Spain Jay Slater, 19, missing on holiday in Tenerife, 17 June 2024 #3

[Ruthbullock]

Would be interesting to know how much time was inbetween the Snapchat video call with Brad and the FaceTime with Lucy. Also Brad said someone was calling him so he said I’ll call ya back. Who called him and why didn’t he call Brad back? Assuming his phone wasn’t dead.

Perhaps Lucy called him at that point, we just don’t know

 

[Helen_Stewart]

Just from a general SAR perspective. If they're after trained volunteers?

Well, yeah. But as I said previously, there is so much interest in this case, that it is possible that many well-intentioned, but inexperienced people will turn up. Anyway, let's see how it goes tomorrow.

 

[Kor_Phaeron]

Would be interesting to know how much time was inbetween the Snapchat video call with Brad and the FaceTime with Lucy. Also Brad said someone was calling him so he said I’ll call ya back. Who called him and why didn’t he call Brad back? Assuming his phone wasn’t dead

Jay was never quoted as saying that. He told Brad he'd call him back, but he never said somebody else was calling. Brad just assumed that.

I was getting a bit of stick on the last thread regarding the last "ping" and Paul Arnott's discrediting of it but not sure how to reply cross thread. But I think it's important and this is why I think it's nonsense.
<snip>
Mast Triangulation won't have come into it, so god knows what this influencer is up to. People need to stop taking these self serving nutjobs seriously.

He has developed an almost cult-like following on Facebook/TikTok. It's unreal. There are people starting honest to God petitions to have him nominated for a pride of Britain award... He's no better than that MWT fool. Placing himself in the limelight and praying he makes the big discovery in order to boost his online presence.

No wonder the Guardia want nothing to do with him.

 

[Kor_Phaeron]

Were the Police aware quite early on about the call with Brad? Why has it taken this long for it to surface in the public domain? Have they been searching the area where he was on the call with Brad?

Because it wasn't in the public's interest (or frankly, anybodies business).

 

[Ruthbullock]

I was getting a bit of stick on the last thread regarding the last "ping" and Paul Arnott's discrediting of it but not sure how to reply cross thread. But I think it's important and this is why I think it's nonsense.

Firstly, calling the final location a "ping" is misleading. We should have all seen the screenshots in question in previous threads, assuming they are real, what we have is Jay sharing his location via what seems to be WhatsApp. The exact application isn't important, because the location would have been sourced from Apple Location Services on his iPhone, which would have been active as he was reportedly using Apple Maps.

Apple Location services uses four sources for it's location:

• GPS
• WiFi. Apple effectively crowdsources the locations of WiFi hotspots.
• Bluetooth Beacons.
• Mobile Phone Masts

The latter 3 it uses for triangulation. The algorithm for fusing these sources is proprietary, but we could hazard a guess that in, say, urban areas where WiFi hotspots and masts are plentiful, they can probably save some battery life and bin off the GPS. But Jay was in the back of beyond, so we can be pretty sure the final location was from GPS. Ironically, the fact he was connected to a phone mast makes it more certain. The iPhone uses A-GPS. Which means the Almanac and Ephemeris data can be delivered from the phone network rather than at a super slow bitrate from the satellites. So no long time-to-fix. A nice clear view of the sky to the West too.

Mast Triangulation won't have come into it, so god knows what this influencer is up to. People need to stop taking these self serving nutjobs seriously.

Having had to use Apple Maps to meet a family member on a road- it’s not as pin point as you are trying to lead everyone to believe. It was also shared via live location as Brad said in his interview, again this has a Timelapse and is not perfect. There is also some question over different last locations being shared, as there has been a few shared around and how it was gained, as some apps work much better than others in remoter areas- particularly when you are abroad. My husband shares his location via apple when driving, I can assure you it jumps and looks like he time hops sometimes. They give you a general area, but are not always accurate for so many reasons- driving over the Pennines is one and that has far less ridges than where Jay was.

 

[Coach]

If he hadn’t hurt his leg by the time he was on the phone to Brad while walking, could that be what prompted him to get off the phone. Could he have been distracted and hurt his leg, saying he would call Brad back? Brad assumed that Jay had another call coming in but there could be another reason why he had to end the call. He could have hurt his leg or could he have come into contact with someone in person?

 

[Kor_Phaeron]

Having had to use Apple Maps to meet a family member on a road- it’s not as pin point as you are trying to lead everyone to believe. It was also shared via live location as Brad said in his interview, again this has a Timelapse and is not perfect. There is also some question over different last locations being shared, as there has been a few shared around and how it was gained, as some apps work much better than others in remoter areas- particularly when you are abroad. My husband shares his location via apple when driving, I can assure you it jumps and looks like he time hops sometimes. They give you a general area, but are not always accurate for so many reasons- driving over the Pennines is one and that has far less ridges than where Jay was.

Yes, but Paul Arnott's claim that they used triangulation and 'cameras with loads of sim cards' to find a more accurate location is complete and utter bullocks.

He would need to petition the signal provider/mast operator on the island in order to get any kind of historical GSM/3/4/5G connection data (and probably Jay's service provider as well). These companies aren't handing that kind of information out to some random TikTok influencer, regardless of how many followers he has. Particularly since GDPR came into force.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Yes, but Paul Arnott's claim that they used triangulation and 'cameras with loads of sim cards' to find a more accurate location is complete and utter bullocks.

To be fair even Lucy said in the first few days they tested it and it wasn’t an accurate pinpoint using their own phones- so the fact a news reporter who has to send his recordings back to the UK has more sims and technology, can track it using receiving equipment in real time with a tv crew back in the UK doesn’t seem that surprising.

 

[Shellie85]

Lancashire police were not offering to put feet on the ground, but they do have access to UK criminal records and could have shared that information with the Tenerife police. As Jay was a UK citizen they can also initiate help from interpol and if anything is found to be nefarious and some people are back on UK soil, they could also assist. It was foolish I personally think for them to not to have good grace and accept whatever information could be shared.

I don’t think the Spanish police have ever looked at this as a criminal investigation. They have obviously known about Brad speaking to jay from the start and clearly saw the boy has more than likely had a misadventure. Tbh, imo, I always thought the same. A young man, out partying all night, probably took the mountains thinking he had found a short cut and suddenly he is lost or he falls. It is so unbelievably easy to get lost on mountains or lose footing, stand on loose rocks, so many things can happen, and does year after year, even with experienced climbers. Some of these rumours and downright lies on social media are beyond over the top. How people can be so vile towards a family of a kid who is missing I will never understand .

 

[tedtink]

I'm seriously considering going out to help search. I've got some time on my hands, used to be a competent skier, walk my 10k steps everyday and do hot yoga 3 times a week. Just gotta dig out my walking boots.

 

[Kor_Phaeron]

To be fair even Lucy said in the first few days they tested it and it wasn’t an accurate pinpoint using their own phones- so the fact a news reporter who has to send his recordings back to the UK has more sims and technology, can track it using receiving equipment in real time with a tv crew back in the UK doesn’t seem that surprising.

Track what? There's nothing to track. The  only way that Paul Arnott and co. Would be able to see where Jay's phone last relayed a mast would be if they had access to mast data. No amount of technology can look back in real time to when a phone was last transmitting. And even if Jay's phone was still online, you cannot triangulate a phone using other phones. It doesn't work like that.

 

[Normal Norm]

Would be interesting to know how much time was inbetween the Snapchat video call with Brad and the FaceTime with Lucy. Also Brad said someone was calling him so he said I’ll call ya back. Who called him and why didn’t he call Brad back? Assuming his phone wasn’t dead.

I get the impression that there was very little time between the two calls - probably no more than a few minutes, and possibly as little as a few seconds. What I am struggling to understand is why, in this very short space of time (and if all reports can be believed), Jay experiences the mood swing described by @Kor_Phaeron a few posts back.

A couple of possibilities spring to mind, both of which I have experienced personally:

1. Vertigo - out of nowhere, and in the space of less than a minute, I was vomiting and experiencing "room-spin".
2. An allergic reaction which, within minutes, caused my limbs, throat and face to swell up. In my case it was caused by a bite (actually a cut) from a horse-fly.

In both cases, luckily, I came through unscathed (although the latter necessitated a very quick visit to the hospital and immediate treatment with strong anti-histamines). Either of these could have had catastrophic consequences for Jay, given his last known location.

 

[Helen_Stewart]

I'm seriously considering going out to help search. I've got some time on my hands, used to be a competent skier, walk my 10k steps everyday and do hot yoga 3 times a week. Just gotta dig out my walking boots.

Don't forget your skis as they might come in handy, when you traverse down the ravine.

 

[MissCluedo]

Apologies if this is a basic question (I am fairly new to this case)
Wasn't his phone supposed to be low on battery ? Why would you decide to make or receive a video call if that were the case ? When was this information about the video call given to the police ? Was it at the start of the investigation or has his friend now just volunteered this information ?

I wonder if there is video footage of her taking that phonecall?
Be it even a door bell camera or a dash camera.
I just wonder where she was when she took that call and if along the lines there has been something unsaid or lies etc?

The latest info released on the other friend

Jay Slater's last phone call to pal 'cut off' by mystery caller

Jay Slater's best friend, Brad Hargreaves, shared the final phone call he had with the missing teen as the search continues.

www.google.com

video call from friend

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/jay-slaters-last-phone-call-33130323.am

<modsnip: not an approved source>

 

[BrianJohnson]

My feeling is still that he ended up in the sea after accidentally falling from height, i think he headed off road till he could see water and lost his footing on the descent

 

[Ruthbullock]

Track what? There's nothing to track. The  only way that Paul Arnott and co. Would be able to see where Jay's phone last relayed a mast would be if they had access to mast data. No amount of technology can look back in real time to when a phone was last transmitting. And even if Jay's phone was still online, you cannot triangulate a phone using other phones. It doesn't work like that.

So what are you disputing? That no one should look elsewhere? Even the local police are looking further afield now? He hasn’t been found in the location that we thought the ping was from- so rational people search further afield.

 

[Ruthbullock]

My feeling is still that he ended up in the sea after accidentally falling from height, i think he headed off road till he could see water and lost his footing on the descent

I struggle to see he would have even got that far, but it’s just my opinion.

 

[Kor_Phaeron]

I get the impression that there was very little time between the two calls - probably no more than a few minutes, and possibly as little as a few seconds. What I am struggling to understand is why, in this very short space of time (and if all reports can be believed), Jay experiences the mood swing described by @Kor_Phaeron a few posts back.

I think it's worth remembering that according to Jay's stepfather, he was not one to walk any kinds of distance, and would need to be driven a few hundred yards to get a haircut.
I can quite imagine Jay waking up with a bit of Dutch courage and deciding to go for a hike up the mountain to get a picture/video of the view (likes and shares are irresistible to teenagers).

Being that he's far from being an experienced walker, it wouldn't surprise me at all if that initial Dutch courage quickly vanished after getting caught in the leg by a cactus while sliding down the hill. Cactus spines can be particularly nasty and cause pretty severe swelling. This would have quickly sobered Jay up and possibly put him I to panic mode, or even shock. Shock can be a killer, especially if he's dehydrated from a night of partying already.

As morbid as it is, I suspect that he called Brad in high spirits, probably excited about his excursion, then slipped and caught himself on a cactus whilst on the call, prompting him to tell Brad he'd call him back.
The cactus injury begins to swell or otherwise turn particularly nasty, prompting Jay to panic and call Lucy (who appears to have the most experience with the island out of the group).
Jay then passes out/falls somewhere on the mountainside, south of the path. JMO.

 

[Helen_Stewart]

I really think too much emphasis is being placed on these phone calls.
Obviously, the police would be fully aware from the start of the investigation of what was said and when, regarding these conversations.

 

[Kor_Phaeron]

So what are you disputing? That no one should look elsewhere? Even the local police are looking further afield now? He hasn’t been found in the location that we thought the ping was from- so rational people search further afield.

I'm simply disputing Arnott's claim that he has a more accurate location for Jay. It's nonsense. JMO.