than a piece of rubbish.

 

[ProfCluezo]

When we hear that someone (Sarah Cafferkey) was attacked with a hammer, stabbed 17 times, stuffed into a rubbish bin, and covered in cement .... yes, I want the killer caught and imprisoned.
Partly so he can't harm anyone else. And partly because he viciously murdered a young woman.

Thank you - oh yes of course…. The prevention of future tragedy is, I guess, a form of “proactive justice” that I hadn’t even factored in …. Critically important - thanks SouthAussie
That does help to lift my morale a bit more…

 

[Rocket333]

Thank you - oh yes of course…. The prevention of future tragedy is, I guess, a form of “proactive justice” that I hadn’t even factored in …. Critically important - thanks SouthAussie
That does help to lift my morale a bit more…

Relevant as we wait for this case to shimmy along. The pre-trial hearing for Toyah Cordingley has finally begun with snippets of info being revealed. This is almost 6 years after Toyah died on a Cairns beach in 2018.

Is a pre-trial hearing the same as a committal hearing?

“Mr Singh, who was charged with murder in March 2023, has not entered a plea but has maintained his innocence. The pre-trial hearing has been adjourned until June 3 and the trial itself is scheduled to begin in Cairns in July.“

Cairns woman Toyah Cordingley in secret relationship before her alleged murder, court hears

During a pre-trial hearing for murder accused Rajwinder Singh, the Supreme Court hears that 24-year-old Toyah Cordingley had started a secret relationship with her podiatrist in the weeks before her death and believed her partner knew "something was off".

www.abc.net.au

 

[Minaka]

We know almost nothing about this case. Police have not leaked a single piece of evidence that the accused is guilty. This remarkable compared to the US where something would have leaked by now.

I'm not one to ever re-post something, but quite a few threads back I posted what I thought was a very curious map and timeline of police activities very close to where the phone was discovered. I was hoping for a little more comment on it. So one last shot.

3 months prior to the discovery of SM's phone, the police helicopter landed just 2kms from where they would eventually find it in the dam. What's unusual is, the helicopter landed for at least an hour on a nearby farm.

Then one month later, a search base is established not far from the helicopter landing site.

Perhaps I'm overthinking this, however the short distances between these events spanning months I find remarkable.

 

[Rocket333]

I'm not one to ever re-post something, but quite a few threads back I posted what I thought was a very curious map and timeline of police activities very close to where the phone was discovered. I was hoping for a little more comment on it. So one last shot.

3 months prior to the discovery of SM's phone, the police helicopter landed just 2kms from where they would eventually find it in the dam. What's unusual is, the helicopter landed for at least an hour on a nearby farm.

Then one month later, a search base is established not far from the helicopter landing site.

Perhaps I'm overthinking this, however the short distances between these events spanning months I find remarkable.

View attachment 509727

I doubt it’s a coincidence and suspect it’s leads and tip-offs that keeps them circling similar areas. The focus on that dam was very specific, as though the tip-off was recent and straightforward, ie “Something was thrown out the window as we drove past x spot”. There looks to be a few dams around the helicopter landing site too. I wonder if he visited these places to do electrical work and became familiar with the homes and properties and the owners routines. JMO

 

[HoneyBunOne]

Sorry Dotta, that wasn’t meant in an offensive way, just out of curiosity…. Personally I struggle with the concept that the law ever delivers true “justice” (I’d love for it to be possible for crimes to be un-done but sadly no one has figured out how to do that ), so my question came from a genuinely curious place of wondering how others perceive “justice” to be done…. And what brings peace/comfort/satisfaction to others… to the degree that any such comfort or satisfaction is possible, that is…

No offense intended - I truly admire you all for your commitment to following such lengthy cases to the end of the legal determination motivated by a desire to see that actual perpetrators are found guilty….

Justice..... I guess we'd have to ask the loved ones of the victims what they feel justice is.

For me, I guess it's to take someone's freedom away and make them feel regretful and remorseful for their crime, for a timeframe appropriate to their actions. Or is that just revenge? True justice can never really be achieved, as the crime can't be reversed as you say. I think if the person leaves prison a new and improved version of themselves, with regret, and a desire to be their best selves, I think that's the best we can hope for. Of course some criminals should never be released, if their crimes are particularly heinous. I don't necessarily believe that life in jail (up to 25 years in Australia) is enough. I believe parole and early release is ridiculous. Your sentence should be your sentence, no ifs, buts or maybes. In this case, if PS is found guilty and given 25 years, he'll be out this side of 50. Roughly Samantha's age. He'll have the ability to marry, have children and grandchildren, and recommence life. He'll get to live the second half of his life free, an option not available to his alleged victim.