Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #186

[Jade]

That will be hard for a jury to ignore.

What jury? E does not stand accused by LE, not behind bars nor awaiting his day in court

The suspect awaiting trial is Richard Allen not E.

E has a significant intellectual disability that needs to be included in discussions exploiting him as the counter used by RA supporters, imo.

In criminal cases there is a propensity for those with intellectual disabilities to make false confessions.

>>
suspects who suffer from intellectual disabilities are prone to falsely confess because of a variety of well-documented factors inherent to the disability, including: heightened suggestibility, a desire to please authority, a tendency to acquiesce, and adaptive behaviors that rely on cues provided by others rather than on their own problem-solving abilities. For these reasons, the prevalence of the intellectually disabled among those proven to have falsely confessed is striking. In cases involving confessions by defendants with documented intellectual disabilities, courts must include the disability as part of the materiality analysis under Brady. To do otherwise would leave this vulnerable category of defendants inadequately protected.
>>
As this Court has recognized, people who suffer from intellectual disabilities face a disproportionate risk of falsely confessing. See Hall, 134 S. Ct. at 1993; Atkins, 536 U.S. at 320. Empirical evidence bears that out.
>>

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/17/17-1241/42358/20180404154226050_17-1241 Amicus Brief.pdf


Richard Allen’s wordy attorneys have never suggested in any way and his job confirms no intellectual disability as severe as E. who would be included in those prone to false confessing.


all imo

 

[Jade]

You know why I followed this case? Because sadly, I heard through genealogy grapevine that they were planning to test the DNA they had in 2018.

Then, radio silence. I suspect that maybe DNA was tested and didn’t match anyone. Just anyone. You sometimes have a very rare Y, for example, so rare that you know it is not expected to be local. I know they tested volunteers - maybe all they needed were several families, and the guy’s DNA was an outlier. An outlier is not surprising, a sailor drives through the village and here is an outlier in the next generation. However, if:
- the perpetrator is not local but stayed with, say, their grandparents 10 years ago so no one remembers him,
- and it could be as far as Peru or Kokomo
- and genetically , the perpetrator is a rare mix but is a “local”

Here is your problem with the DNA.

Here's your problem with getting news from a DNA grapevine, imo.

No msm links to "nothing being done", I see.

all imo

 

[nadia90]

Are you aware then its not gone to trial where the Prosecution's evidence is presented to a jury for consideration?

Otherwise how would anyone know nothings been done?

Isn't that a pretty good reason RA is in jail is he's Mr. DNA guy?

Interested in seeing your links that say "nothing has been done" when RA is incarcerated awaiting trial.


all imo

Yes yes!

 

[sunshineray]

Per the LEs depos, there is no direct evidence, no DNA, no fingerprint, no scientific evidence, no electronic evidence linking RA to victims or crime.

Although we know that during RL search warrant, they had fibres, hair and noted that the killer took items of clothing. We never heard of any of that again.

LE depos is quite broad language. Have all LE's full depositions in this case been released to the public?

 

[sunshineray]

Per the Franks, He told the FBI agent who was dropping him off at his house after he was interrogated for this murder that his DNA would be on the girls and told two of his sisters (who also told the cops) intimate details of this crime scene that were incredibly unique before it was ever released to the public. He was very much on their radar. Enough that Click asked for a warrant to search his house (per the March 18 transcript) but UC just never came through. I find that confession far more compelling. All MOO

What are these intimate details of the crime scene being supposedly disclosed by EF...and when is he supposed to have disclosed them?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

It's pretty simple, IMO.

Arguments in Limine will determine admissibility of evidence. Geofencing evidence is on the P's limine clarification/argument list.

The Prosecution motioned their concerns re: geofencing evidence (see the P's limine motion). The Prosecution would object to the Defense's use of the geofencing reports "to confuse/mislead" the jury at trial - should that even occur. The P would object if the geofencing reports are to be used implicate individuals that LE has cleared. The Court can place those limits as warranted.

That being said, the area of the geofencing IS that final crime scene. LE believes and asserts that RA (or RA's accomplice(s)) was at the crime scene, murdering the girls between a certain timeline window. The Defense is entitled to the geofencing report as it relates to the presence and identification of ALL PHONES at crime scene within LE's timeline window and as it supports or discredits the State's timeline for RA, for the crime.

Should the Defense find the geofencing information does not support LE's timeline they can argue that. Should the Defense find the geofencing supports a different timeline, they can argue that, etc..

JMHO

It’s a good bet that if the geofencing info is allowed in the defense will bend it, and twist it, and lie about it to the jury. They will smear and implicate innocent people without regard, just so the child murderer can be freed.
I‘m not talking about a typical defense that takes facts and presents it differently to the jury. I’m talking purposeful deceit. They are not above just making stuff up. This team will do that, they do it all the time.
If the geofence stuff comes in, I don’t think it’s a big deal. The prosecution will be ready.

That opinion thing.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Up to $325k now.

Delphi murders reward up to $325K after anonymous donation

The reward for an arrest in the murders of two teens in Delphi is now up to $325,000 after Indiana State Police received an anonymous $100,000 donation.

www.wrtv.com

Thanks STG, that is from 2021 and I had seen that. To clarify my question, I meant after RA was arrested. I don't necessarily need to know... just curious.

 

[TTF14]

It’s a good bet that if the geofencing info is allowed in the defense will bend it, and twist it, and lie about it to the jury. They will smear and implicate innocent people without regard, just so the child murderer can be freed.
I‘m not talking about a typical defense that takes facts and presents it differently to the jury. I’m talking purposeful deceit. They are not above just making stuff up. This team will do that, they do it all the time.
If the geofence stuff comes in, I don’t think it’s a big deal. The prosecution will be ready.

That opinion thing.

Data speaks for itself and won't need to be twisted. None of us (to my knowledge) have seen Baldwin or Rozzi at trial, so we can't make judgements on what they will do. I feel confident the jury will be smart and won't be gullible or influenced by manipulation. Let's let the experts explain the data to them and have confidence in their abilities.

IMO

 

[Salah11]

Data speaks for itself and won't need to be twisted. None of us (to my knowledge) have seen Baldwin or Rozzi at trial, so we can't make judgements on what they will do. I feel confident the jury will be smart and won't be gullible or influenced by manipulation. Let's let the experts explain the data to them and have confidence in their abilities.

IMO

Same for the bullet that the defense are trying to get thrown out. Let the jury decide on its relevance on it showing RA was at the crime scene and participated in the murders.

 

[TTF14]

Same for the bullet that the defense are trying to get thrown out. Let the jury decide on its relevance on it showing RA was at the crime scene and participated in the murders.

Agree. With regard to the bullet, expert testimony will be important to explain markings on unspent rounds and the chain of custody will need to be proven as well. I just hope that wasn't in the weeks of "lost evidence."

IMO MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Thanks STG, that is from 2021 and I had seen that. To clarify my question, I meant after RA was arrested. I don't necessarily need to know... just curious.

Sure thing. I’ve wondered the same - if anyone has collected. But, I guess it’s not payable yet. No conviction.

Indiana State Police announced Monday an anonymous donor chipped in $100,000 toward the Delphi Investigation reward fund, bringing the total to $325,000. The reward is reserved for anyone who provides information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person behind the deaths of Williams, 13, and German, 14.
Apr 5, 2021.

Anonymous donor adds $100k toward Delphi murders investigation

The donation brings the unsolved case's total reward fund to $325,000.

www.indystar.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

You know why I followed this case? Because sadly, I heard through genealogy grapevine that they were planning to test the DNA they had in 2018.

Then, radio silence. I suspect that maybe DNA was tested and didn’t match anyone. Just anyone. You sometimes have a very rare Y, for example, so rare that you know it is not expected to be local. I know they tested volunteers - maybe all they needed were several families, and the guy’s DNA was an outlier. An outlier is not surprising, a sailor drives through the village and here is an outlier in the next generation. However, if:
- the perpetrator is not local but stayed with, say, their grandparents 10 years ago so no one remembers him,
- and it could be as far as Peru or Kokomo
- and genetically , the perpetrator is a rare mix but is a “local”

Here is your problem with the DNA.

It will be interesting to learn what the DNA told them. Maybe nothing. Maybe everything.

In the Down the Hill podcast chapter 10 at about 4 mins and 30 seconds, TL states that they have a few finger prints and DNA. Then he says that he doesn't know if the DNA they have matches the person who did this.

Chapter 10: Four Years

Podcast Episode · Down The Hill: The Delphi Murders · S1 E10 · 19m

podcasts.apple.com

 

[sunshineray]

Data speaks for itself and won't need to be twisted. None of us (to my knowledge) have seen Baldwin or Rozzi at trial, so we can't make judgements on what they will do. I feel confident the jury will be smart and won't be gullible or influenced by manipulation. Let's let the experts explain the data to them and have confidence in their abilities.

IMO

Data will always need to be interpreted by experts on both sides.

 

[grannygates]

Are you aware then its not gone to trial where the Prosecution's evidence is presented to a jury for consideration?

Otherwise how would anyone know nothings been done?

Isn't that a pretty good reason RA is in jail is he's Mr. DNA guy?

Interested in seeing your links that say "nothing has been done" when RA is incarcerated awaiting trial.


all imo

We know from discovery, LE has testified under oath during their depositions that they do not have any DNA linking RA to the crime.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

We know from discovery, LE has testified under oath during their depositions that they do not have any DNA linking RA to the crime.

We haven’t seen the discovery.
We only have the defense’s description and spin of what’s in it.
One sided. Not very reliable.
We won’t know facts until trial.

 

[steeltowngirl]

We haven’t seen the discovery.
We only have the defense’s description and spin of what’s in it.
One sided. Not very reliable.
We won’t know facts until trial.

Agree. The wording on the FM is no DNA links him to the crime scene, not the crime.

That doesn’t mean that DNA of the girls wasn’t found in his home, his car, etc.

We just don’t know yet.

jmo

 

[mrjitty]

I don't know nothing about AT and geofecing and how it works and I won't read the motion again but if I remember well, the defense supported more in At and pings (apparently the pings aren't very reliable in Delphi) and they didn't understood how it works. But both the prosecution and the defense know who the owners of the 3 phones are. The defense isn't screaming that is one of the odinists, so I guess it is not.

According to the Hennessy who decide to went to youtubers channels and talk about the experts of the prosecution, the prosecution has 3 experts about geofecing, so geofecing will be important in some way.

I think the point I was trying to convey in my previous post is that it's just an early phase investigative tool.

For the people you know were at the crime scene* you don't need the geofence. So for key witnesses like the juvenile girls, family, known searches, other witnesses and of course Libby's phone - LE can just subpoena data, perhaps even get permission to examine their phones etc to firm up the timeline and see who was where and when.

The geofence tells you about the phones you didn't know about - so you can develop POI and additional leads. So let's say for example, the geofence showed an anonymous handset close to the bridge at bridge guy time - you can then go back to AT&T and "unmask' that phone - getting all the customer info, all the cell data and location info they have - and perhaps also subpoena additional companies like Google. You might even be able to get a search warrant based on that.

I think what the State was getting at is that they ran all those numbers to ground and there was no useful lead. He isn't saying you can't talk about phone data at trial - I am sure the state will want to do that - he is just saying you can't selectively use this chart - so for example if you want to say oh look this anonymous handset is "at the crime scene' you probably would need to refer to a full analysis for that phone based on the deeper dive in discovery, or a subpoena of those records.

* I would understand crime scene to include the bridge but who knows what the actual geofence warrant requested.

MOO

 

[TTF14]

It will be interesting to learn what the DNA told them. Maybe nothing. Maybe everything.

In the Down the Hill podcast chapter 10 at about 4 mins and 30 seconds, TL states that they have a few finger prints and DNA. Then he says that he doesn't know if the DNA they have matches the person who did this.

Chapter 10: Four Years

Podcast Episode · Down The Hill: The Delphi Murders · S1 E10 · 19m

podcasts.apple.com

Speaking of DTH, Defense Diaries (Bob and Ali Motta) is having a "DTH reunion" tonight with Barb MacDonald and I think her co-host? Blanking on his name. (ETA: It's Andrew Iden)

Just an FYI.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Oh they have it

A link would be helpful. Can you please provide one to back up your assertion? TIA.

 

[girlhasnoname]

How do I despise them? Let me count the ways ...

I can understand how we're all frustrated, but I find it more constructive to discuss ideas, facts, and law rather than personalities. I appreciate other case insights and perspectives as to the facts and law of course. JMO.

I think the conduct of this Defense Team and all their SM quasi legal experts and hangers on have lead this case right into the toilet that it is in now. It isn't about personalities, I don't care about R&B personally. I want them to act like professionals and bring RA to trial. Their filings are filled with enough childish words and accusations. Ding dong, really?

I'm not frustrated, I'm disgusted...big difference there. What I do care about is Justice and Truth for Abby & Libby, and to see the killer of these girls taken to trial, found guilty by a jury of his peers and for him to spend the rest of his days behind bars. Abby & Libby were innocent, they've been buried for 7 years. RA has been allowed to enjoy his life like nothing has happened until his arrest. Time for that to change.

Accountability, the D doesn't have it and RA hasn't taken it either even though he has confessed numerous times. I see that changing in the near future, unless the D continues to drag this thing out.

It's comical considering according to R&B RA's' so innocent and they're so emotionally invested in seeing him exonerated. Let's go gentlemen, put up or shut up.

MOO