Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #8

[changintimes]

If RH indeed walked over to the car, you’d reckon he would be turning the music off rather going for the guns. It becomes all the more unbelievable when he says the magazine was on the front seat, and RH accessed both areas. As if to have it both ways and semi cover himself for seperate ammo storage. Wierd. It’s probably because that’s where he keeps the stuff anyway, it’s just that no one took anything.

RH could well have intended turning the music down or even off until he saw the opportunity to confiscate the gun and ammo. He had a history of discussion with deer hunters in other camps in 2020 about storing guns and ammo safely and sharing the trgic death of his male relative in a deer shooting accident, which has been detailed in numerous media articles IMO and I have no doubt upon seeing the gun and ammo in a car with all doors open as detailed by GL, RH then made an instant decision to confiscate these items. RH had already spoken to GL about why he was using the drone and that had included using it at Bucks Camp for about 10 seconds when GL returned, and that he had taken footage of GL whilst he was allegedly hunting and RH had wrongly accused him of hunting illegally near Bucks Camp when GL stated he was merely making his way back to camp. RH started his radio convo at 6pm and it finished at 6.40 with no alarm noted by participants in convo.GL told detectives he was heading back to camp to have dinner.

After confiscating the gun and ammo RH told GL he intended taking the drone footage, gun and ammo to police. At some stage just after confiscating the items RH also let off 2 shots which would have then supported another detail that RH had said to GL during their conversation, that RH had said he would tell police that GL had earlier fired a shot through the campsite. So firing off the two shots RH was gaining evidence to support his future police report.

This detail has been in numerous media reports and is also in the interview video. IMO

 

[Cliff Hardy]

RH then made an instant decision to confiscate these items.

So Russell Hill had the weapon in one hand, the ammunition in the other and while in the dark, in his pajamas, with music blaring and Lynn in pursuit of him, Hill loaded that weapon, unfamiliar to him, with one hand?

 

[changintimes]

I have no doubt in my mind there will be an appeal and don't see any good reason why it will be successful.

Fresh ballistic studies including studies of markings on the RH vehice applied by an attending scene officer on 28th and further examination of scene photos including aerials may well prove or support any fresh ballistic or other studies.

The elongated marking applied prior to the police knowledge of GL at the scene, therefore also prior to any statements made by GL, were applied to the passenger side of the vehicle front, tends to support an alternative view as later statements concerning what GL stated had occurred at Bucks Camp on 20th.

Note this image has a caption that reads 'supplied Supreme Court'.

 

[changintimes]

So Russell Hill had the weapon in one hand, the ammunition in the other and while in the dark, in his pajamas, with music blaring and Lynn in pursuit of him, Hill loaded that weapon, unfamiliar to him, with one hand?

The 4 car doors were open and therefore highly likely the internal lights were on. A campfire was burning adjacent to the vehicle. An operational lantern was nearby RH vehicle. RH was wearing a head torch. Numerous media articles and video tape of interview.

May I ask if you are a private investigator as the detail in your avatar indicates?

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Fresh ballistic studies including studies of markings on the RH vehice applied by an attending scene officer on 28th and further examination of scene photos including aerials may well prove or support any fresh ballistic or other studies.

The elongated marking applied prior to the police knowledge of GL at the scene, therefore also prior to any statements made by GL, were applied to the passenger side of the vehicle front, tends to support an alternative view as later statements concerning what GL stated had occurred at Bucks Camp on 20th.

Note this image has a caption that reads 'supplied Supreme Court'.

The defence had their opportunity but chose to call no witnesses let alone expert witnesses.

Yes, they did invite Lynn to spin his 'I was the victim in this' story. But that was all.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

The 4 car doors were open and therefore highly likely the internal lights were on. A campfire was burning adjacent to the vehicle. An operational lantern was nearby RH vehicle. RH was wearing a head torch. Numerous media articles and video tape of interview.

May I ask if you are a private investigator as the detail in your avatar indicates?

Russell Hill had the weapon in one hand, the ammunition in the other, was in his pajamas with Lynn in pursuit of him and Hill loaded that unfamiliar weapon with one hand? Oh please!!

 

[changintimes]

Lynn didn't require the pen and paper for all the questions he answered while he was using it. It was a crutch and the police should have said 'thank you', taken them from him and continued questioning him without him relying on it to avoid making eye contact.

Lynn destroyed all the evidence he possibly could and only told police, the judge and the jury what he thought was in his best interests. It was a small mercy that the information Lynn provided included where he had incinerated and almost reduced to dust the bodies of Russell Hill and Carol Clay.

GL made eye contact many times. Detectives would have also considered permitting GL to have the proper and biro so body language experts could view certain mannerisms IMO. Detectives knew GL employment historics and would have accessed his psych records and knew hus natural thinking processes including making notes. The supply of paper and writing implement would have been a tool to relax GL IMO.

They applied every 'rule' in their books and it is now obvious that many things the Detectives deployed were considered in a negative manner by Judges.

The wearing of masks was also reasonably 'new' and quite possibly GL 's spectacles were fogging up at times and that is why he may not have made eye contact. What did you expect him to do, place a fixed stare at one of the detectives?

 

[Cliff Hardy]

GL made eye contact many times. Detectives would have also considered permitting GL to have the proper and biro so body language experts could view certain mannerisms IMO. Detectives knew GL employment historics and would have accessed his psych records and knew hus natural thinking processes including making notes. The supply of paper and writing implement would have been a tool to relax GL IMO.

Assumptions, assumptions and more assumptions.

 

[changintimes]

The defence had their opportunity but chose to call no witnesses let alone expert witnesses.

Yes, they did invite Lynn to spin his 'I was the victim in this' story. But that was all.

The defence have every right to rely upon expert witnesses evidence and testimony supplied by prosecution. The defence do not need to supply anything! It is the prosecutor that must provide proof of their charge. When you have a major expert witness admitting under oath they made errors in their statement that supposedly supports their evidence and testimony, that opens clear avenues for appeal. Links provided a couple of days ago about this witness evidence.

 

[changintimes]

Assumptions, assumptions and more assumptions.

Far less about assumptions more like a willingness to look at matters and so called 'evidence' with an open mind.

Fresh eyes fresh mind and consideration of other possibilities.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

The defence do not need to supply anything! It is the prosecutor that must provide proof of their charge.

Correct but a good defence does everything they possibly can to discredit any evidence provided by the prosecution and at the same time paint the defendant in the best possible light with the jury. Dann failed to do this as evidenced by the guilty verdict.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Far less about assumptions more like a willingness to look at matters and so called 'evidence' with an open mind.

Fresh eyes fresh mind and consideration of other possibilities.

Where is your willingness to explain how the late Russell Hill was able to load a weapon unfamiliar to him with one hand, while in his pajamas with Lynn hot in pursuit?

 

[discostu]

And 'we' all wait so see if there is an appeal launched. That can occur within 28 days from date of conviction or longer length of time if a later application is accepted.

It is my view there will be an appeal.

The 28 days is from the date of sentencing not conviction.

 

[OwlHeart]

RH could well have intended turning the music down or even off until he saw the opportunity to confiscate the gun and ammo. He had a history of discussion with deer hunters in other camps in 2020 about storing guns and ammo safely and sharing the trgic death of his male relative in a deer shooting accident, which has been detailed in numerous media articles IMO and I have no doubt upon seeing the gun and ammo in a car with all doors open as detailed by GL, RH then made an instant decision to confiscate these items. RH had already spoken to GL about why he was using the drone and that had included using it at Bucks Camp for about 10 seconds when GL returned, and that he had taken footage of GL whilst he was allegedly hunting and RH had wrongly accused him of hunting illegally near Bucks Camp when GL stated he was merely making his way back to camp. RH started his radio convo at 6pm and it finished at 6.40 with no alarm noted by participants in convo.GL told detectives he was heading back to camp to have dinner.

After confiscating the gun and ammo RH told GL he intended taking the drone footage, gun and ammo to police. At some stage just after confiscating the items RH also let off 2 shots which would have then supported another detail that RH had said to GL during their conversation, that RH had said he would tell police that GL had earlier fired a shot through the campsite. So firing off the two shots RH was gaining evidence to support his future police report.

This detail has been in numerous media reports and is also in the interview video. IMO

So RH was worried about illegal hunting near camp + the danger of firearms and decided that recklessly stealing another persons guns & loading & shooting them in his campsite near his lady friend was a way to alleviate those concerns?

That’s <modsnip> not at all in line with RH’s character as described by those who knew him.

Whereas GL sees a cute pet pig digging his garden up and reacts by putting an axe through the head of the poor thing for innocently going about the business of being a pig

There are so many facts about GL that reveal his nature to us <modsnip: Removed personalizing comments>

 

[drsleuth]

GL made eye contact many times. Detectives would have also considered permitting GL to have the proper and biro so body language experts could view certain mannerisms IMO. Detectives knew GL employment historics and would have accessed his psych records and knew hus natural thinking processes including making notes. The supply of paper and writing implement would have been a tool to relax GL IMO.

They applied every 'rule' in their books and it is now obvious that many things the Detectives deployed were considered in a negative manner by Judges.

The wearing of masks was also reasonably 'new' and quite possibly GL 's spectacles were fogging up at times and that is why he may not have made eye contact. What did you expect him to do, place a fixed stare at one of the detectives?

BBM - what psych records ???

I doubt very much, that prior to his arrest the police were able access any psych records IMO

 

[drsleuth]

The 4 car doors were open and therefore highly likely the internal lights were on. A campfire was burning adjacent to the vehicle. An operational lantern was nearby RH vehicle. RH was wearing a head torch. Numerous media articles and video tape of interview.

May I ask if you are a private investigator as the detail in your avatar indicates?

BBM : Where is it reported that RH was wearing a head torch please?? A link would be good.

And if he was, than how come GL didn't know he was at his car until he apparently heard him in his car, the bright light of a head torch would have been very obvious IMO

 

[wallyworld]

I’m actually beginning to find you offensive.

Your perspective is as refreshing as a cold beer on a hot summer’s night

 

[discostu]

After confiscating the gun and ammo RH told GL he intended taking the drone footage, gun and ammo to police. At some stage just after confiscating the items RH also let off 2 shots which would have then supported another detail that RH had said to GL during their conversation, that RH had said he would tell police that GL had earlier fired a shot through the campsite. So firing off the two shots RH was gaining evidence to support his future police report.

This detail has been in numerous media reports and is also in the interview video. IMO

How would Russell firing off two shots himself provide evidence to support a police report?

 

[discostu]

BBM : Where is it reported that RH was wearing a head torch please?? A link would be good.

And if he was, than how come GL didn't know he was at his car until he apparently heard him in his car, the bright light of a head torch would have been very obvious IMO

Lynn testified that Russell was a head torch but he didn’t recall it being turned on, so I doubt it was providing any light..
From this article.

 

[wallyworld]

RH could well have intended turning the music down or even off until he saw the opportunity to confiscate the gun and ammo. He had a history of discussion with deer hunters in other camps in 2020 about storing guns and ammo safely and sharing the trgic death of his male relative in a deer shooting accident, which has been detailed in numerous media articles IMO and I have no doubt upon seeing the gun and ammo in a car with all doors open as detailed by GL, RH then made an instant decision to confiscate these items. RH had already spoken to GL about why he was using the drone and that had included using it at Bucks Camp for about 10 seconds when GL returned, and that he had taken footage of GL whilst he was allegedly hunting and RH had wrongly accused him of hunting illegally near Bucks Camp when GL stated he was merely making his way back to camp. RH started his radio convo at 6pm and it finished at 6.40 with no alarm noted by participants in convo.GL told detectives he was heading back to camp to have dinner.

After confiscating the gun and ammo RH told GL he intended taking the drone footage, gun and ammo to police. At some stage just after confiscating the items RH also let off 2 shots which would have then supported another detail that RH had said to GL during their conversation, that RH had said he would tell police that GL had earlier fired a shot through the campsite. So firing off the two shots RH was gaining evidence to support his future police report.

This detail has been in numerous media reports and is also in the interview video. IMO

You forgot to mention the flying pigs that RH was aiming for when he let off the 2 shots