Japan - Miyazawa family of 4 murdered, Setagaya, Tokyo, 30 Dec 2000 #3

[BatataPoha]

3 different highlighter inks means a serious kid if I am being honest. I personally never had more than two. And I was reading a 7000 pg textbook.

 

[fridaybaker]

I apologize in advance if we have covered this! I know we've talked some about how military postings go, but I can't find the exact answer to this question in the threads here or even on the internet.
In the Airforce, specifically, how/when are people transferred. Does anyone here know? Not sure of the exact terminology, but I mean how often do they change posts? And, how does that work? Are they often transferred in the middle of a school year?

If Nic's POI is the killer, I think the implication is that he left the country fairly soon after the crime, but that would have been in the middle of the school year. Possible?

I know, of course, that transfers generally "happen to one" in the military -you don't just up and decide you'd like to go somewhere else. But, does it ever happen that officers can request to be transferred to another post due to personal reasons?

Just trying to understand how likely it is that a school kid on the base would be transferred in the middle of a school year, especially if he'd been there for a few years already.

 

[fridaybaker]

The knife. I know virtually nothing about knives, but to my uneducated eye, the choice of knife screams someone who isn't really versed in knives. Maybe someone very young. (Although, as I just said, I'm not either!) However, unless one is the Black Dahlia killer, wherein he carves up his victims in surgical precision, wouldn't one think they'd need a more robust knife to murder a family? And, it apparently wasn't a good choice, seeing that it broke during the attack. I also know nothing about knives for sale in and around Tokyo, though. Perhaps this is the only kind very readily available? (Lot's of sashimi-making going on, but not much hunting?)

Anyway, I'm probably way off base, but if I were going to need a knife to cause a lot of damage to several large targets, I'd be looking for something more robust. Does this point to a very young killer? Does it point away from a killer-for-hire?

 

[BatataPoha]

The knife. I know virtually nothing about knives, but to my uneducated eye, the choice of knife screams someone who isn't really versed in knives. Maybe someone very young. (Although, as I just said, I'm not either!) However, unless one is the Black Dahlia killer, wherein he carves up his victims in surgical precision, wouldn't one think they'd need a more robust knife to murder a family? And, it apparently wasn't a good choice, seeing that it broke during the attack. I also know nothing about knives for sale in and around Tokyo, though. Perhaps this is the only kind very readily available? (Lot's of sashimi-making going on, but not much hunting?)

Anyway, I'm probably way off base, but if I were going to need a knife to cause a lot of damage to several large targets, I'd be looking for something more robust. Does this point to a very young killer? Does it point away from a killer-for-hire?

I have discussed this earlier, when I think, someone suggested why not bring a better knife from their home.

I suggest two possibilities-

1) This was the one easily available and least likely to draw suspicion if found out by accident. Also easier to explain something like this in holiday season.

2) The killer wanted to drive home the possibility that this was some restaurant worker/ immigrant in a hotel or something.

Whatever it is, its fair to assume the killer wasn’t very experienced- either in his choice of knife or how he used it. Both point to someone very amateurish.

 

[BatataPoha]

The police dont have any details on the statue as I understand it. Which, in itself, I find interesting.

That certainly can’t be a coincidence in my view.

In my mind it also makes sense that it was someone from the neighbourhood who put it there, but then again no one came forward when it was taken by the TMPD to answer questions about it. Perhaps someone elderly?

Someone elderly put a 20kg statue single-handedly in the middle of the night/early morning and then simply forgot all about it. That sounds a bit too fantastical. Anyone serious enough to have a 20kg statue wouldnt just go to such great lengths to dump it like this without a just cause or reason. These are not play things. People have great faith in them and they are not very likely to trifle with stuff like this.

And a person that would never again be able to return to Japan after 2007 when the fingerprinting system comes into play at airports. Now, he could simply opt to take up Japanese nationality but Japan does not allow dual nationals. So now he would be locking himself into a country where he’s the most wanted fugitive.

I mean I dunno why you think he would ge locked in here? If he was a Japanese citizen, he could have simply moved out whenever he wants to? I don’t think Japan fingerprints their citizens.

Even if he had taken up a Japanese citizenship after the murders, he could still give it up by this time around in a 3rd country.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

That certainly can’t be a coincidence in my view.

What do you think it indicates, out of interest?

Someone elderly put a 20kg statue single-handedly in the middle of the night/early morning and then simply forgot all about it. That sounds a bit too fantastical.

Would it fit in a suitcase? I don’t think it requires the Incredible Hulk to achieve. Moreover, they could’ve had help. They could have arranged for it to be delivered. And it’s a city of 40 million people, the forgetting part implies they know the TMPD are looking for information on it. Having seen multiple information appeals from the police on this case while there, I can tell you they never mention the statue. At any rate, we don’t know if it’s connected and I don’t think they’re sure, either. But if they don’t seem too concerned about it, I would imagine that’s for a reason.

Anyone serious enough to have a 20kg statue wouldnt just go to such great lengths to dump it like this without a just cause or reason. These are not play things. People have great faith in them and they are not very likely to trifle with stuff like this.

Sure, but all of this can be true while having nothing to do with the killer.

I mean I dunno why you think he would ge locked in here? If he was a Japanese citizen, he could have simply moved out whenever he wants to? I don’t think Japan fingerprints their citizens.

Even if he had taken up a Japanese citizenship after the murders, he could still give it up by this time around in a 3rd country.

If you had US citizenship or taking up the option for Japanese citizenship where are you wanted for murder and will be hanged if they catch you, then I’d say you’d have to be pretty stupid to opt for the latter.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I have discussed this earlier, when I think, someone suggested why not bring a better knife from their home.

I suggest two possibilities-

1) This was the one easily available and least likely to draw suspicion if found out by accident. Also easier to explain something like this in holiday season.

2) The killer wanted to drive home the possibility that this was some restaurant worker/ immigrant in a hotel or something.

Whatever it is, its fair to assume the killer wasn’t very experienced- either in his choice of knife or how he used it. Both point to someone very amateurish.

Agree on all possibilities

 

[FacelessPodcast]

The knife. I know virtually nothing about knives, but to my uneducated eye, the choice of knife screams someone who isn't really versed in knives. Maybe someone very young. (Although, as I just said, I'm not either!) However, unless one is the Black Dahlia killer, wherein he carves up his victims in surgical precision, wouldn't one think they'd need a more robust knife to murder a family? And, it apparently wasn't a good choice, seeing that it broke during the attack. I also know nothing about knives for sale in and around Tokyo, though. Perhaps this is the only kind very readily available? (Lot's of sashimi-making going on, but not much hunting?)

Anyway, I'm probably way off base, but if I were going to need a knife to cause a lot of damage to several large targets, I'd be looking for something more robust. Does this point to a very young killer? Does it point away from a killer-for-hire?

Yes, I think the killer for hire theory is preposterous, frankly. The TMPD say he’s young, that he’s almost certainly a student. I think he simply grabbed or bought a knife without too much thought beyond — is it very sharp? Which is the predominant quality of this particular sashimi knife.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I apologize in advance if we have covered this! I know we've talked some about how military postings go, but I can't find the exact answer to this question in the threads here or even on the internet.
In the Airforce, specifically, how/when are people transferred. Does anyone here know? Not sure of the exact terminology, but I mean how often do they change posts? And, how does that work? Are they often transferred in the middle of a school year?

I would defer to those here with direct experience but from the many conversations I’ve had — there are rotations and then there are promotions. In the case of my POI, we’re looking at the latter. This can happen at any time. The POI is not in the military but his parent is. The former simply moves with his family accordingly. This can happen at any point.

If Nic's POI is the killer, I think the implication is that he left the country fairly soon after the crime, but that would have been in the middle of the school year. Possible?

Yes.

I know, of course, that transfers generally "happen to one" in the military -you don't just up and decide you'd like to go somewhere else. But, does it ever happen that officers can request to be transferred to another post due to personal reasons?

Just trying to understand how likely it is that a school kid on the base would be transferred in the middle of a school year, especially if he'd been there for a few years already.

From my conversations, military brats moving around a lot is not remarkable.

 

[fridaybaker]

Thanks for the input on military postings. I really have no idea about such things. I thought maybe it was the case that people were only moved around at a particular time of year.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

Exactly this. Most likely a highlighter pen.

Do we know for sure if the "dye" was a liquid stain or dry powder particles? An earlier post suggested fluorescent powder was found, but if it was a stain from a marker pen it would presumably be a liquid stain on the fabric of the bag. Those would be two very different things.

 

[BatataPoha]

What do you think it indicates, out of interest?

There are a couple of possibilities. The fact that it has Rei’s age etched onto it could maybe indicate its for him. I was looking at the Jizo statue, and saw that one interpretation of that Buddha is he frees up young kids from the torment of hell.

Why Rei in particular and not Nina then? Well I dunno, but we don’t have to try and rationalise what the killer did. He did kill Rei in a different manner, whether thats by accident or design is unclear. But can it be a complete coincidence for 2 different things to happen to Rei in particular? Hard for me to accept it sorry.

Would it fit in a suitcase? I don’t think it requires the Incredible Hulk to achieve. Moreover, they could’ve had help. They could have arranged for it to be delivered. And it’s a city of 40 million people, the forgetting part implies they know the TMPD are looking for information on it. Having seen multiple information appeals from the police on this case while there, I can tell you they never mention the statue. At any rate, we don’t know if it’s connected and I don’t think they’re sure, either. But if they don’t seem too concerned about it, I would imagine that’s for a reason.

And now multiple people have forgotten about it? The statue might be out of living memory now for the locals, but I can’t seem to imagine it wouldn’t have piqued the interest of the locals around. There are English language articles on the subject, so its fair to assume they would be there in the Japanese papers as well.

Your faith in TMPD is your call, and that’s perfectly fine, but I like to keep my options open in a cold case.

Sure, but all of this can be true while having nothing to do with the killer.

The killer is not going to telegraph his every move to everyone tbh. There is nothing that links the statue to the killer, but it is indeed an odd occurence. You can disregard it if you want, like the TMPD. It is a perfectly reasonable position to take.

If you had US citizenship or taking up the option for Japanese citizenship where are you wanted for murder and will be hanged if they catch you, then I’d say you’d have to be pretty stupid to opt for the latter.

There are a lot of killers in the world who don’t change nationalities if they think they got away with it. Some don’t even change residences. He might already be a US citizen during the murders, he might be Japanese and still be one or have taken up a third different nationality.

Ultimately I don’t think he is changing nationalities because of this crime in particular.

MOO.

 

[fridaybaker]

Nic, can you clarify if this is your "working theory"? Your POI was a student on the Yakota AFB. At around the time his parent was scheduled to be transferred out of the country (parent is a U.S. citizen) the POI suffered a huge blow to his ego. (I think you mentioned it was a romantic rejection.) As a result of the blow to the ego, and unable to lash out directly at the person who caused it, he took out his rage on a surrogate target -the Miyazawas. He had come across them somehow, perhaps quite serendipitously, and stalked them a bit beforehand. You've mentioned before on the thread that this lashing out could have been a form of "taking back the power" that he felt he'd lost as a result of the rejection -and that you'd experienced something like that before (although didn't murder anyone!).

The actual murder was the result of the "loss of power" and resulting rage. The seeming nonchalance about leaving so much personal evidence behind was the result of his knowing that he was leaving the country soon. In fact, he maybe even planned the actual date of the attack to be fairly close to the transfer date. Also, the fact that he is young/amateur could have impacted the leaving of overwhelming evidence as well.

Since he's out of the country now, as long as he stays off the radar crime-wise, and doesn't do anything requiring fingerprinting, he's living a regular life in the U.S. as a citizen.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

There are a couple of possibilities. The fact that it has Rei’s age etched onto it could maybe indicate its for him. I was looking at the Jizo statue, and saw that one interpretation of that Buddha is he frees up young kids from the torment of hell.

Why Rei in particular and not Nina then? Well I dunno, but we don’t have to try and rationalise what the killer did. He did kill Rei in a different manner, whether thats by accident or design is unclear. But can it be a complete coincidence for 2 different things to happen to Rei in particular? Hard for me to accept it sorry.

But it's not Rei, it's 6. That's not the same thing.

And as I've said many times, the fact Rei was murdered in a different way could be down to the killer's feelings towards him, sure. But there is nothing to indicate that in any concrete way. Unless you have something I've missed? If the killer enters the house via his balcony, which is the most simple answer IMO, then he strangles Rei to try and preserve his element of surprise. Now, nor do I have any proof on that front, that's just simple logic. We know he tried to disguise himself. We know he didn't hand himself in. I think it stands to reason that he wouldn't want to alert the family of his intrusion for as long as possible.

And now multiple people have forgotten about it? The statue might be out of living memory now for the locals, but I can’t seem to imagine it wouldn’t have piqued the interest of the locals around. There are English language articles on the subject, so its fair to assume they would be there in the Japanese papers as well.

Obviously, my point is not that all of Setagaya have forgotten / are unaware of it. I would assume you give me enough credit to not be a simpleton. My point is that whoever did leave it might not even be aware the TMPD have made enquiries about it. In a city of 40 million people, that's not unreasonable. I can tell you that we interviewed many local residents in Setagaya about the murders. The statue was never mentioned once. Anecdotal, of course. Then again, if you had anecdote with locals having spoken to them, that would probably trump my 'imagination'.

Your faith in TMPD is your call, and that’s perfectly fine, but I like to keep my options open in a cold case.

No, I would actually suggest that your lack of faith in them is your call. I've been very open about my criticisms of that police force / the justice system in Japan many times. But I've also dealt with the TMPD personally, I've also dealt with Seijo PD personally -- it is not a question of faith. It is a question of what I have seen myself. I've encountered police forces from Europe to North America and South America. I've never seen a work ethic like theirs. They absolutely would track down anything and everything in their power. The only exception I've seen to this is the sand. Which as I've said many times, is troubling but I think there are clear reasons for. RE: the statue, they have also tried to track down its origins. The fact that they have not been able to is not in any way an indictment of their effort or work. You like to keep your options open, I understand. But do you have anything tangible to doubt the work of the TMPD? What do you actually mean by this, exactly?

The killer is not going to telegraph his every move to everyone tbh. There is nothing that links the statue to the killer, but it is indeed an odd occurence. You can disregard it if you want, like the TMPD. It is a perfectly reasonable position to take.

I haven't discarded the statue. It may well prove linked to the killer. But I see nothing of relevance connected to it yet. As such, we can agree to disagree.

There are a lot of killers in the world who don’t change nationalities if they think they got away with it. Some don’t even change residences. He might already be a US citizen during the murders, he might be Japanese and still be one or have taken up a third different nationality.

Ultimately I don’t think he is changing nationalities because of this crime in particular.

MOO.

If he is a dual national, at the age of 21 (I think it is), Japan demands that you take up Japanese nationality or forfeit it. The police say he was as young as 15 at the time of the murders and my theory, as you know, is that he left Japan shortly after the murders. My point was that if he left Japan prior to 21, he would have to be pretty stupid to decide to return to Japan where they are actively going to kill him if they catch him. I don't see how this can be contested on any level.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

Nic, can you clarify if this is your "working theory"? Your POI was a student on the Yakota AFB. At around the time his parent was scheduled to be transferred out of the country (parent is a U.S. citizen) the POI suffered a huge blow to his ego. (I think you mentioned it was a romantic rejection.) As a result of the blow to the ego, and unable to lash out directly at the person who caused it, he took out his rage on a surrogate target -the Miyazawas. He had come across them somehow, perhaps quite serendipitously, and stalked them a bit beforehand. You've mentioned before on the thread that this lashing out could have been a form of "taking back the power" that he felt he'd lost as a result of the rejection -and that you'd experienced something like that before (although didn't murder anyone!).

The actual murder was the result of the "loss of power" and resulting rage. The seeming nonchalance about leaving so much personal evidence behind was the result of his knowing that he was leaving the country soon. In fact, he maybe even planned the actual date of the attack to be fairly close to the transfer date. Also, the fact that he is young/amateur could have impacted the leaving of overwhelming evidence as well.

Since he's out of the country now, as long as he stays off the radar crime-wise, and doesn't do anything requiring fingerprinting, he's living a regular life in the U.S. as a citizen.

More or less, yes!

 

[BatataPoha]

If he is a dual national, at the age of 21 (I think it is), Japan demands that you take up Japanese nationality or forfeit it. The police say he was as young as 15 at the time of the murders and my theory, as you know, is that he left Japan shortly after the murders. My point was that if he left Japan prior to 21, he would have to be pretty stupid to decide to return to Japan where they are actively going to kill him if they catch him. I don't see how this can be contested on any level

I dunno about the 21 thing, but I wonder if this could be done at an embassy outside the country? Some European countries do that I think, although I dunno what happens in Japan.

He could have left Japan as a 22yr old Japanese student, from the base to the US or anywhere in the world for that matter. The official age range is 15-25, so it could be that he was beyond 21.

And the last part, if he was a foreign passport holder, then maybe. Coz he would have to get fingerprinted upon entry or exit. But if he had a Japanese passport, then I don’t think he is in anymore fear of prosecution in Japan after all this time.

Do I think he is living in Japan? Probably not. But it doesn’t have to be for the guy to have a US passport. Perfectly conceivable the guy has a Japanese passport and just lives outside Japan, or maybe even a third nationality at this point.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

I dunno about the 21 thing, but I wonder if this could be done at an embassy outside the country? Some European countries do that I think, although I dunno what happens in Japan.

He could have left Japan as a 22yr old Japanese student, from the base to the US or anywhere in the world for that matter. The official age range is 15-25, so it could be that he was beyond 21.

And the last part, if he was a foreign passport holder, then maybe. Coz he would have to get fingerprinted upon entry or exit. But if he had a Japanese passport, then I don’t think he is in anymore fear of prosecution in Japan after all this time.

Do I think he is living in Japan? Probably not. But it doesn’t have to be for the guy to have a US passport. Perfectly conceivable the guy has a Japanese passport and just lives outside Japan, or maybe even a third nationality at this point.

All absolutely true.

And I was wrong, it’s actually 20:

“However, Japan uniformly prohibits multiple nationality, so when a Japanese person voluntarily acquires a foreign nationality, he or she loses Japanese nationality. In addition, persons with multiple nationalities by birth must choose their nationality by the age of 20 (Note 6).”

 

[Charlot123]

It might be something like drain tracing dye. It's often powdered, comes in many colours, and is usually flourescent so it's easy to spot even in a dark area. But it would be curious to find the exact same dye on the killer and in the Miyazawas garage if the killer never went in the garage.

That’s a question. TMPD says, “never” and then mentions black light and fluorescent dyes for Mikio and the killer to search for one another in the garage. Whatever it means.

 

[FacelessPodcast]

That’s a question. TMPD says, “never” and then mentions black light and fluorescent dyes for Mikio and the killer to search for one another in the garage. Whatever it means.

I guess they found similar dyes that Mikio owned in the garage and initially thought that could be a connection.

The lab in Chiba then points out it’s just highlighter / common paint, and the connection disappears.

 

[BatataPoha]

That’s a question. TMPD says, “never” and then mentions black light and fluorescent dyes for Mikio and the killer to search for one another in the garage. Whatever it means.

The TMPD also don’t seem to have prints for entry or exit of the killer, so unless he just appeared out of thin air, at some point he did consciously avoid leaving stuff behind, atleast initially.

What is to suggest he didn’t just enter in from the garage into the house Raises a whole lot of questions, primarily regarding the mode of entry, and the order of kills if thats the case.

Although most people have speculated its a highlighter ink which considering the student background and the cram school stuff isn’t out of the ordinary.

All absolutely true.

And I was wrong, it’s actually 20:

“However, Japan uniformly prohibits multiple nationality, so when a Japanese person voluntarily acquires a foreign nationality, he or she loses Japanese nationality. In addition, persons with multiple nationalities by birth must choose their nationality by the age of 20 (Note 6).”

I don’t think the killer is as young as 15 though. I dunno what the age for driving is in Japan, but I don’t think its 15. Ofcourse we don’t have much evidence of a car being involved, but if its a possibility he needs to be of a certain age to get a licence.

Could maybe also explain his choice of beverage after the kills