Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 6 murders, July 2023 #13

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MOD NOTE:

Folks, what was discussed at the presser is allowed for discussion. You may discuss the images and clothing choices that were presented at the presser. You may agree or disagree with JR's presentation of those image and clothing choices as long as you don't bicker about it. You may discuss your own opinion and experiences that concern those images and clothing choices.

VH has not been named POI. VH IS A FAMILY MEMBERR. VH at this point is a VICTIM. You may NOT link what you think or even what you know are VH's websites.

It's the rules.

 
BBM:
The problem I see with your possible explanation for local young girls reading/drawing like VH did is that I will assume that none are the daughters of an accused serial killer who tortured his victims to death and caught with evidence that's a mine field.

Does VH not wonder where her interests came from considering she has an affinity for what her father was arrested for along with his blueprint that describes what's needed to carry out the images and reading material VH posted about?

She may well and likely does wonder.

She may even wonder aloud, or in confidence. Some of her SM posts and artworks may be products of that wondering, based on interactions with or promptings by RH that we can only guess at. Or, they might be derivative of the ComicCon graphic novel world that her mum clearly followed. None of it seems obviously nefarious to me given the dates and circumstances of the crimes we know about, and none of it required a press conference to broadcast to the world.

IMO, an attorney who has long claimed to be a voice for victims in this case should not be wondering aloud and at length about these topics on VH's behalf. This strikes me as pure, cruel gamesmanship, motivated by something other than a search for justice in whatever shape or form.

JMO, MOO, etc.
 
He said that her hair wasn't transferred to Amber by RH. Implication being that VH left it herself.

VH was around twelve years of age and not even in the state when Amber was killed.

How else is it meant to be read than he thinks she was involved, when he's saying that along with showing her taste in art?

MOO

Agree. This was absolutely reckless, IMO, and seemingly unprovable as an assertion, especially given what we know about the variability and room for error in human hair evidence, and strong likelihoods of secondary/ tertiary transfer with the methods of transport and disposal and associated tools and materials favoured by RH.

It has also been stated that hair evidence is only of value when used in conjunction with other evidence.

Positive hair comparison conclusions may be weakened by the presence of incomplete hairs; by common, featureless hairs; and by known samples with large intrasample variation. [...]

Normal negative hair comparison conclusions are weakened by deficiencies in the known hair sample, including too few hairs, unrepresentative hairs, incomplete hairs, and a significant temporal difference between the offense and the collection of the known sample.


 
Not having a double life means his family knew about his crimes. I didn't glean anything from JR's presser that shows VH knew about the crimes her father was committing.

The presser exposed the tastes of VH that are distasteful and off-putting to many people, but it didn't show she knew what her father doing to victims, or that she condoned it, or that she covered it up.

It was very sensational, but was is substantial?

jmo
Not only about his crimes but about his lifestyle in general. If his lifestyle was one where he was rarely home in the middle of the night, if it was known he was a swinger, or that he frequented SWs, or if he spent copious amounts of time on social media. These are the topics that point to a double life imo.
 
Not only about his crimes but about his lifestyle in general. If his lifestyle was one where he was rarely home in the middle of the night, if it was known he was a swinger, or that he frequented SWs, or if he spent copious amounts of time on social media. These are the topics that point to a double life imo.

Asa may have known RH was doing strange things but had no idea what these things were, especially if he lied and had believable stories and excuses.
There's knowing exactly what he was up to, and just having a weird gut feeling that something is off but unable to prove it or have evidence of R's hobbies.
 
Asa may have known RH was doing strange things but had no idea what these things were, especially if he lied and had believable stories and excuses.
There's knowing exactly what he was up to, and just having a weird gut feeling that something is off but unable to prove it or have evidence of R's hobbies.
And hopefully she was truthful and shared those gut feelings with LE! However. haven’t we heard that there’s nothing to see here? MOO
 
The real objectification of women is seen in the sexualized, mutilated women produced by both the SK in real life and by his daughter in images. If you want to understand the artist, you have to look at his painting.
I absolutely agree that these murders are a result of what happens when society accepts and allows the objectification of women.
 
Asa may have known RH was doing strange things but had no idea what these things were, especially if he lied and had believable stories and excuses.
There's knowing exactly what he was up to, and just having a weird gut feeling that something is off but unable to prove it or have evidence of R's hobbies.

JMO, its becoming apparent that Rex's depraved criminal life was leaking into his other life - at home, at work and probably in social situations.

My impression from following this case is that Rex's family was "enmeshed" - they were abnormally, emotionally linked and involved in each other's daily lives, decision-making, etc. Its an unhealthy family dynamic and may have led to Rex's obsessions from his other life leaking into his family's lives. To what degree, we don't know.
 
JMO, its becoming apparent that Rex's depraved criminal life was leaking into his other life - at home, at work and probably in social situations.

My impression from following this case is that Rex's family was "enmeshed" - they were abnormally, emotionally linked and involved in each other's daily lives, decision-making, etc. Its an unhealthy family dynamic and may have led to Rex's obsessions from his other life leaking into his family's lives. To what degree, we don't know.

I agree, there's no way it wouldn't on some level. It's not like they lived in a huge mansion with separate wings and NEVER interacted as a family or were living separately or estranged. All living together in a small home.
 
The problem I see with this presser is how then does one explain "all the people who read/draw like VH did" who are NOT children of serial killers. The mere interest of VH in this is absolutely zero towards "evidence" (even circumstantial IMO) that she "must have known" (as some have said), "was groomed", "saw his photos", was exposed to his victims etc or else how did all those others' interested in it become so?

A quick google of "Gore Art" leads me to believe it's actually pretty popular with some. And expensive (probably because it's not mass produced like your average Walmart wall hanging). Lots of Pinterest and Instagram accounts posting it up etc too. Clicking on google images, many of the photo icons lead to sites where this art can be purchased. It obviously has a market. Not the kind of genre that I'm into, but obviously many are. Not my taste for wall hangings. The presser leaves me with no answers as to whether or not this is the only genre she chose to explore with her artistic talent or not.

As to the "Girl on Antlers" photo ... OMG - that is a photo straight taken out of the Hannibal TV Series. Sigh. I should have turned off the "presser" immediately at that point. Guilt of what? Circumstantial evidence of what? Millions of people watch this series. Unreal - IMO.

As to the photo commentary by JR that apparently links VH to the crimes of her father:
at 23minutes - JR: "take a look at this photo she was looking at. There's people hanging. But look partcularily at this particular person hanging. There's a shoe missing. Sandra Costillo was found with a shoe missing. This seems to be a fetish that was indulged in byRex Hueurmann. A fetish that is depicted and looked at by his daughter. That's a connection". What!!?? It's a photo VH allegedly looked at that shows FOUR people hanging. ONE is missing a shoe - the right shoe. SC was missing her left shoe. That individual is not the focus of the artwork. This is proof of a foot fetish and a "connection" to her knowledge of the crimes of her father? IMO: Please.

Next photo (24m13s): JR: "Perhaps this is a stretch but perhaps not, but look at the hairstyle and consider RH's hairstyle." Just wow. The photo is in anime style with the individual having long hair draped over their face and sideburns. It in no way, shape or form minutely "resembles" RH's hairstyle IMO.

Next photo VH looked at: JR: "appears to be the remains of a human being who looks half eaten." Then he brings up VH looking a site about cannibalism. Okay. Not a site I'd look at, but how exactly is this evidence (even circumstantial) of VH's involvement or knowledge? I'll just state: The VERY first and only time I've heard cannibalism inferred or suspected in ANY of the RH cases was this very comment by JR in this presser. IMO, just another realllllly long stretch on his part to infer this links VH to her father or her father's crimes. Heck, even RH hasn't been accused of cannibalism. Someone please provide the link if I am wrong one this point.

Next photo: (25m 45s): JR: "If you look, it has a strange familiarity when you see it because the torso shows that the arm is chopped off at the elbow. And the head is of course disconnect as well. And the body is being cut up into pieces. The hands and so on. Slicing up as if it were for food (again the cannibalism reference which has not, to date, been even alleged in the RH cases)... IMO: Meh: dismemberment happens most frequently at the joints in any case of this type it seems to me. The fact this artwork shows an arm chopped at the elbow and every single other conceivable joint too (note that none of RH's victims were found dismembered to that extent) is really "circumstantial evidence" of nothing connected to RHs crimes or crimes scenes IMO.

Next he moves on to necrophelia. What!!?? Has there been any allegation of that against RH in any of his cases? Someone please link if so. Again, circumstantial evidence of nothing alleged thus far to be a part of RH's crimes.

On "Furries" (kind of like Trekkies, but furry IMO): at least 250 000 of them in the United States. Conventions and the whole nine yards. Was/is VH a furry? This presser doesn't tell us the answer to that, but if so, are the other 249 999 of them the children of serial killers? I don't believe so, so I'll assume that if she is a furry that fact too is not even "circumstantial evidence" of her "knowing/being aware of", "being exposed to", "grooming of her", "seeing RH's victim photos etc" else how did all those other 249 999 people come to enjoy dressing as fantasy animal furries (beam them up Scottie)?

As John Ray states at 13m mark of the presser about not feeling sorry for VH because, "she's a 27 year old woman who tore off the cloak of her victimhood when she chose to take a handsome profit for herself and for her lawyer from Peacock for openly displaying the pretend picture of this innocent little girl persona who had nothing to do with what went on in that house. She did that at the real victims expense ...." This is an outright assertion by him that she "had something to do with what went on in that house". This comment was based on the fact that when RH was first arrested she was photographed outside in her everyday street clothes, but then "here's the real her" when showing a social media photo of her with makeup etc and not in street clothes. OMG - millions of us who have photos on our facebooks etc dressed up and not in our everyday street clothes mus be suspect now. Guess what? BOTH can be the "real" her or "the real me" for crying out loud - it's a far cry and an extreme stretch of the reality of the world to suggest that implies she was involved in what her father did in that house. He also says, "what she has witnessed, what she has perhaps gone beyond witnessing - you draw the inferences". No wonder the police opted not to show at this presser.

JR (59m05s): "This girl has becomes accustomed to liking what you see here and that just didn't happen in the air. That happened because somebody did something." Really? How about all those other 249 999 people etc? The inference must be then that something happened to all of them or that they are all children of serial killers because "it just doesn't happen in the air". Meh - it sure can happen out of the air. In Jr High and High School in the 80s, our art teacher absolutely hated the projects turned in by a friend of mine. Ghoulish and gory stuff - painitings, drawings and sculptures alike. She always tried to get him to try a different genre because he was truely talented. He always pushed back with a 'no' as that was where his interest and talent rested. These days, you've probably all experienced his work if you've seen Predator - Prey, Stargate etc. Mike makes monsters. He's an award winning Master of MakeUp and Special Effects. He contributes t a horror core website as well. Also does very high priced comissions. I follow his instagram which also has some of his work from Jr High & High School on it. I've shared some of his stuff (drawings and monster modelling). I guess I probably should be investigated. My house is full of true crime genre books etc.

On the "Coffee Table Book" : apparently now "a book of photos of dismembered prostitutes". No it isn't. It's a book of vintage Los Angeles crime scene photos - some of whom probably are prostitutes and some of them may be depicted dismembered. Regretably, prostitues are an unfairly and disproportionally targetted group for serious crimes exactly because LE tends to take decades to get off their duffs and take their "disappearances" seriously ... or just plain old doesn't investigate. (Witness for example: LISK, Robert Picton, Cottingham etc).

Anyway - that's my take on the "circumstantial evidence" aired in that 'presser' advertised by JR as proof that Rex Heuermann did not lead a double life (ie: that his family was aware and involved) in big gaudy font. It marks the last time I'll give him time.
You really broke it all down very well. Thank you so much. I wasn't able to watch live, and had seen some comments here before I saw any of the video. I was thinking that John Ray would be saying something interesting and have always thought of him as reasonable. But, wow! Absolute garbage. John Ray, you have gone out in such a shameful way.
 
You really broke it all down very well. Thank you so much. I wasn't able to watch live, and had seen some comments here before I saw any of the video. I was thinking that John Ray would be saying something interesting and have always thought of him as reasonable. But, wow! Absolute garbage. John Ray, you have gone out in such a shameful way.
Your opinion only, not a fact as you’ve stated.
 
IMO, JR simply pointed out that what VH was wearing on the day the cameras were rolling was a tamed down, innocent look compared to what she wears typically, which is apparently human skeletons on t-shirts after her father is charged with brutal crimes against innocent women.

It might be a psychological reaction, her way of dealing with her father's arrest and learning of his crimes, but it's very sad and hurtful towards his victims. She probably doesn't realize that.
 
Oh boy….my favorite genre of reading is true crime lol. My husband says I’m like a serial killer/crime encyclopedia sometimes. When we first met, I had a book out on my coffee table titled “CUT” with the image of a woman with a knife on her throat, it was all about old Hollywood actors and actresses and how they met their demise. He admitted to me months later that he thought it was strange and he was a little off put by it. I swear, I am a completely normal, law-abiding person who wouldn’t hurt a fly!

Reading/writing about True Crime/Film Noirs is very different than collecting extremely violent, sadist, torture/*advertiser censored* true crime photos and then drawing them, but it still does not make a person a criminal, a killer, or a SK.
But, it does say something about the artist.
 
Not having a double life means his family knew about his crimes. I didn't glean anything from JR's presser that shows VH knew about the crimes her father was committing.

The presser exposed the tastes of VH that are distasteful and off-putting to many people, but it didn't show she knew what her father doing to victims, or that she condoned it, or that she covered it up.

It was very sensational, but was is substantial?

jmo
I disagree in two ways.

First, while I can't say I enjoyed looking at the images, I am not sure I'd call them distasteful. I have no knowledge of what makes VH drawn to them. I would hazard a guess it is a symptom of her victimization. She could be repulsed by the images, and working to normalize them for herself to try to fit in. She could be processing her life, which is not a typical life.

I guess I do call her tee shirt choice distasteful, upon Rex's arrest. If she wears skeletons every day of her life, that was the day to turn the shirt inside out. But mostly, I don't think the problem is distaste.

The other way I disagree is that I certainly do think it is substantial.

The problem is how much the material contained references to the crime scene that we are learning more and more about. It means that in some way, VH knows something about the crimes. She is a witness.

Imagine if the truth turns out to be that her father accessed all of this images posing as his daughter. That seems unlikely, but it is possible, true? Then, she is a witness who can deny being behind the social media accounts. I think it is likely that VH has been on her own kind of investigation for years. She is a witness. Her interests in art that references crime scenes for crimes for which her father is accused makes that obvious.

In addition, just by living in that small house, it is very hard to imagine anybody not noticing anything at all...like, why does dad always scrub the bathroom when we are on vacation?

MOO
 
I can't see anybody telling their own kid about their outings to murder prostitutes. I don't care how disturbed he is.

No, because it's not normal, but yet there's at least one case of The Toybox Killer", David Parker Ray, who involved his wife, Cynthia Hendy, his daughter, Glenda Jean Ray, friends, and a business partner. So...it does happen, but extremely rare.
He committed violent sadiastic crimes from 1957–1999 until he was finally caught. His wife is free now, living in Kent, WA, and looks "normal."
 
Hypothetical question...

If I'm a collector of vintage comics, let's say specifically vintage "Peanuts"/Charlie Brown" (as that's somewhat familiar to old/young/and beyond the US), and many times a day/every day I'm posting photos of my collection for sale, AND many times a day I follow others who love Peanuts/Charlie Brown. Then over a period of time torture-p**nographic images of Lucy, Sally and Snoopy (laughable as it sounds we know someone out in the world has undoubtedly created such) continue filling my feeds from these unknowns I follow. Well, I'd start deleting/unfollowing them because no matter how much I want to make money, torture-p**n Peanuts ain't how I roll. Am I correct that apparently no one else in the world (or very very few) would delete/unfollow these accounts??

ETA: And, let's add... I create my own images of Peanuts characters with furry suits and some other unique but not menacing images that I sell. No one cares about the torture-p*** association followers/creators, except me??

Laughable but serious question 'cause that's actually how I roll ;)
 
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