Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #187

[Cyber sleuth]

There’s too many other options and explanations for me and no real evidence to back up the Ps claims. I think that this crime doesn’t match the prosecutions timeline at all, way too much to do in like 45 minutes and then the walk back to the car for 3:30. I think more than one person is involved (and so did LE). I think RAs charges still include accomplice liability?

I’ll be interested to see what type of evidence comes up at trial. From what I’ve been reading the P’s entire case pivoted from the actual crime into focusing on the “incriminating statements”. I’d prefer they focus on proving the crime actually did occur in the manner they claim via real evidence first.

RSBM/BBM

2:13pm to 3:57pm is much longer than 45 minutes.
2:13pm when girls where abducted my gunpoint caught on video at end of MHB.
3:57pm when a man seen in walking back to his car parked west of Hoosier Harvest.
This is outlined in the PCA. There has not been any evidence brought forward to disprove these stated facts to my knowledge.
https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

 

[TTF14]

By whom?

The defense team. They outlined the inconsistencies in his depositions in the Franks memo.

 

[Salah11]

How do you think he got his hands on a completely different change of clothes for Abby? Clothing that neither one of them were originally wearing? I realize you think it's a lie simply because it's in the Franks memo, but many, many people saw the photos and commented publicly on them. So, IF it's true....what's your feeling about it? Willing to brush it under the rug as unexplained? Just curious how you'd rationalize it.

I will wait until trial because I don’t believe this is unexplained clothing. But of course I could be wrong.

Also with everything going on after they went missing who is to say Libby didn’t start the day off in grey tracksuit bottoms and changed before the walk and Kelsey didn’t notice?

 

[sunshineray]

Let's not forget that the change in time could be purposely changed because RA was now a suspect.

I am unaware of anything stating that RA'S vehicle was leaving the scene rather than arriving.

The rest is basically going to have to be clarified at trial.
And I respectfully disagree that statements were manipulated....
I think that the one that could be easily explained is the " muddy and bloody" one.

If I am not mistaken, the original statement was "<muddy and bloody, he looked like he had been in a fight.'

Well, if a person appears to have been in a fight, would you imagine seeing a person both dirty and bloody? I would. Otherwise, I would not have assumed a fight had taken place.

Of course that's just my opinion.

I very much agree, it loses the context when the "looks like they were in a fight" is left out.

 

[Ravenmoon]

The defense team. They outlined the inconsistencies in his depositions in the Franks memo.

I am not laughing at you. I am laughing at myself because I should have known the answer!

 

[Cyber sleuth]

It's so much easier to just dismiss every word the defense says as lies, lies, lies. I get it.

IMO MOO

Or mistakes.
They do seem to be prone to errors. Just my opinion.

 

[Ravenmoon]

It's so much easier to just dismiss every word the defense says as lies, lies, lies. I get it.

IMO MOO

I don't necessarily think that EVERYTHING they say is a lie.

I do find it hard to accept anything that they say willingly and freely, and I know that I am not alone in that.

I had very high hopes for a solid, fair trial. I had hoped that A&B would prove to be the respected attorneys that they should be.

I would have been much more persuaded to believe their information if only they had conducted themselves in a professional and respectful manner.

When trial comes around, I will try to be open to what they present.

Won't be easy.


JMO

 

[sunshineray]

In all fairness, according to DD, Richard Allen Whiteman was at the trial between the hours of 1:30-3:30. If there’s errors in the name, there could be errors elsewhere. That’s why LE should be video/audio recording everything. During the actual video recorded interview, RA says he left at 1:30 and his car is seen on the HH video driving towards his house at 1:27.

IMO The PCA witness statements are piecemealed to fit TLs decided narrative. The 4 girls was changed to 3, BB says she saw a 20 year old with poofy hair and a mercury comet, SC says she saw a muddy man in a tan jacket. That’s all omitted/changed to force the PCA.

So I do agree if you manipulate the witness statements like TL did, you could work a way to circumstantially put RA there. But if we are looking at direct evidence, JH and TL have stated under oath there is none.

All MOO

Do we know it was DD who put Whiteman down as Allen's last name? I thought that it was data entry into a system where that error occured?

 

[TTF14]

I don't necessarily think that EVERYTHING they say is a lie.

I do find it hard to accept anything that they say willingly and freely, and I know that I am not alone in that.

I had very high hopes for a solid, fair trial. I had hoped that A&B would prove to be the respected attorneys that they should be.

I would have been much more persuaded to believe their information if only they had conducted themselves in a professional and respectful manner.

When trial comes around, I will try to be open to what they present.

Won't be easy.


JMO

When they cite their sources as being the discovery given to them by the State or actual depositions, on court record, I believe them. But again, I know it's a heck of a lot easier to call them liars because certain things start to unravel, like the timeline, and that's uncomfortable because it means an end might not be in sight.

IMO MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Because it wasn't in the original description of what the girls were wearing. Not by the family, LE, or MSM.

Anyone can choose to ignore the fact that Abby was found in clothing that neither Abby or Libby were reported to be missing in. I get it....it makes the facts/timeline of this case not.quite.fit. And that's uncomfortable. I'm ok with it being uncomfortable because I want the right person(s) to be convicted of this crime and there's a lot that just does not make sense, including the clothing one of the victims was found in.

IMO MOO

I think you missed in the threads long ago, it's been many years now, where that was corrected?

 

[Ravenmoon]

When they cite their sources as being the discovery given to them by the State or actual depositions, on court record, I believe them. But again, I know it's a heck of a lot easier to call them liars because certain things start to unravel, like the timeline, and that's uncomfortable because it means an end might not be in sight.

IMO MOO

You lost me!
Please explain how the timeline has become unraveled?
I genuinely want to know.

TIA

 

[StarryStarryNight]

When they cite their sources as being the discovery given to them by the State or actual depositions, on court record, I believe them. But again, I know it's a heck of a lot easier to call them liars because certain things start to unravel, like the timeline, and that's uncomfortable because it means an end might not be in sight.

IMO MOO

The original timeline is solid as a rock.
Ethereal conjecture by the defense has not made a dent in it.

Just my thoughts

 

[TTF14]

The original timeline is solid as a rock.
Ethereal conjecture by the defense has not made a dent in it.

Just my thoughts

For the record, and my opinion only, I thought the original timeline made little sense way before we even knew the name Richard Allen. Or Kegan Kline.

IMO MOO

 

[grannygates]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed for bickering>
We know that there was an FBI task force created of Click, Murphy and Ferency to research suspects possibly related to this case and that Click came forward via a lawyer when he saw RA arrested and read the PCA because he thought his work on the 3rd parties was far more direct and compelling. IIRC the last time Click appeared in court regarding his investigation was March 2024.

 

[Salah11]

It's so much easier to just dismiss every word the defense says as lies, lies, lies. I get it.

IMO MOO

But then the reverse is also true here

let’s not pretend the same doesn’t happen with the prosecution and all their “twisting” of facts.

MOOO

 

[grannygates]

RSBM/BBM

2:13pm to 3:57pm is much longer than 45 minutes.
2:13pm when girls where abducted my gunpoint caught on video at end of MHB.
3:57pm when a man seen in walking back to his car parked west of Hoosier Harvest.
This is outlined in the PCA. There has not been any evidence brought forward to disprove these stated facts to my knowledge.
https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

I was subtracting the walking time to get from bridge to crime scene and then crime scene to CPS building. I’ve watched a handful of videos with people doing the walk themselves so it was an estimate of how much time would be left over once you exclude the walking time (a general estimate because I don’t know really how fast this person actually walked)

 

[Ravenmoon]

We know that there was an FBI task force created of Click, Murphy and Ferency to research suspects possibly related to this case and that Click came forward via a lawyer when he saw RA arrested and read the PCA because he thought his work on the 3rd parties was far more direct and compelling. IIRC the last time Click appeared in court regarding his investigation was March 2024.

Doesn't it seem odd that Click only pushed that narrative much later? 5 or 6 years later?

I 100 percent see no reason for the 4 characters that he so badly wants to be responsible to be protected by LE. If they were behind the murders, they would have been charged.

Jmo, Click is salty because he didn't get to be the hero in this case. He wanted to have the answers and those just didn't hold water.


AJMO

 

[TTF14]

But then the reverse is also true here

let’s not pretend the same doesn’t happen with the prosecution and all their “twisting” of facts.

MOOO

I think the prosecution just goes by what the investigators gave them. No twisting being done by the prosecution. Nick makes some mistakes (i.e. reading stuff he's not supposed to and then filing motions based on it, outing himself), but he's not the one who investigated the case.

IMO MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

Doesn't it seem odd that Click only pushed that narrative much later? 5 or 6 years later?

I 100 percent see no reason for the 4 characters that he so badly wants to be responsible to be protected by LE. If they were behind the murders, they would have been charged.

Jmo, Click is salty because he didn't get to be the hero in this case. He wanted to have the answers and those just didn't hold water.


AJMO

I would question just how much TC had access to regarding the direction of the investigation after he left. I would guess it was basically nothing. So the arrest documentation may have felt to him like it came out of left field, but he wasn't a part of the investigation while that was all being worked, developed, run to ground. And it didn't match the idea he'd formed of the case, so his kneejerk reaction was to reject it.

MOO

 

[Salah11]

I think the prosecution just goes by why the investigators gave them. No twisting being done by the prosecution. Nick makes some mistakes (i.e. reading stuff he's not supposed to and then filing motions based on it, outing himself), but he's not the one who investigated the case.

IMO MOO

He is doing a fantastic job when his hands are tied and unlike the defense can’t do multiple Franks to get around the gag order to try and get social media brigade foaming at the mouth about poor RA.

IMO