Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

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The TMPD also think the sand doesn’t lead to anywhere,
RSBM: Incorrect. Officially, they have said nothing about it. The Chief was reticent to talk about that sand. That’s very different. My mind is open, as I have continually said, I discount very little here. The difference is, the sand was on the killer’s person. The statue was not.

but we have to keep an open mind here, esp in a cold case. I can think of a number of reasons why they wouldn’t think too much of it, simply because they think the killer is likely a foreigner while the status is culturally Japanese.
The TMPD take no position in the killer’s nationality. The only time this has ever even been mentioned was by the Chief telling me that personally, his first thought was the killer was foreign. That isn’t his actual opinion, however.
Its a 20 kg status left behind the house, presumably at the path the killer took.
Why do you presume he took that route?
Not in the front which might have been common. Its not an easy statue to move around, and its quite distinctive enough for people around the area to identify as belonging to someone in that area. No one has claimed it, despite the TMPD still having it up their website.



Or maybe a foreigner deeply ingrained in the Japanese culture, or Buddhist culture, who might have experienced something similar in their own life (premature death of own children). Its not totally out of the realm of possibility.
Absolutely true.
The statue might not be related to the killer, but could be related to the crime itself.

Its not totally impossible for a Japanese military contractor, engineer or technican to make those visits to the States and the beach.
Not impossible at all, no. I have found two Japanese pilots who spent time at Edwards. But there are far more Americans there, as with Yokota.
The Japanese military was suppling weapons in the war of terror in Iraq. and that collaboration didn’t just start out randomly.

As for the rest of your points, if a foreigner can be relatively unconnected to the Miyazawas, so can a Japanese tbh. And if he never committed a crime again, his fingerprints wouldn’t be in a database. So again not as unlikely as one might think.
Of course it can be a Japanese. As I have said a million times.
 
Nic, I think your POI, if I recall correctly, is the son of a Korean-American, or the son of an American of Korean descent.

If this is, indeed, the case, I'm wondering this: How well would a "Korean-American" family/kid be accepted in Japan? He would likely have a Korean/Chinese sounding last name, vs. a Japanese one, so I'd think it would be evident to those he came across that he was possibly of Korean descent (rather than Chinese).

I'm not sure where, or if, this would fit into this case, but it's just something I thought of recently.
 
RSBM: Incorrect. Officially, they have said nothing about it. The Chief was reticent to talk about that sand. That’s very different. My mind is open, as I have continually said, I discount very little here. The difference is, the sand was on the killer’s person. The statue was not.

The TMPD clearly aren’t too fussed about the sand, as evidenced by your excellent podcast. Ofcourse, they might still have it in consideration, but they are more willing to chase random Korean workers who aren’t on any records. In the hierarchy of things, its fair to assume they aren’t getting much from the sand in their current mode of investigation.

You are right about the sand being on the killer and the statue not. But the sand has atleast been geographically identified, whereas the statue has not. Its a 20 kg granite statue, presumably costing a decent amout, and yet its totally unaccounted for. The TMPD can trace the origin of most of the killer’s clothing, but not this statue.

How is a random local Japanese guy getting their hands on this statue? If its from a local retailer, surely the TMPd could have traced that by now. If it was imported by the general public, there must be customs records.

Not to mention carrying it and placing in, presumably in the night (as there are no witnesses) again doesnt seem to scream innocence either.
The TMPD take no position in the killer’s nationality. The only time this has ever even been mentioned was by the Chief telling me that personally, his first thought was the killer was foreign. That isn’t his actual opinion, however.

That is his offical position. I find it unlikely that that is his department’s real working opinion. They have spent hours and hours on this case. They are chasing random Korean workers. That could be covering their bases but more likely They definitely have a profile in their mind, likely a foreigner, but offourse they don’t want to say it out loud for legal/ethical reasons.
Why do you presume he took that route?

The back of house? It seems like a shorter route to a major road. Just my assumption

In any ways, its a major coincidence that the killer entered and exited the house relatively unnoticed and 3 full months later, someone again manages to do the same, this time around with a 20kg statue.
Absolutely true.

Not impossible at all, no. I have found two Japanese pilots who spent time at Edwards. But there are far more Americans there, as with Yokota.

Of course it can be a Japanese. As I have said a million times.

Agreed.

All MOO.
 
Nic, I think your POI, if I recall correctly, is the son of a Korean-American, or the son of an American of Korean descent.

If this is, indeed, the case, I'm wondering this: How well would a "Korean-American" family/kid be accepted in Japan? He would likely have a Korean/Chinese sounding last name, vs. a Japanese one, so I'd think it would be evident to those he came across that he was possibly of Korean descent (rather than Chinese).

I'm not sure where, or if, this would fit into this case, but it's just something I thought of recently.
FWIW, Apparently the 6 inscribed on the statue is in Chinese , according to this post here.

 
Nic, I think your POI, if I recall correctly, is the son of a Korean-American, or the son of an American of Korean descent.

If this is, indeed, the case, I'm wondering this: How well would a "Korean-American" family/kid be accepted in Japan? He would likely have a Korean/Chinese sounding last name, vs. a Japanese one, so I'd think it would be evident to those he came across that he was possibly of Korean descent (rather than Chinese).

I'm not sure where, or if, this would fit into this case, but it's just something I thought of recently.
I'm going to answer this with a massive disclaimer that I am not Japanese nor Korean, but am fairly familiar with some aspects of this cultural question. Others who actually are those backgrounds can and should jump in to correct me if I get the nuances wrong.

The tl;dr is that this is a major complicated question with a lot of potential facets that wouldn't occur to someone at first glance, especially someone from a western background. It's very much an individual thing. So a couple of those that I can think of would be--

If the kid was on Yokota, it may not have had a big impact on his daily life--at least not to the same extent as it may have if he was living in Japan proper. I believe these kids go to school on base? That said, it may have, given that the US, even among its military, has race issues and unique peculiarities around how they perceive East Asians (for example, people assuming a Korean person is Japanese or Chinese; Japanese people likely wouldn't make that mistake). That's also worth considering.

Korean vs Korean-American also might matter here (like, even if he was born in America, were his parents born in America and the children of immigrants themselves, or were they the immigrants? Even today people who left Korea in their childhood years to grow up in the US are sometimes not considered really Korean).

Obviously, Japan and Korea have a contentious history that is very much not water under the bridge. That's a potential complication I alluded to in the earlier thread, in that if a Korean or Korean-American was arrested for this in Japan, there absolutely would be people believing he was framed on the basis of his ethnicity. And much like people who are Black in the US have a good reason to distrust the (largely white) law system, Koreans have a very good reason to distrust the Japanese justice system. Doesn't necessarily mean that there's always a prejudice-fueled conspiracy in every individual case or that the killer can't be Korean or Korean-American.

What this in particular has to do with how he may have been treated in Japan (pre-crime) is not really possible to say aside from that basically, there's potential for there to have been issues and a generalized hurt arising from this, yes. But there's also a fair degree of cultural exchange and Korean cultural centers and schools in Japan, including in Tokyo, so there's not a guarantee of that either.
 
FWIW, Apparently the 6 inscribed on the statue is in Chinese , according to this post here.

Thanks so much for linking this article! My memory was way off. It states that the statue was found 100 days after the murders, "on the side of a road running alongside a river at the back of the house on the morning of April 9, 2001." So much closer than I had thought.

Also, as you point out, the number 6 was inscribed on the statue in.....Chinese. That's interesting. I also never understood the significance of the number, as I thought it was likely part of the statue. As I read the article; however, it certainly looks as if someone bought the statue, then inscribed the number.

Do any of your folk who are familiar with/live in Japan have any thoughts on the inscription being in Chinese?

Also, I suppose the killer could have left it there, but I would place bets more on either a member of the general public doing it, or also possible, but less likely, a family member of the murderer who became aware of the killings.

I have a much harder time seeing the killer doing it himself. Too compassionate. Also the timeline. Even if he hadn't already skedaddled out of the country by then, it's hard to see him risking going back to the "scene of the crime", statue in hand...
 
About the sand.
- even it is from the Edwards base, or around is, as the sand has no administrative borders, it doesn't mean that the person is.
Sand travels. Lime travels. A good example: what do you think is this white powder on top of chewing gum? Very thinly ground lime. Nothing else works. Now, I am not sure where it comes from, if I remember correctly, from China, but all this lime has one origin. Now imagine the container shipping it. It is a huge business, but people working at that container...can be from China, can be from US, can be from India, if it comes on the shoes of the people working at the container. Can be coming from the storage place, from people making chewing gum or packaging it.

So, say, if a murder has occurred in China or the US and someone found traces of "this very lime" next to it, it may not automatically imply that the person lives next to this lime quarry.

Same with the sand. The sand is used in so many businesses that even if it comes from this or that place (I am not sure that the certitude is ever 100%, happy to explain why), it may be brought in different forms. JMO.
 
Written numbers in Chinese and Japanese are the same because they are kanji.

I have a question. Has anyone seen similar statues with numbers from 1 to 5 inscribed anywhere?

6 may mean, "6th child", or "the 6th family". I think the statues are standing in proximity of Buddhist temples? Was there any temple close to Miyazawa's house? They would have visited it on Jan 1-2, right?
 
Korean vs Korean-American also might matter here (like, even if he was born in America, were his parents born in America and the children of immigrants themselves, or were they the immigrants? Even today people who left Korea in their childhood years to grow up in the US are sometimes not considered really Korean).
Knowledge of Korean would probably also be a big factor- and that knowledge can shrink quickly with Korean Americans.

As a side note, I have a learned fluency in Spanish and live in an area where a significant majority of the population is Hispanic.

I noticed that Mexicans will very quickly list a Hispanic as "not really Mexican" or simply "not Mexican- period" if they do not speak fluent Spanish with a native flair. Even those speaking passable Spanish still get the "not really Mexican" designation. Learned fluency? Not going to count. The fact that they self identify as "Mexican" does not matter.

I would not be surprised if Koreans would have the same language expectation to be affirmed as "truly Korean".
 
Knowledge of Korean would probably also be a big factor- and that knowledge can shrink quickly with Korean Americans.

As a side note, I have a learned fluency in Spanish and live in an area where a significant majority of the population is Hispanic.

I noticed that Mexicans will very quickly list a Hispanic as "not really Mexican" or simply "not Mexican- period" if they do not speak fluent Spanish with a native flair. Even those speaking passable Spanish still get the "not really Mexican" designation. Learned fluency? Not going to count. The fact that they self identify as "Mexican" does not matter.

I would not be surprised if Koreans would have the same language expectation to be affirmed as "truly Korean".

As an immigrant: it is the mentality that makes our bilingual kids Americans. I would assume the same would be true for Korean-Americans, even speaking flawless Korean. Plus, I don't believe there is a huge pressure for Korean-Americans to "fit back into" Korean society. I also think it would be difficult, especially for women.

The opposite is true. Korean history is shockingly hard. All big neighbors... "sapient sat est". But from my observation of Koreans that were displaced from Russian far East to Central Asia, or the ones who came to US via Japan, or the ones who managed to migrate to South Korea during the Korean war, people have an amazing ability to survive any adversity and adjust to any society, any life and any hardship. While there is historic memory, on an individual level they don't want to look back. So while I have a strong suspicion that the killer could have some historic grudge, on an individual level he just wanted to kill. Was it internet-driven, or something else? No idea.
 
Since we’re on the topic of the Jizo statue and Sengawa walk, and geography of the house, I looked through my videos and photos and I actually do have some that I took from just a few months ago in March this year.

I’ve uploaded them for anyone who would like to view and find it helpful.

The back of the house leading down to the Sengawa river walk, the path, and the side of the house on the Irie side:

Walking back from the Sengawa river walk into the kid’s park, view of the road in front, and back of the house:

Walking from the main road in front of the kid’s park, down the road on the Miyazawa side of the house, view of the skate park and tennis court:
 
Final video as one post can only have three max:

Walking into the kid’s park from its entrance and proximity of the house:

In another video it seems I may have inadvertently captured someone very similar Setsuko Miyazawa in the park, as it’s a very short old woman at the back of the house in the kid’s park by herself touching the wall. It may not be, but from videos I’ve seen of her it looks like it could be her. Which made me a bit sad.
 
Final video as one post can only have three max:

Walking into the kid’s park from its entrance and proximity of the house:

In another video it seems I may have inadvertently captured someone very similar Setsuko Miyazawa in the park, as it’s a very short old woman at the back of the house in the kid’s park by herself touching the wall. It may not be, but from videos I’ve seen of her it looks like it could be her. Which made me a bit sad.

Was Mikio the only child? If yes, then she lost everyone...
 
if this was indeed a targeted killing by an American living on base, I’m struggling to see how the perp actually got to the point of “I’m going to harm this family AND I know where they live”. Was the initial connection made elsewhere (eg shopping in Ogikubo) and he followed them home? Or did he visit the park one day and have a chance encounter with the family; or did he have intrusive thoughts about how those houses were pretty isolated?

It’s just hard for me to see how an American student living fairly far away would get to a point where he was targeting this specific family in this specific house. Especially since TMPD so thoroughly investigated the obvious connection points - the skate park, Yasuko’s students, etc.

For an American-born student living in Japan, Asian or not, I’d expect the footwear to be wider, and everything bigger. TMPD is debating whether the sneakers were from Japan or those sold in Korea. The perp bought Japanese sizes. The perpetrator fit into Mikio’s clothes. Inevitable question to @FacelessPodcast…
 
I have a question. Has anyone seen similar statues with numbers from 1 to 5 inscribed anywhere?

6 may mean, "6th child", or "the 6th family". I think the statues are standing in proximity of Buddhist temples? Was there any temple close to Miyazawa's house? They would have visited it on Jan 1-2, right?
I haven’t lifted any statues to check honestly, but I would say it isn’t a usual thing to do.

Statues that are for dead children are often dressed in knitted clothing to keep them “warm”. You can see them congregated around shrines everywhere in the country, but Jizo are also placed in forests and along paths as they are protectors of people that are travelling.
Here is what Jizo for dead children look like oftentimes:
IMG_3274.jpeg

A Jizo being on the Sengawa river walk wouldn’t be out of place even if the murders hadn’t happened. But it’s the fact this one appeared so soon after, was placed close, and had the number carved in the bottom. That’s a bit suspicious, but as we’ve been discussing here it could also be not suspicious at all.

As for shrines and temples they are all over the place, especially in Tokyo. You’re never really far from one in most places.
 
I haven’t seen any mention of Mikio having siblings.
Incoherent....I couldn't watch the very last video you posted and couldn't find anything on dailymotion. Could you repost the last video?

I find the park aspect to be interesting as I have read that the grandmother often allowed the children to play in the park unsupervised. I have often felt this perpetrator was a loner who existed on the fringe of society without ever forming many friendships, and basically felt like an outcast within his own peer group. He could very well have been frequently lurking in the children's park and watching the routine of the family.
 
Nic, I think your POI, if I recall correctly, is the son of a Korean-American, or the son of an American of Korean descent.

If this is, indeed, the case, I'm wondering this: How well would a "Korean-American" family/kid be accepted in Japan? He would likely have a Korean/Chinese sounding last name, vs. a Japanese one, so I'd think it would be evident to those he came across that he was possibly of Korean descent (rather than Chinese).

I'm not sure where, or if, this would fit into this case, but it's just something I thought of recently.
I mean I can only answer anecdotally here. Friends I know who have mixed-race kids in Japan, or kids who were born in Japan but to foreign parents -- some are super happy, others are bullied. The rate of kids born in Japan to at least one foreign parent is climbing all the time, though it is, of course, one of the least ethnically-diverse nations on earth. Me personally, in all the times I've been in Japan, I've never encountered what I would say is overt racism. Maybe more sh*tty assumptions on a rare occasion. But the main issue I've seen, (and as I say, this is just my own anecdote), is the assumption that you will neither speak Japanese nor understand the custom. And in a society where there are many regulations and customs, in a society where it's widely assumed you're just a tourist, some do avoid the awkwardness or potential conflict in having to explain things to you. This is why a sign outside a bar that reads NO TOURISTS might initially seem racist. And it possibly is. But it's also possible that the bar has particular rules and it's too complicated to explain to foreigners etc. In my own experience, I can tell you that Japanese people almost always want to avoid conflict. Maybe this might come off as cold or closed. But yeah, I think what annoys my foreign friends who live in Japan above all is just the assumption that you're only passing through, that you don't belong.

Anyway, after that brain dump, I can only really say that nowhere is a monolith. But if we're talking in generalities, while a Korean-American might while experience a lot of bullying at school in Tokyo, it's also possible that they're super well-adjusted and had a whale of a time. Anything is possible here.

But ultimately, I don't think the killer was going to school in Japan -- technically. My feeling is that he was at school on a US air base. Which is just basically being at school in America. Would he experience a lack of acceptance there? Seeing as the base is in Asia, less likely. I hold US citizenship, I've lived there for years -- it's a hard one to answer and just guess-work. In some respects, I've found the US to be deeply, deeply racist. In others, it's far more embracing of its inherent diversity and mixture than the parts of Europe I grew up in. Could a Korean-American kid experience ostracisation? Absolutely. Though it seems less likely given the context and the location. All JMO.
 
The TMPD clearly aren’t too fussed about the sand, as evidenced by your excellent podcast. Ofcourse, they might still have it in consideration, but they are more willing to chase random Korean workers who aren’t on any records. In the hierarchy of things, its fair to assume they aren’t getting much from the sand in their current mode of investigation.
RSBM: I appreciate you saying that about the podcast. And you're welcome to your inferences about it, of course. But respectfully, they are incorrect. Having been in those conversations, I think it's important to be very clear. My interviews went on for long stretches. Every single question I had was answered. To be fair, I experienced a great deal of openness. Now, that said: there was only one single topic I was dodged on. The sand. On this, a few things were admitted, some of which I've shared in this thread. A few I've had to keep back. But when I asked, "so it's still entirely possible the killer was in the US or is from the US?" the answer was yes. There was even awkward laughter that followed. So, I will reiterate; not one single good reason was ever given for why the sand and, by extension, the US was never investigated.

Now, you can assume they are not fussed. But being in that room, that was not my reading. I think there is an entirely different reason for why they do not pursue that sand, one which I have been open about many times in this thread and am frankly sick of repeating. I may well be wildly wrong. There may be a totally different reason. If so, I don't know it.
You are right about the sand being on the killer and the statue not. But the sand has atleast been geographically identified, whereas the statue has not. Its a 20 kg granite statue, presumably costing a decent amout, and yet its totally unaccounted for. The TMPD can trace the origin of most of the killer’s clothing, but not this statue.

How is a random local Japanese guy getting their hands on this statue? If its from a local retailer, surely the TMPd could have traced that by now. If it was imported by the general public, there must be customs records.

Not to mention carrying it and placing in, presumably in the night (as there are no witnesses) again doesnt seem to scream innocence either.
Dumping / littering is extremely frowned on in Japan. For anyone who's ever lived there or spent time there, they'll know how hard it easy to dispose of unwanted items. Maybe the statue is connected to the killer, I don't say that it's not. Just that there isn't anything obvious that says so.

And yes, Rei was 6. But then again, Niina was 8. Where's her statue? Why only for the boy? Why leave it across the river? For what purpose? How do we know it wasn't for another child who died in the area of an illness? Now, you used the word innocence. But that implies we have anything solid to link it to some kind of wrong. And we just don't have that. We don't know that it wasn't simply someone leaving it behind because they no longer wanted it. We don't know that it wasn't an elderly local who had it left there and missed the TMPD appeals on it.
That is his offical position. I find it unlikely that that is his department’s real working opinion. They have spent hours and hours on this case. They are chasing random Korean workers. That could be covering their bases but more likely They definitely have a profile in their mind, likely a foreigner, but offourse they don’t want to say it out loud for legal/ethical reasons.
Which random Korean workers are they chasing? I would like to know where you are finding that information. To my knowledge, they have been to Korea to chase up on the shoes and they have asked the authorities there to run the killer's fingerprints against their national database. That's it.

I'll be the first one to acknowledge / criticise Japanese LE. But when you say that they 'definitely have a profile in mind, likely a foreigner', I'd like to know what you're basing that on. Because as far as I know, they ONLY men that they have questioned have been Japanese. (Men with hand injuries in the days after the murders, and many, many skateboarders).
The back of house? It seems like a shorter route to a major road. Just my assumption
There are many, many routes in and out of that park. You could face in any direction and find a route out. I've walked them all, I've walked up and down that river. We don't know which route he took on any level, much less to a major road. We don't even know he left on foot.
In any ways, its a major coincidence that the killer entered and exited the house relatively unnoticed and 3 full months later, someone again manages to do the same, this time around with a 20kg statue.
I appreciate your ideas as ever but I disagree that it is a major coincidence. To my mind, it's unrelated until there is something that suggests a direct relation. JMO
 

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