Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #186

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Will the July 30th(on) hearings be covering all the outstanding motions outside of the franks? I feel like I saw a spreadsheet of the motions somewhere on the internet but now I can’t find it again.
The article linked said what will be covered.
It said "and other motions" but did NOT list them so we don't know.
 
The aim of the D's latest show is completely transparent: to get the old warhorse-- because she is fair and she is professional, which for them will be a loss-- out of "their" court. And if this doesn't finally convince you that the D believes it's their court, nothing will. It's theirs, and they make it accessible to YouTubers through their documents at will. Their documents are arguably even tailored to YouTubers and the general public (and it shows).

From article dated Nov 16 2023: "In documents unsealed on Thursday, Baston was subpoenaed to court to testify on behalf of Allen. He wrote a response, also released Thursday, saying he would not be coming to court because of 'fear for my life.'...In his response to the subpoena, Baston says 'corrupt sergeants' began abusing him following the first letter he sent to the court — including having his foot and ankle broken by being slammed to the ground....Baston finishes his letter stating, 'until this court can protect me and other inmates at Westville’s restrictive housing unit and report the excessive use of force assaults, abuse, mistreatment, torture and retaliation from corrupt Indiana Department of Corrections staff/officers, then I do not feel safe to testify.'"

The sheriff's office did not press it, claiming JG had said it was ok to leave Baston there. Source: "In a May 31, 2024, order, Gull wrote that the 'decision by the Deputy to leave without the witness was his and was not directed by the Court.'” Failure to comply with a subpoena is contempt on the part of the individual who refused to comply. There's a hearing, the non-compliant gets to explain himself, and the court or agency has broad discretion to determine an appropriate punishment given the circumstances presented. I have no doubt this issue would have been more fully dealt with sooner had it not been for the D's unfortunate and catastrophic document leak fiasco occurring around the same time. Not having that leak occur undoubtedly would also have freed up more time for the D to help their client work through the crisis they're saying he has been dealing with.

Whatever the outcome with the judge in this situation, the issue this D has isn't going to go away because they don't have a problem with Judge Gull. They have a problem with a judge they can't control, and judges by definition shouldn't be controlled by either party to the conflict.

This case has been made into many things by this D. It has been "all about Odinism," even though there is not proof to substantiate Odinism as any factor whatsoever. This case has been "all about" unconstitutional searches, it has been "all about" conflicts around religious liberty. "Ding dong" verbiage is now pushed into center stage. This case has been at points "all about" conditions for prison inmates, which is definitely an issue worthy of attention. But D's most immediate and pressing opportunity to advance prison rights was to make sure their client was acquitted and didn't have to spend the rest of his life there.

This case is about rights. It's about Richard Allen's rights-- but not exclusively. The rights it's most directly about are the rights of two little kids to go out on a trail one day and come home. Please show us why RA is not BG. Please show us why we should doubt he's BG. If you can't, please stop pouring salt in the wounds of people who have suffered enough already, and the issue at hand is whether that suffering was inflicted by your own client.

You know, I'd apologize for the length of this post, but considering the D produced a fifth-grade level 136 page book on Odinism that ultimately has no bearing on their client's guilt or innocence, I'm not apologizing.
 
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The aim of the D's latest show is completely transparent: to get the old warhorse-- because she is fair and she is professional, which for them will be a loss-- out of "their" court. And if this doesn't finally convince you that the D believes it's their court, nothing will. It's theirs, and they make it accessible to YouTubers through their documents at will. Their documents are arguably even tailored to YouTubers and the general public (and it shows).

From article dated Nov 16 2023: "In documents unsealed on Thursday, Baston was subpoenaed to court to testify on behalf of Allen. He wrote a response, also released Thursday, saying he would not be coming to court because of 'fear for my life.'...In his response to the subpoena, Baston says 'corrupt sergeants' began abusing him following the first letter he sent to the court — including having his foot and ankle broken by being slammed to the ground....Baston finishes his letter stating, 'until this court can protect me and other inmates at Westville’s restrictive housing unit and report the excessive use of force assaults, abuse, mistreatment, torture and retaliation from corrupt Indiana Department of Corrections staff/officers, then I do not feel safe to testify.'"

The sheriff's office did not press it, claiming JG had said it was ok to leave Baston there. Source: "In a May 31, 2024, order, Gull wrote that the 'decision by the Deputy to leave without the witness was his and was not directed by the Court.'” Failure to comply with a subpoena is contempt on the part of the individual who refused to comply. There's a hearing, the non-compliant gets to explain himself, and the court or agency has broad discretion to determine an appropriate punishment given the circumstances presented. I have no doubt this issue would have been more fully dealt with sooner had it not been for the D's unfortunate and catastrophic document leak fiasco occurring around the same time. Not having that leak occur undoubtedly would also have freed up more time for the D to help their client work through the crisis they're saying he has been dealing with.

Whatever the outcome with the judge in this situation, the issue this D has isn't going to go away because they don't have a problem with Judge Gull. They have a problem with a judge they can't control, and judges by definition shouldn't be controlled by either party to the conflict.

This case has been made into many things by this D. It has been "all about Odinism," even though there is not proof to substantiate Odinism as any factor whatsoever. This case has been "all about" unconstitutional searches, it has been "all about" conflicts around religious liberty. "Ding dong" verbiage is now pushed into center stage. This case has been at points "all about" conditions for prison inmates, which is definitely an issue worthy of attention. But D's most immediate and pressing opportunity to advance prison rights was to make sure their client was acquitted and didn't have to spend the rest of his life there.

This case is about rights. It's about Richard Allen's rights-- but not exclusively. The rights it's most directly about are the rights of two little kids to go out on a trail one day and come home. Please show us why RA is not BG. Please show us why we should doubt he's BG. If you can't, please stop pouring salt in the wounds of people who have suffered enough already, and the issue at hand is whether that suffering was inflicted by your own client.

You know, I'd apologize for the length of this post, but considering the D produced a fifth-grade level 136 page book on Odinism that ultimately has no bearing on their client's guilt or innocence, I'm not apologizing.
Great Post and I 1000% agree with it !!!

If the D would spend more time trying to prove why their client is not BG instead of trying to remove the Judge (what are they afraid of ??) then they might have an actual defense strategy.


But NOPE--- instead they write all these FMs and Romper Room/Pre-school documents and for the 3rd or 4th time try to get JG removed.
Why???
What are they afraid of ???

They know they do NOT have a defense for RA
So they are going after anyone and everything they can.
They have nothing else

IIRC, someone here earlier (I think TTFF) said it is "Brilliant Lawyering"
I guess if all their motions and FMs to try to get the Judge removed and blame innocent people ( Odinists) because they know they won't win this case is "brilliant" then it is what it is and their own Opinion.

But that is NOT fighting for a client from a Defense team, and RA should deserve a defense team , and IMO, these ding dongs are NOT it.

it is borderline bullying, Romper Room/Pre-school antics and whining.

Ding Dongs, it is !! per their request and JMO

1719026442765.png
 
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Great Post and I 1000% agree with it !!!

If the D would spend more time trying to prove why their client is not BG instead of trying to remove the Judge (what are they afraid of ??) then they might have an actual defense strategy.


But NOPE--- instead they write all these FMs and Romper Room/Pre-school documents and for the 3rd or 4th time try to get JG removed.
Why???
What are they afraid of ???

They know they do NOT have a defense for RA
So they are going after anyone and everything they can.
They have nothing else

IIRC, someone here earlier (I think TTFF) said it is "Brilliant Lawyering"
I guess if all their motions and FMs to try to get the Judge removed and blame innocent people ( Odinists) because they know they won't win this case is "brilliant" then it is what it is and their own Opinion.

But that is NOT fighting for a client from a Defense team, and RA should deserve a defense team , and IMO, these ding dongs are NOT it.

it is borderline bullying, Romper Room/Pre-school antics and whining.

Ding Dongs, it is !! per their request and JMO

View attachment 512249
I think a big issue is that juries want to believe that LE arrest people for good reason. They want to believe there is actual evidence linking this person to this crime, not that this is a random person plucked off the witness list.


So rather than simply showing there is no direct evidence linking the accused to the crime or victims, the D shows who the investigation (done by the FBI and task force, and backed by experts) points towards. IMO showing the other people were investigated and proven to be more likely culprits is a far more compelling defense than just “can’t prove it” in the eyes of a jury.

MOO
 
And the defense is saying they didn't mislabel it and submitted it exactly as they were supposed to. I believe the defense on this one. They have way more experience than Nick McLeland. They know how to file documents.

IMO MOO
Well, I have lots of questions about the D's competence when it comes to some documents. They accidentally sent important legal documents to the wrong person in their phone log. And of course they left important photos and documents unsupervised and out in the open, allowing them to be stolen and publicly distributed.

So it's not a stretch to me that they could mislabel a document. Otherwise, HOW did it get delivered to the prosecution? If it was labeled correctly as Ex Parte communication it would NEVER have been sent there.

In my opinion they do not seem super competent nor experienced ---many of their motions look unprofessional, sloppy and questionable, imo.
 
“So maybe they want to have the hearing to transfer first, before going to SCOIN?”

You answered yourself :). I believe 100% they have the “goods.” Their priority is to get RA out of prison where he does NOT belong, to give him the opportunity to be closer to his family and counsel and to regain or maintain his mental health after languishing for NO GOOD REASON in a prison for many months longer than he should have been.

Can’t wait to see who is lying, Tobe or JG! We’ll likely see more lying. This case is FULL of lies and subterfuge and not by the defense.

JMHO
I don't think either of them is lying.


"Allen's attorneys say they plan to call Judge Frances Gull to testify to the truthfulness of a Carroll County Sheriff's Office report.

Chief Deputy Tobe Leazenby allegedly told a deputy in March 2023 that Gull gave permission to ignore Allen's subpoena for an inmate to be brought to court to testify about Allen's abusive treatment in prison.

But in Gull's May 31 order, she wrote, "The decision by the deputy to leave without the witness was his and was not directed by the court."




OK, it said "Chief Deputy Tobe Leazenby allegedly told a deputy " something over a year ago?
At least that was the Deputy's memory of it and his interpretation of it, during a difficult time with an obstinate inmate.

Who knows how accurate the memory was or the wording was?

The judge said the court did not 'DIRECT' anyone to leave without the witness. That could have been true while at the same time the statement of the Deputies could have been true and correct.

If the inmate was strongly defiant and refusing to go onto the transport, and the Chief Deputy spoke to Judge G and said 'He will not comply without physical force--I think we have to leave him here" and the Judge said OK---Does that mean 'SHE DIRECTED HIM to leave without the witness?" I don't think so.

The Chief Deputy is the person in charge of the DOC and the inmate transport process. If he decided that he could not safely get an inmate to comply, that is up to his discretion.

I think she could have agreed with him that he couldn't hogtie the witness in order to get him on the bus, without that meaning she DIRECTED him to leave the inmate behind.

There is a big difference between directing someone to do something and simply agreeing with someone else's decision.


The Deputy Chief may have rightfully believed that she gave 'him permission' to bring the transport with the other inmates to court and leave him behind because he was not compliant.


I don't think either of them is lying.
 
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I think a big issue is that juries want to believe that LE arrest people for good reason. They want to believe there is actual evidence linking this person to this crime, not that this is a random person plucked off the witness list.


So rather than simply showing there is no direct evidence linking the accused to the crime or victims, the D shows who the investigation (done by the FBI and task force, and backed by experts) points towards. IMO showing the other people were investigated and proven to be more likely culprits is a far more compelling defense than just “can’t prove it” in the eyes of a jury.

MOO
What other people were more likely? Were any of them shown to be and admitted to be up on the bridge, with the girls, wearing the same type clothing as BG, at the time of the kidnapping?
 
I don't think we have enough information to know what is the issue with Baston.
Baston refused to come out of his cell in order to be transferred to Court where he was supposed to testify to all the horrible Odin things and mistreatment happening to RA. Maybe he's just a letter writing kind of inmate instead of one who would actually take the stand. IDK
Ostensibly, (re: Baston's subpoena and witness transport issue) the State made misleading statements on Court papers.
So says the Defense, but they say a lot of things that are suspect IMO. Judge Gull ordered Baston's subpoena and transportation to Court. It is not her job to physically get him there. It's IDOC's and LE's.
Why would that be related to an Original Action?
It would be the second OA if the Defense wanted to push the issue to the SCOIN, which is comical to me. Baston is a convicted child SO serving 40 years, I think he'd be less than credible and if he won't leave his cell and won't testify they can't physically force him. Curious though if his testimony is sooo important to RA's case, why has the D allowed it sit on the back burner until now?? It's not, the D just needs ammo.

I'm sure the SCOIN also know how farcical the Defense has turned out to be and what a mockery they've made of this case and the Court. They reinstated them mainly to get the trial back on track and Rozzi and Baldwin have done everything BUT get RA to trial.
****************

The challenge is ... if Gull has become a fact witness, she'd not be able to rule in the trial AND be a witness.

That's pretty straightforward.

The solution is recusal. Same old same old; its up to Gull to recuse as required by both the
IN Rules of Evidence (605) and the IN Code of Judicial Conduct (2.11).
Not going to happen IMO.
What that looks like in practice ... I guess we wait and see.

JMHO
Denied - JMO

All JMHO
 
I see it more of having the last word for some, regardless of being right or wrong. :rolleyes:

I really do wish Abby and Libby could go back to front and center. :(<modsnip>
The Defense and their hijinks have stolen any dignity and thoughts of Abby and Libby, the real victims unfortunately. The families of these girls are also needlessly suffering because of them.

#Justice4Abby&LibbyAlways

IMO
 
I don't think either of them is lying.


"Allen's attorneys say they plan to call Judge Frances Gull to testify to the truthfulness of a Carroll County Sheriff's Office report.

Chief Deputy Tobe Leazenby allegedly told a deputy in March 2023 that Gull gave permission to ignore Allen's subpoena for an inmate to be brought to court to testify about Allen's abusive treatment in prison.

But in Gull's May 31 order, she wrote, "The decision by the deputy to leave without the witness was his and was not directed by the court."




OK, it said "Chief Deputy Tobe Leazenby allegedly told a deputy " something over a year ago?
At least that was the Deputy's memory of it and his interpretation of it, during a difficult time with an obstinate inmate.

Who knows how accurate the memory was or the wording was?

The judge said the court did not 'DIRECT' anyone to leave without the witness. That could have been true while at the same time the statement of the Deputies could have been true and correct.

If the inmate was strongly defiant and refusing to go onto the transport, and the Chief Deputy spoke to Judge G and said 'He will not comply without physical force--I think we have to leave him here" and the Judge said OK---Does that mean 'SHE DIRECTED HIM to leave without the witness?" I don't think so.

The Chief Deputy is the person in charge of the DOC and the inmate transport process. If he decided that he could not safely get an inmate to comply, that is up to his discretion.

I think she could have agreed with him that he couldn't hogtie the witness in order to get him on the bus, without that meaning she DIRECTED him to leave the inmate behind.

There is a big difference between directing someone to do something and simply agreeing with someone else's decision.


The Deputy Chief may have rightfully believed that she gave 'him permission' to bring the transport with the other inmates to court and leave him behind because he was not compliant.


I don't think either of them is lying.

Good argument!

Very similar to how we don't know exactly what Dulin said to RA outside the grocery store. Was it, 'Were you at the trails any time between 1:30 and 3:30" or was it, "What time were you at the trails, exactly - when did you get there and when did you leave?"

But I can get on board when what you described as a hypothetical. If it did happen that way, neither is lying, correct.

In both cases, we'll never know.

IMO MOO
 
I don't think either of them is lying.


"Allen's attorneys say they plan to call Judge Frances Gull to testify to the truthfulness of a Carroll County Sheriff's Office report.

Chief Deputy Tobe Leazenby allegedly told a deputy in March 2023 that Gull gave permission to ignore Allen's subpoena for an inmate to be brought to court to testify about Allen's abusive treatment in prison.

But in Gull's May 31 order, she wrote, "The decision by the deputy to leave without the witness was his and was not directed by the court."




OK, it said "Chief Deputy Tobe Leazenby allegedly told a deputy " something over a year ago?
At least that was the Deputy's memory of it and his interpretation of it, during a difficult time with an obstinate inmate.

Who knows how accurate the memory was or the wording was?

The judge said the court did not 'DIRECT' anyone to leave without the witness. That could have been true while at the same time the statement of the Deputies could have been true and correct.

If the inmate was strongly defiant and refusing to go onto the transport, and the Chief Deputy spoke to Judge G and said 'He will not comply without physical force--I think we have to leave him here" and the Judge said OK---Does that mean 'SHE DIRECTED HIM to leave without the witness?" I don't think so.

The Chief Deputy is the person in charge of the DOC and the inmate transport process. If he decided that he could not safely get an inmate to comply, that is up to his discretion.

I think she could have agreed with him that he couldn't hogtie the witness in order to get him on the bus, without that meaning she DIRECTED him to leave the inmate behind.

There is a big difference between directing someone to do something and simply agreeing with someone else's decision.


The Deputy Chief may have rightfully believed that she gave 'him permission' to bring the transport with the other inmates to court and leave him behind because he was not compliant.


I don't think either of them is lying.
In real juris-world, Judges do NOT do give unclear orders re: transfers responding to subpoenas and/or misreport judicial decisions to Defense and Prosecution. One of these parties (Judge/LE) is obfuscating. Facts will be determined via testimony. There's no room here for excuse-making.
JMHO
 
Gull on Friday scheduled a three-day hearing set to begin July 30 in the case of Richard Allen, 51, of Delphi.

...

Updated: Jun 21, 2024 / 05:52 PM EST
It’s about time! Or, should I say “It’s WAY overdue?” :)
 
Which is more believable to a jury?

Libby and Abby were killed in a pagan ritual in the middle of the day by white supremacist Odinists (who were investigated by LE and have proven alibis for being elsewhere at the time of the murders).

- Or -

The evidence against RA is weak, witnesses were confused, there were 2 sketches and multiple POI’s through the years.

Defense could make a great case for RA’s innocence. But they are not doing it. Why?

jmo
 
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