Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[FacelessPodcast]

FWIW, Apparently the 6 inscribed on the statue is in Chinese , according to this post here.

Symbolic statue found near scene of murders; cops probe connection

Police on Friday revealed that a symbolic Jizo Buddhist statue was found near a house in which a family of four was murdered in Tokyo's Setagaya Ward in December 2000, 100 days after the killings.

www.japantimes.co.jp

It's the same in both languages.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

About the sand.
- even it is from the Edwards base, or around is, as the sand has no administrative borders, it doesn't mean that the person is.

RSBM: So is the idea that some hour glass manufacturer is going on to restricted military land in order to get their supply? Look, I can't discount that but it just doesn't make sense imo.

Sand travels. Lime travels. A good example: what do you think is this white powder on top of chewing gum? Very thinly ground lime. Nothing else works. Now, I am not sure where it comes from, if I remember correctly, from China, but all this lime has one origin. Now imagine the container shipping it. It is a huge business, but people working at that container...can be from China, can be from US, can be from India, if it comes on the shoes of the people working at the container. Can be coming from the storage place, from people making chewing gum or packaging it.

So, say, if a murder has occurred in China or the US and someone found traces of "this very lime" next to it, it may not automatically imply that the person lives next to this lime quarry.

His DNA is on that bag, his fingerprints, nobody else's. Is it possible an hour glass made with sand from an air force base was in that bag and broke and that's where we get the link to Edwards USAB? Yes, it's possible. On balance, is it as likely as him simply having been there himself? Not to me.

Same with the sand. The sand is used in so many businesses that even if it comes from this or that place (I am not sure that the certitude is ever 100%, happy to explain why), it may be brought in different forms. JMO.

As I say, Lorna Dawson said that the sand in that area can be identified. That's my only point. My question is why hasn't that already happened. 15 years of investigating this case and I'm yet to hear a single good reason. Even from the head of Seijo Police, even from the lead investigator.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Written numbers in Chinese and Japanese are the same because they are kanji.

I might've known you would have answered this already, apologies for the duplication.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Final video as one post can only have three max:

Walking into the kid’s park from its entrance and proximity of the house:

In another video it seems I may have inadvertently captured someone very similar Setsuko Miyazawa in the park, as it’s a very short old woman at the back of the house in the kid’s park by herself touching the wall. It may not be, but from videos I’ve seen of her it looks like it could be her. Which made me a bit sad.

Do you have a time stamp for her? I'm not seeing her. I'd recognise her for sure, though.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Was Mikio the only child? If yes, then she lost everyone...

I think he was, yes. It's beyond awful. Talking with Setsuko is an extremely humbling experience.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

For an American-born student living in Japan, Asian or not, I’d expect the footwear to be wider, and everything bigger. TMPD is debating whether the sneakers were from Japan or those sold in Korea. The perp bought Japanese sizes. The perpetrator fit into Mikio’s clothes. Inevitable question to @FacelessPodcast…

He's either a size 10 US or size 10.5. That's pretty big considering the TMPD think he could be as short as 5'6. Also, there's 325 million Americans (or more?).

But let's crudely say 162.5 million men. They can't all wear big clothes / have wide feet. (Ignoring all the immigrants like me, the naturalised, the refugees etc).

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Incoherent....I couldn't watch the very last video you posted and couldn't find anything on dailymotion. Could you repost the last video?

I find the park aspect to be interesting as I have read that the grandmother often allowed the children to play in the park unsupervised. I have often felt this perpetrator was a loner who existed on the fringe of society without ever forming many friendships, and basically felt like an outcast within his own peer group. He could very well have been frequently lurking in the children's park and watching the routine of the family.

We don't know a great deal about Haruko. For Setsuko, she would take them to the park herself.

But in terms of a place to watch a house / family, a park is a pretty good excuse. Bring a book or a newspaper, sit in front of it, and who's going to look at you twice?

 

[Incoherent]

Do you have a time stamp for her? I'm not seeing her. I'd recognise her for sure, though.

Sorry for the confusion, I didn’t post that video but here it is with a screenshot too:

At the time I spotted the old woman by the wall I just stared for a moment and then didn’t think about it much more. Only now looking back do I realise who it might have been.

I also know we’re pretty much past skateboarders now, but how audible that THUNK is in the beginning of the video? Must’ve been pretty annoying to the family.

 

[Incoherent]

I might've known you would have answered this already, apologies for the duplication.

Ha, no problem. I just got there before you did.

 

[BatataPoha]

Following the murders, police deduced that the clothes, including a sweater, and knife left at the scene had been bought in Kanagawa Prefecture. Three kinds of powdered fluorescent dye were found on the trainers and bag left at the scene. In the pocket of the sweater, which had only gone on sale two months before the killings took place, traces of bird dropping, Japanese zelkova tree and willow leaves were found.

How true is this? Found from this article.

Setagaya family murders remain unsolved 23 years later

Police have renewed their appeal for any information from the public that might help solve the murders of a family of four in the house in Tokyo's Setagaya Ward 23 years ago. Last week, police handed out flyers appealing for information at Seijogakuenmae train station, as they have done each…

japantoday.com

 

[BatataPoha]

Re sand : I assume sands used for the purposes of hourglasses and such to be more heterogenous or homogeneous depending upon how they are manufactured. It seems a bit incredible to me that they would have sand only from two specific sources.

Also its unlikely to be kept in a fanny pack.


Re statue : Thanks for the info @Incoherent and @FacelessPodcast although I wonder why the newspaper wrote it as Chinese if that was the case. Anyways I don’t think it changes the status quo a whole lot in either way.

 

[WhoDisDoe]

For an American-born student living in Japan, Asian or not, I’d expect the footwear to be wider, and everything bigger. TMPD is debating whether the sneakers were from Japan or those sold in Korea. The perp bought Japanese sizes. The perpetrator fit into Mikio’s clothes. Inevitable question to @FacelessPodcast…

I have to respectfully disagree on this point - I know plenty of American men who are small or average-sized by Japanese standards, including 2nd-generation Asian-Americans.

 

[Cryptic]

l

FWIW, Apparently the 6 inscribed on the statue is in Chinese , according to this post here.

It might be because its a Buddhist Statue.

Religions can have a preference for old languages: Jews with Hebrew, Muslims with Koranic Arabic ( most Muslims dont speak Arabic- and Koranic Arabic is very different than modern Arabic, The Vatican with Latin, Hindus with Sanskrit. Meanwhile, Russian Orthodox hymns can be in 'Old Church Slavonic'.

Though Buddhism was founded in India / Nepal, China was the religion's early powerhouse that spread Buddhism. So, in Vietnam, Chinese is used for Buddhist inscriptions. Newspapers, romance novels, and speeding tickets use western script from France.

In the end, I would not be surprised if Chinese characters are also traditionally used for Buddhist inscriptions in Japan as well.

 

[WhoDisDoe]

Re statue : Thanks for the info @Incoherent and @FacelessPodcast although I wonder why the newspaper wrote it as Chinese if that was the case.

Written Japanese basically uses Chinese characters (called kanji), which IIRC were imported to the language ~1000 years ago or so. (It also uses its own phonetic characters for e.g. prepositions, animal names, words imported from other languages, etc., so that written sentences look like a sort of mish-mash of multiple writing systems)

So it’s not incorrect, and might’ve just been an offhand way of saying “the number 6 was carved into the statue”. But if the article placed special emphasis on it being Chinese, that’s weird - in Japanese, numbers are always written using kanji AFAIK.

 

[Charlot123]

RSBM: So is the idea that some hour glass manufacturer is going on to restricted military land in order to get their supply? Look, I can't discount that but it just doesn't make sense imo.

His DNA is on that bag, his fingerprints, nobody else's. Is it possible an hour glass made with sand from an air force base was in that bag and broke and that's where we get the link to Edwards USAB? Yes, it's possible. On balance, is it as likely as him simply having been there himself? Not to me.

As I say, Lorna Dawson said that the sand in that area can be identified. That's my only point. My question is why hasn't that already happened. 15 years of investigating this case and I'm yet to hear a single good reason. Even from the head of Seijo Police, even from the lead investigator.

Well, respectfully, first I don't think it has geographic boundaries, so we can't just define this sand by "Edwards Air Base." What about 10 km from the base in the same desert? I am not skeptical, I am thinking of all these bodies found in Mojave desert annually.

Also, I bet there are places in any country that are off-limits for sand sampling. In my country of birth/neighboring ones I immediately thought about Baikonur, in the US there are probably still some deserts where the sampling is discouraged, the same almost everywhere. I am not skeptical, I am trying to be logical as we have NPT and some countries that have withdrawn from it. North Korea or Pakistan probably disallow sampling of all their deserts. Also, oil-bearing countries may restrict such activity, for a different reason. I just assume that in the world, there may be tons of unsampled sands.

So what we can include, per your report, would be the sand from the Mojave desert, and probably, say that from Lorna Davies collection, the composition of the one from Mojave desert most closely resembles the one from the perp's bag? It can include, but not necessarily exclude all other sands in this world. MOO.
P.S. this being said, if I were to leave my country and move somewhere as a child, the sand from a yard sandbox would be a good memento.

 

[Charlot123]

I have to respectfully disagree on this point - I know plenty of American men who are small or average-sized by Japanese standards, including 2nd-generation Asian-Americans.

I know them, too. But here are the data not for America, but for Korea.

Creatrip: How The Average Height In Korea Changed Over The Years

Creatrip: How did the average height of Koreans grow 20 cm in 100 years? A history of heights of Koreans and a closer look into factors including food consumptions and preferences.

creatrip.com

My own source is purely visual: in my school district, 44% of students are Asian and it is the largest ethnic group. There may be individual variations, of course, but they are more related to individual family genetics. Moreover, specifically Korean young men are much into muscle mass so they are pumped up and look well. I have little reason to believe that it was different 20 years ago as I know many Koreans of my age. This is where my question is. The kid who fit Mikio's clothes, if from a base, either had to be younger, 14 or so, or - may not stand out in Japan now, but stand out in the US. @FacelessPodcast, having traveled to Japan and USA, surely you understand what I mean?

My question to @FacelessPodcast is even specific - as his poi was clearly postpubertal, and had Mikio's body type, he should be of approximately Mikio's size now, right? Does that hold?

 

[Charlot123]

I haven’t lifted any statues to check honestly, but I would say it isn’t a usual thing to do.

Statues that are for dead children are often dressed in knitted clothing to keep them “warm”. You can see them congregated around shrines everywhere in the country, but Jizo are also placed in forests and along paths as they are protectors of people that are travelling.
Here is what Jizo for dead children look like oftentimes:
View attachment 510251

A Jizo being on the Sengawa river walk wouldn’t be out of place even if the murders hadn’t happened. But it’s the fact this one appeared so soon after, was placed close, and had the number carved in the bottom. That’s a bit suspicious, but as we’ve been discussing here it could also be not suspicious at all.

As for shrines and temples they are all over the place, especially in Tokyo. You’re never really far from one in most places.

I have an intuitive feeling that if we find Jizo statues with numbers on them, in the same place, that might lead somewhere.

Do you know where they are made/ordered?

 

[Cryptic]

Written Japanese basically uses Chinese characters (called kanji), which IIRC were imported to the language ~1000 years ago or so. But if the article placed special emphasis on it being Chinese, that’s weird - in Japanese, numbers are always written using kanji AFAIK.

Buddhism was also imported to Japan by way of China. I think the fact that the number is written on a religious statue could be the key.

In Vietnam, traditional temple writings are in Chinese characters. Everything else is in western script. I would not be surprised if Japan still uses straight Chinese characters in some temple use.

Though the statue is mass produced, the designers may of included Chinese characters simply because its traditional. Sort of like how mass produced Catholic saints cards can have Latin prayers or religious statements on them.

 

[WhoDisDoe]

The kid who fit Mikio's clothes, if from a base, either had to be younger, 14 or so, or - may not stand out in Japan now, but stand out in the US.

I’d also add that, at least today, there’s a wide range of sweatshirt “fits” that are considered stylish. Maybe Mikio’s sweatshirt was somewhat oversized for his frame (which IIRC was popular in the 90s), so wouldn’t have looked out of place on a larger man.

JMO, but I wouldn’t draw any strong conclusions from the killer wearing Mikio’s sweatshirt, taking into account both population variance in size (maybe the killer was just a small guy, it’s not uncommon) and variability in clothing fits/styles.

 

[WhoDisDoe]

Though the statue is mass produced, the designers may of included Chinese characters simply because its traditional.

The Chinese character is Japanese. Unlike Vietnamese, normal day-to-day written Japanese still uses Chinese characters for many/most words - including numbers.