Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #186

[steeltowngirl]

Actually, we have not heard anything about evidence from prosecution due to the gag order. What we know is via the defense interpretation of discovery as noted in the FMs. And they say they haven’t seen all of the discovery.

jmo

 

[WildHuncher]

Actually, we have not heard anything about evidence from prosecution due to the gag order. What we know is via the defense interpretation of discovery as noted in the FMs. And they say they haven’t seen all of the discovery.

jmo

Their interpretations of the prosecution case have been pretty wild at points, especially regarding the cartridge forensics. “Richard owns guns.”

I can forgive, but I won’t forget.

 

[nadia90]

Per the LEs depos, there is no direct evidence, no DNA, no fingerprint, no scientific evidence, no electronic evidence linking RA to victims or crime.

Although we know that during RL search warrant, they had fibres, hair and noted that the killer took items of clothing. We never heard of any of that again.

Oh they have it

 

[grannygates]

Oh they have it

What do they have?

 

[Emma Peel]

Don't forget they have forensic evidence that nails ra.

Can you please link the "forensic evidence that nails ra", that I must have missed.
(I don't think I'd forget. But it's possible to miss things in this glacial time case.) Thanks!

 

[susane7]

The FBI geofencing data is using the coordinates of the site where the girls were found.

I don't know nothing about AT and geofecing and how it works and I won't read the motion again but if I remember well, the defense supported more in At and pings (apparently the pings aren't very reliable in Delphi) and they didn't understood how it works. But both the prosecution and the defense know who the owners of the 3 phones are. The defense isn't screaming that is one of the odinists, so I guess it is not.

According to the Hennessy who decide to went to youtubers channels and talk about the experts of the prosecution, the prosecution has 3 experts about geofecing, so geofecing will be important in some way.

 

[Betty P]

Per the Franks, He told the FBI agent who was dropping him off at his house after he was interrogated for this murder that his DNA would be on the girls and told two of his sisters (who also told the cops) intimate details of this crime scene that were incredibly unique before it was ever released to the public. He was very much on their radar. Enough that Click asked for a warrant to search his house (per the March 18 transcript) but UC just never came through. I find that confession far more compelling. All MOO

That will be hard for a jury to ignore.

 

[Willow Knight]

Can you please link the "forensic evidence that nails ra", that I must have missed.
(I don't think I'd forget. But it's possible to miss things in this glacial time case.) Thanks!

We only know what has been RELEASED to the public. Here is a link. We must wait until trial for other evidence.

Court documents say investigators found important evidence against Allen at the crime scene — an unspent bullet found between Abby and Libby's bodies. Investigators claim ballistics testing on that bullet matches a gun they found inside Allen's home when they conducted a search warrant. It is some of the most powerful evidence offered by the state to link Allen to the crime scene.

Judge in Delphi murders case to allow evidence found during search of Richard Allen's home

Richard Allen's attorneys claimed the sheriff and others lied to get the search warrant and, therefore, what they found should be thrown out.

www.wthr.com

 

[Betty P]

Actually, we have not heard anything about evidence from prosecution due to the gag order. What we know is via the defense interpretation of discovery as noted in the FMs. And they say they haven’t seen all of the discovery.

jmo

They're also likely selective in what discovery evidence they reveal. We'll know what evidence the defense and prosecution have when the trial begins.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

How do I despise them? Let me count the ways ...

I can understand how we're all frustrated, but I find it more constructive to discuss ideas, facts, and law rather than personalities. I appreciate other case insights and perspectives as to the facts and law of course. JMO.

My problem is that a lot of the so called facts presented are pulled from the fantasy based totally misleading and unsupported Franks Motion.
The only legal discussion involves the silly defense declared feud against Judge Gull.
A trial would end this, but the defense won’t allow it.
I will join a book club if I want to discuss fiction.
Silly childish grudges do not further the case.
I’m no longer interested in RA’s prison accommodations. Asked and answered and ruled on.
I am interested in these two young girls.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Per the LEs depos, there is no direct evidence, no DNA, no fingerprint, no scientific evidence, no electronic evidence linking RA to victims or crime.

Although we know that during RL search warrant, they had fibres, hair and noted that the killer took items of clothing. We never heard of any of that again.

I believe they have direct evidence of some type, but maybe not.
Guilty people are convicted everyday on circumstantial evidence.

 

[steeltowngirl]

That will be hard for a jury to ignore.

Except - if EF's DNA was not found on the girls. Seems if he had spit on the girls as suggested, his DNA would have been detected.

jmo

 

[Emma Peel]

No.
Sometimes things are actually what they appear to be.
There is nothing that benefits the prosecution or defense here.
The prosecution doesn’t want it misused and twisted into some fantastic tale by the defense. This is what the defense has done repeatedly.
I, for one, am tired of hearing how this rogue defense team is working tirelessly to protect RA’s rights and save him from a massive LE conspiracy. They are not, because there is no conspiracy.
The defense is working tirelessly to have a child murderer go free, NOT by having him found not guilty by a jury from the evidence presented at trial, but by some legal technicality or fantastical claim like judge bias.
Who wants that? And don’t give me the old “better that one guilty man go free than….blah blah blah” stuff. I agree with that, but that is not what is happening here. This defense team is using lies and half-truths and manipulation to get a guilty man freed. That’s not justice for anybody in my opinion.

It's pretty simple, IMO.

Arguments in Limine will determine admissibility of evidence. Geofencing evidence is on the P's limine clarification/argument list.

The Prosecution motioned their concerns re: geofencing evidence (see the P's limine motion). The Prosecution would object to the Defense's use of the geofencing reports "to confuse/mislead" the jury at trial - should that even occur. The P would object if the geofencing reports are to be used implicate individuals that LE has cleared. The Court can place those limits as warranted.

That being said, the area of the geofencing IS that final crime scene. LE believes and asserts that RA (or RA's accomplice(s)) was at the crime scene, murdering the girls between a certain timeline window. The Defense is entitled to the geofencing report as it relates to the presence and identification of ALL PHONES at crime scene within LE's timeline window and as it supports or discredits the State's timeline for RA, for the crime.

Should the Defense find the geofencing information does not support LE's timeline they can argue that. Should the Defense find the geofencing supports a different timeline, they can argue that, etc..

JMHO

 

[Jade]

[...]
Indiana State Police superintendent Doug Carter says they have several pieces and parts but they are looking for the one piece of evidence that will crack the case.

“I know that we have the human element – we have a very solid science element,” he said. “We are using every capable process that we have from a scientific perspective as everyone would expect us to, and we will continue to do that until there is nothing left to do. does that include DNA? It does. We have not ruled out the possibility that it is a local person. Every time we clear somebody it gets us closer. We are confident that somewhere in the tips we have valuable information and every time we can eliminate one we can move on to the next.”
[...]
https://cbs4indy.com/news/fbi-inves...ogether-profile-of-suspect-in-delphi-murders/


[...]
Leazenby did say investigators have asked for DNA evidence to be “fast-tracked.”

“I can’t go into the specifics because of the ongoing (investigation), that’s being expedited as best as it can be done,” he said.
[...]
https://fox59.com/news/carroll-coun...investigation-says-dna-evidence-fast-tracked/


imo

 

[sunshineray]

I am more interested in RA's phone records for the day

Yes especially his stock ticker app and his vehicle's GPS data.

 

[Charlot123]

.

[...]
Indiana State Police superintendent Doug Carter says they have several pieces and parts but they are looking for the one piece of evidence that will crack the case.

“I know that we have the human element – we have a very solid science element,” he said. “We are using every capable process that we have from a scientific perspective as everyone would expect us to, and we will continue to do that until there is nothing left to do. does that include DNA? It does. We have not ruled out the possibility that it is a local person. Every time we clear somebody it gets us closer. We are confident that somewhere in the tips we have valuable information and every time we can eliminate one we can move on to the next.”
[...]
https://cbs4indy.com/news/fbi-inves...ogether-profile-of-suspect-in-delphi-murders/


[...]
Leazenby did say investigators have asked for DNA evidence to be “fast-tracked.”

“I can’t go into the specifics because of the ongoing (investigation), that’s being expedited as best as it can be done,” he said.
[...]
https://fox59.com/news/carroll-coun...investigation-says-dna-evidence-fast-tracked/


imo

About DNA - Carter spoke about it since 2017 and nothing was done, no offense. So I stopped following the case. So much for their fast-tracking. Maybe they did, and maybe it didn’t match anyone. It might even be the situation when DNA is “non-local” which won’t exclude the locals (NPE, for example).

The only thing I trust because it never changed since 2017 is that the murderer “knew the lay of the land” and for this, you either have to be a local, or have local relatives. I suspect the latter would be enough.

 

[Jade]

.


About DNA - Carter spoke about it since 2017 and nothing was done, no offense. So I stopped following the case. So much for their fast-tracking. Maybe they did, and maybe it didn’t match anyone. It might even be the situation when DNA is “non-local” which won’t exclude the locals (NPE, for example).

The only thing I trust because it never changed since 2017 is that the murderer “knew the lay of the land” and for this, you either have to be a local, or have local relatives. I suspect the latter would be enough.

Are you aware then its not gone to trial where the Prosecution's evidence is presented to a jury for consideration?

Otherwise how would anyone know nothings been done?

Isn't that a pretty good reason RA is in jail is he's Mr. DNA guy?

Interested in seeing your links that say "nothing has been done" when RA is incarcerated awaiting trial.


all imo

 

[sunshineray]

No.
Sometimes things are actually what they appear to be.
There is nothing that benefits the prosecution or defense here.
The prosecution doesn’t want it misused and twisted into some fantastic tale by the defense. This is what the defense has done repeatedly.
I, for one, am tired of hearing how this rogue defense team is working tirelessly to protect RA’s rights and save him from a massive LE conspiracy. They are not, because there is no conspiracy.
The defense is working tirelessly to have a child murderer go free, NOT by having him found not guilty by a jury from the evidence presented at trial, but by some legal technicality or fantastical claim like judge bias.
Who wants that? And don’t give me the old “better that one guilty man go free than….blah blah blah” stuff. I agree with that, but that is not what is happening here. This defense team is using lies and half-truths and manipulation to get a guilty man freed. That’s not justice for anybody in my opinion.

And the telling thing with me is the under handedness with which they've done things. Saying one thing but doing another. It's happened time and time again. Then when called out, they say look how badly we're being treated by the court and the prosecutor. They also just wish away and don't take accountability for their actions. There's a subpar aspect to their legal work that just jumps off the page and is quite noticable in their courtroom performance too. Just all my observations and opinions.

 

[sunshineray]

Let’s be honest, though you have to love a grand old conspiracy that the guilty man is happy to go along with. I can’t think of many innocent men that would happily be framed and help them out to make the case more solid.

Is RA happy to go along though? The 30+ confessions might make a case for the opposite being true?

 

[Charlot123]

Are you aware then its not gone to trial where the Prosecution's evidence is presented to a jury for consideration?

Otherwise how would anyone know nothings been done?

Isn't that a pretty good reason RA is in jail is he's Mr. DNA guy?

Interested in seeing your links that say "nothing has been done" when RA is incarcerated awaiting trial.


all imo

You know why I followed this case? Because sadly, I heard through genealogy grapevine that they were planning to test the DNA they had in 2018.

Then, radio silence. I suspect that maybe DNA was tested and didn’t match anyone. Just anyone. You sometimes have a very rare Y, for example, so rare that you know it is not expected to be local. I know they tested volunteers - maybe all they needed were several families, and the guy’s DNA was an outlier. An outlier is not surprising, a sailor drives through the village and here is an outlier in the next generation. However, if:
- the perpetrator is not local but stayed with, say, their grandparents 10 years ago so no one remembers him,
- and it could be as far as Peru or Kokomo
- and genetically , the perpetrator is a rare mix but is a “local”

Here is your problem with the DNA.