Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #23

[mishy66]

I also believe there is a gambling angle to this case too. There have been a few hints he was a gambler (surely every conman is a gambler at heart) and I can’t see him not enjoying a bit of ‘fun’ with some of his ill gotten gains. It’s also a way of moving/disposing of cash.

Whether his gambling took place whilst in Europe (South of France & Belgium in the casinos/racetracks) or somewhere in Australia is the question.

A leopard never changes its spots right?

IK also told MJR he was a gambler way back then

Diane also mentioned he "only had small wins" ...... in case Centrelink was watching


Do you know if he also gambled in Lux/ Belgium @DerZuschauer

 

[mishy66]

Yes there does look to be some sort of pattern here with him and the victims we know of so far

Somehow he must keep track of all of these women - I don't believe they are just randomly picked out and then forgotten about. IMO he has records of who he has fleeced. His filing cabinet is a handy tool for this IMO

1. All seem to have known him/ either family / have met him/ been introduced to with family / MB also told SL that a mutual friend introduced them ( whether that is correct who knows) BUT he has no qualms of anyone connected to the victims meeting him.

2. SOCCER - There is a connection to soccer with FR being a well known European player . JW being a well known Aust player. He has an affair with FR wife and caught MB in is net. He uses the initials FNMR for MB for a reason.

3. COINS - He knew the husband of JO who was involved with coins - pretty brazen thing to do given so many people would know him back then in those circles.

4. We know he used the surname of one victim as one of his aliases - how many more??

5. For the victims names we know of so far, (not including those others who have been mentioned on the podcast with no name revealed) - there is a pattern with "possible victims" and "known victims"

Two a year - Red are possible victims

I will include 1994 because there are so many trips taken that year.

1994 - multiple short trips taken to UK & Europe after the ad is placed in Dec 1994 - from March to April and July to September - Victims unknown


1997 - Also including Marion Barter



1999 -Janet Oldenburg
1999 - Georgette Van Acker - last seen Lille Train Station - convinced she was known to AH - too many links to this name through researching family

2005 - Rosemary Zillig
2004 / 2005 ?- * ER mentions AH talked about a Melbourne woman that he had recently robbed & given fake mobile number



2010 - Andree Flamme
2010 - SCHÖLLER-GYÜRE Monika - Kalmthout Antwerp

2012 - CL – family
2012 - Jennifer McDonald - last seen Neutral Bay New South Wales

I posted some similarities that I noticed while looking at his victims.

Thanks to @DerZuschauer one part of it was rectified, in that FR was not a famous soccer player in Europe.
( although you wouldnt know that going on how he talked himself up with Aust journo and MC interview).

AH would have known all about FR soccer career. Thanks to his affair with MC. And his little business down the road to FR business

All these little pieces of gold go a long way to make up his BS down the track. Even if its years down the track.

AH met Marion in Feb 1997 it's alleged and by May she had changed her name to the initials FNMR, the same initials of his stolen FR license .

Feb to May. What would they have talked about leading up to her name change to make her feel trusted and secure.

She knew she was off to Luxembourg and going to be married to a wealthy toad at least!

She was married to one of Australia's soccer legends and low and behold FR was a soccer player in Luxembourg. What would have been a common element that he could really use to sink his claw into her. Something both of them had a connection to.

Soocer is my first guess.

Soccer players
Teachers
Real Estate
Literature
Theatre
Antiques

 

[DerZuschauer]

She was married to one of Australia's soccer legends and low and behold FR was a soccer player in Luxembourg.

Okay, that way it works out. He knew about her marriage to JW and happened to have another soccer player in his file cabinet. Very handy. The same way he (maybe) knew about GD having an ex-partner with Hungarian roots, so for her, he played the FdH-card. I get that.
In Marion's case it's a connection HE made, not one that existed already. (And IMO, this interpretation, namely that there IS a soccer connection already, when there wasn't yet, was what bungled the doorstep incident in Luxemburg. For 7, FR just HAD to be it. No other possibility.)

In GD's case, the Hungarian connection might have been a coincidence, because maybe he DIDN'T know about the Hungarian ex-Partner when he signed the first letter FdH. Hope that makes sense.

FR was not a famous soccer player in Europe.
( although you wouldnt know that going on how he talked himself up with Aust journo

I don't remember FR talking himself up. All I remember is some banter between him and the policemen towards the end of the doorstep meeting about him being a former soccer player and that he had to give it up because of injuries. I also don't remember MC talking about his soccer career any more than the bit from the initial phone call I quoted above. But it's been going on for five years now, so maybe I'm missing something...?

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Okay, that way it works out. He knew about her marriage to JW and happened to have another soccer player in his file cabinet. Very handy. The same way he (maybe) knew about GD having an ex-partner with Hungarian roots, so for her, he played the FdH-card. I get that.
In Marion's case it's a connection HE made, not one that existed already. (And IMO, this interpretation, namely that there IS a soccer connection already, when there wasn't yet, was what bungled the doorstep incident in Luxemburg. For 7, FR just HAD to be it. No other possibility.)

In GD's case, the Hungarian connection might have been a coincidence, because maybe he DIDN'T know about the Hungarian ex-Partner when he signed the first letter FdH. Hope that makes sense.


I don't remember FR talking himself up. All I remember is some banter between him and the policemen towards the end of the doorstep meeting about him being a former soccer player and that he had to give it up because of injuries. I also don't remember MC talking about his soccer career any more than the bit from the initial phone call I quoted above. But it's been going on for five years now, so maybe I'm missing something...?

Thanks DerZ. I do wonder just how far Aka went when taking on the the role of the real FR when with Marion. Did he possibly mention ‘I too used to play international football’? If he did fully take on the role of the real FR there was no way Marion was ever going to visit Luxembourg. I still believe he initially met her at the Arts Centre whether by accident or design.

Perhaps I missed it but I didn’t know about the Hungarian connection with GD. I might be very wide of the mark with my fanciful thinking but I shan’t be surprised if Aka was really Jewish Hungarian.

Sadly I don’t think C7 had countenanced the possibility that someone had stolen the identity of the real FR when they visited Luxembourg. At the same time I still found the reactions of FR & MC a little odd. They must have known this probably had something to do with Aka. I wonder if MC & FR spoke to each other after C7 came a calling? I’m going to be blunt but I don’t believe MCs story about the stolen ID card.

On that subject if a Luxembourg National has their ID card stolen surely this would be a Police matter and MC would have been aware of who stole it?

 

[mishy66]

Thanks DerZ. I do wonder just how far Aka went when taking on the the role of the real FR when with Marion. Did he possibly mention ‘I too used to play international football’? If he did fully take on the role of the real FR there was no way Marion was ever going to visit Luxembourg. I still believe he initially met her at the Arts Centre whether by accident or design.

Perhaps I missed it but I didn’t know about the Hungarian connection with GD. I might be very wide of the mark with my fanciful thinking but I shan’t be surprised if Aka was really Jewish Hungarian.

Sadly I don’t think C7 had countenanced the possibility that someone had stolen the identity of the real FR when they visited Luxembourg. At the same time I still found the reactions of FR & MC a little odd. They must have known this probably had something to do with Aka. I wonder if MC & FR spoke to each other after C7 came a calling? I’m going to be blunt but I don’t believe MCs story about the stolen ID card.

On that subject if a Luxembourg National has their ID card surely this would be a Police matter and MC would have been aware of who stole it?

@Lord Peter Flimsy
Love it

 

[Procrastinator]

Last two paragraphs on page 260 of the recently published book ‘The Lady Vanishes’ …

“Back on the stand, he’s questioned about a business named Renov Pubs registered in Belgium. The company was registered in 1968 by Frederick De Dehervary. Since 25 May 2021, the business number has been linked to Ric Blum and is still active.

Blum denies any knowledge of the company”.

https://b2bhint.com/en/company/be/renov-pubs--0858.473.358

https://dcj.nsw.gov.au/documents/contact-us/feedback-and-complaints/perjury.pdf

What is perjury? Perjury is the offence of making a false statement when under an oath. The elements of the offence of perjury include that the false statement:
· was made when under an oath
· was made in, or in connection with, any judicial proceeding
· concerns any matter which is material to the proceeding
· that the person made the statement knowing it to be false or not believing it to be true.
Perjury is a serious offence, and in NSW there are a range of maximum penalties under the Crimes Act 1900, depending on the circumstances of the offence. It is also a serious offence to procure, persuade, induce or otherwise cause a person to give false testimony that amounts to perjury.

 

[Laidback]

Last two paragraphs on page 260 of the recently published book ‘The Lady Vanishes’ …

“Back on the stand, he’s questioned about a business named Renov Pubs registered in Belgium. The company was registered in 1968 by Frederick De Dehervary. Since 25 May 2021, the business number has been linked to Ric Blum and is still active.

Blum denies any knowledge of the company”.

https://b2bhint.com/en/company/be/renov-pubs--0858.473.358

https://dcj.nsw.gov.au/documents/contact-us/feedback-and-complaints/perjury.pdf

What is perjury? Perjury is the offence of making a false statement when under an oath. The elements of the offence of perjury include that the false statement:
· was made when under an oath
· was made in, or in connection with, any judicial proceeding
· concerns any matter which is material to the proceeding
· that the person made the statement knowing it to be false or not believing it to be true.
Perjury is a serious offence, and in NSW there are a range of maximum penalties under the Crimes Act 1900, depending on the circumstances of the offence. It is also a serious offence to procure, persuade, induce or otherwise cause a person to give false testimony that amounts to perjury.

View attachment 516610

Wonder why he denied it

 

[Procrastinator]

Wonder why he denied it

80,000 reasons on 15 October 1997

 

[Lcdrabbit]

This is my first post, so apologies in advance if I do anything wrong or if I'm rehashing information that has already been posted!

I was having a look through the personal ads in Le Courrier Australien and found a couple from 1991 that piqued my interest. In the 10 May 1991 issue (p28), there’s an ad from someone called Paul:

VEUF, (maison, voiture) cherche dame jusqu’à 55 ans sans engagement. Amitié, mariage si compatible. Tél.: PAUL (02) 977 2573.

[WIDOWER, (house, car) looking for a lady up to 55 years of age without obligation. Friendship, marriage if compatible. Tel.: PAUL (02) 977 2573.]

There’s then another ad in the 20 December 1991 issue (p31) with similar text and the same phone number listed, but this time the contact name is given as Eric:

VEUF sans enfant, maison, voiture, cherche dame (45-55 ans) amitié et mariage. Tél.: Eric (02) 977 2573, après 20H.

[WIDOWER without children, house, car, looking for lady (45-55 years old) friendship and marriage. Tel.: Eric (02) 977 2573, after 8 pm.]

I did a Google search for the phone number listed in the ads (with an added “9” at the beginning, i.e., 9977 2573, as I assumed from the area code the phone number would be registered in Sydney) and found a listing for someone with initials that correspond to the names in the personal ads and the same surname as one of AKA’s aliases. There does appear to have been someone from Sydney with that name who passed away in 2010, which is why I’m being particularly careful not to name them here. It just seemed a bit strange to me why someone would run similar ads months apart but list a different contact name each time (using their middle name and then their first name), combined with the coincidence of the phone number belonging to someone with the same surname as one of AKA’s aliases. I'm not sure what it make of it but thought it was curious enough to share here.

 

[Ooohm]

Good work Lcdrabbit!

It’s certainly like AKA’s method.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Last two paragraphs on page 260 of the recently published book ‘The Lady Vanishes’ …

“Back on the stand, he’s questioned about a business named Renov Pubs registered in Belgium. The company was registered in 1968 by Frederick De Dehervary. Since 25 May 2021, the business number has been linked to Ric Blum and is still active.

Blum denies any knowledge of the company”.

https://b2bhint.com/en/company/be/renov-pubs--0858.473.358

https://dcj.nsw.gov.au/documents/contact-us/feedback-and-complaints/perjury.pdf

What is perjury? Perjury is the offence of making a false statement when under an oath. The elements of the offence of perjury include that the false statement:
· was made when under an oath
· was made in, or in connection with, any judicial proceeding
· concerns any matter which is material to the proceeding
· that the person made the statement knowing it to be false or not believing it to be true.
Perjury is a serious offence, and in NSW there are a range of maximum penalties under the Crimes Act 1900, depending on the circumstances of the offence. It is also a serious offence to procure, persuade, induce or otherwise cause a person to give false testimony that amounts to perjury.

View attachment 516610

This company has been known for some time but I don’t know how things work in Belgium. Who can gain full access to the company records, and why have we heard so little about it about it since the Inquest? So many answers may lay within.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

This is my first post, so apologies in advance if I do anything wrong or if I'm rehashing information that has already been posted!

I was having a look through the personal ads in Le Courrier Australien and found a couple from 1991 that piqued my interest. In the 10 May 1991 issue (p28), there’s an ad from someone called Paul:

VEUF, (maison, voiture) cherche dame jusqu’à 55 ans sans engagement. Amitié, mariage si compatible. Tél.: PAUL (02) 977 2573.

[WIDOWER, (house, car) looking for a lady up to 55 years of age without obligation. Friendship, marriage if compatible. Tel.: PAUL (02) 977 2573.]

There’s then another ad in the 20 December 1991 issue (p31) with similar text and the same phone number listed, but this time the contact name is given as Eric:

VEUF sans enfant, maison, voiture, cherche dame (45-55 ans) amitié et mariage. Tél.: Eric (02) 977 2573, après 20H.

[WIDOWER without children, house, car, looking for lady (45-55 years old) friendship and marriage. Tel.: Eric (02) 977 2573, after 8 pm.]

I did a Google search for the phone number listed in the ads (with an added “9” at the beginning, i.e., 9977 2573, as I assumed from the area code the phone number would be registered in Sydney) and found a listing for someone with initials that correspond to the names in the personal ads and the same surname as one of AKA’s aliases. There does appear to have been someone from Sydney with that name who passed away in 2010, which is why I’m being particularly careful not to name them here. It just seemed a bit strange to me why someone would run similar ads months apart but list a different contact name each time (using their middle name and then their first name), combined with the coincidence of the phone number belonging to someone with the same surname as one of AKA’s aliases. I'm not sure what it make of it but thought it was curious enough to share here.

Very interesting. Can I check was the surname shown in the 1991 ads you’ve found or was that after searching the phone number?

 

[Lcdrabbit]

Very interesting. Can I check was the surname shown in the 1991 ads you’ve found or was that after searching the phone number?

No, the surname isn't mentioned in the ads. I only found it when I searched for the phone number. The alias I'm referring to is one that appears in a handwritten list in the NAA file. I think it might have been referred to in the inquest, as well, but I'm not certain.

I'm not necessarily suggesting that I think the ads are related to AKA, especially considering there does appear to be an actual person with that name who was living in Sydney at the time. I just thought the discrepancy with the names was curious enough to warrant a bit of investigation.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

No, the surname isn't mentioned in the ads. I only found it when I searched for the phone number. The alias I'm referring to is one that appears in a handwritten list in the NAA file. I think it might have been referred to in the inquest, as well, but I'm not certain.

I'm not necessarily suggesting that I think the ads are related to AKA, especially considering there does appear to be an actual person with that name who was living in Sydney at the time. I just thought the discrepancy with the names was curious enough to warrant a bit of investigation.

I asked because with the 1994 ad he included the surname Remakel which was a big mistake on his part. If he’d chosen to just use Fernand he would probably still be unknown to us today.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think he thought that the name Remakel would be a big attraction.

Though, in my opinion the name would mean nothing to the majority of Australians.

 

[Liselle]

Very interesting. Can I check was the surname shown in the 1991 ads you’ve found or was that after searching the phone number?

@Lord Peter Flimsy "Grech"

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

@Lord Peter Flimsy "Grech"

NSW Police know he has used this surname as Anthony/Tony. One of the things that frustrated me at the Inquest was that he wasn’t questioned in what capacity he was using various aliases. I realise that might be for legal reasons or NSW Police want to keep it up their sleeve, or there were time constraints.

One question is was Aka not only fleecing women but did he also pick on elderly widowers/single men that might have come into money or would be deemed lonely & vulnerable?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I have a feeling that the surface has only been scratched and there are many more misdeeds to be hopefully discovered.

 

[Liselle]

@Lord Peter Flimsy Unfortunately we all seem to have had too much faith in the outcome of the Coroner’s Inquest when its only purpose was to ascertain whether MB was deceased so SL could get a death certificate and be able to wind up her mother’s estate. The exact how, when and where her passing occurred was not a necessity. And although WE here could all "paint the picture", this was always going to require a criminal investigation which I personally believe will NEVER happen. The criminal justice system in NSW currently seems overwhelmed with cases that CAN and WILL be solved without too much effort. It would have been ideal if someone with the know-how like Hedley Thomas had come on board in the early days as he "solved" a cold case outlined in his podcast "The Teacher's Pet" which led to a conviction. Mr Thomas is now working on a new coldcase/podcast "Bronwyn" which is also looking promising to being solved. So with MB, I guess it's going to be "Watch This Space" for many years to come still……..so sad.

 

[KinseyFan]

See Joni has put a call out on the fb page? Asking for everyone’s theories on why Marion changed her name…