Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #187

[sunshineray]

The fact that there is often no connection between killer and victim is one reason these types of cases are so hard to solve ... for all we know, these were not his ideal victims at all, just the ones who happened along. There was a similar case in germany a year or so ago, where two women were killed by a rando in a sexually motivated assault in a tourist area. IMO it's quite a mistake to assume this was all very well organised or carried out.

Do you know, was that case in Germany a first time offense for that rando?

One of the reasons I find Delphi so odd is taking two girls your first time out. I know the taking of two at the same time happens, but not really that often. RA seems to have waited a long time to act out his murderous nature. Maybe there were other instances idk?

 

[sunshineray]

I go back and forth on if he knew they would be there that day.

From the little we know the timing is suspicious as it doesn’t sound like he was waiting around for hours looking for possible victims.

But I also feel like if he secretly grooming one of those girls then there is simply no way in hell he would left that phone behind as it’s such a rookie mistake.

Moo

If the account they were messaging on (hypothetically) was created by another actor and the phone RA was using to do that with was a burner, leaving her phone (not realizing he was filmed) would be the right decision I suppose?

I think Libby's phone being under her body, when it was ringing, it was probably so muffled RA probably couldn't have located it anyway. It was too faint to pinpoint, his heart was probably loud in his ears as his body was going through whatever kinds of physical and mental stress the situation brought on? Just some thoughts...and it pains to even consider HIS stresses.

 

[sunshineray]

The one thing I’m intrigued about is he obviously knew he had been seen by multiple witnesses and yet he still continued with his plan that day.

Thats so brazen to go ahead when he knew he had been spotted and for all he knew had been recognized from working at CVS.

Moo

It is! It's all so brazen! Where does that come from!? You're 50 years old, they're 13 &14. Ok you take a gun to intimidate but not to kill with. You abduct and then march two kids quite a distance, even crossing a creek...it's the middle of Feburary, no leaves on the trees for cover. You pick a spot that's private property, not state or federal land...maybe you know this, maybe not?
Like you mentioned, you continue after being seen by the group but he chose to walk that way to the bridge and not skulk through the woods, why? Then he's seen again on the bridge and still he waits there...brazen.

Maybe it wasn't his first time doing something so sinister? Just some thoughts

 

[Scruffydog2]

Do you know, was that case in Germany a first time offense for that rando?

One of the reasons I find Delphi so odd is taking two girls your first time out. I know the taking of two at the same time happens, but not really that often. RA seems to have waited a long time to act out his murderous nature. Maybe there were other instances idk?

I don't think it's that odd-unexpected by him, but not odd. I think KK arranged to meet Abby there, but didn't know that Libby would be with her. He set them up for RA. and RA went for it-like he planned, but killed both, instead of solely Abby.

 

[Spartygirl]

It is! It's all so brazen! Where does that come from!? You're 50 years old, they're 13 &14. Ok you take a gun to intimidate but not to kill with. You abduct and then march two kids quite a distance, even crossing a creek...it's the middle of Feburary, no leaves on the trees for cover. You pick a spot that's private property, not state or federal land...maybe you know this, maybe not?
Like you mentioned, you continue after being seen by the group but he chose to walk that way to the bridge and not skulk through the woods, why? Then he's seen again on the bridge and still he waits there...brazen.

Maybe it wasn't his first time doing something so sinister? Just some thoughts

He was on a mission that day !!!

 

[al66pine]

Technology & "Sheer Dumb Luck"

Cameras and technology are everywhere so even if you don’t think you are being seen you are.

Case in point. Did anyone follow the Douglas Garland Case in Alberta? Douglas Garland murdered Grandparents and a young grandchild. He took them to his farm. He was outed quite quickly and evidence was found that incriminated him.

Fast forward to his trial and evidence was entered of pictures of all 3 dead, lying on the grass at the farm. A plane was flying overhead taking surveying pictures of the area days before LE descended on the farm. The surveying company didn’t review the images immediately but when they did WHOA!

Yup. No murder is perfect, especially today.

MOO

@Tealgrove Thanks for your post re Douglas Garland case* which I was not familiar w., so I read a couple articles.

An excellent example of a fluke of timing & technology helping nail a criminal prosecution.

Altho wiki* does not note that the plane flyover & photography of the bodies was NOT related to LE's search for the 3 victims, the vice.com article** goes into some detail on this & other evd. collected at farm. From vice:

"How the Man Who Committed One of Canada’s Most Gruesome Murders Was Caught"
Photo was taken from 5000 ft.
"The bodies were photographed entirely by ACCIDENT on July 1, 2014, and became an important piece of evidence" in the trial. (my CAPS).
"....The photo, shot by an AUTOMATIC camera mounted on a plane owned by a digital mapping company, shows the bodies...."
The article described the pix as resulting from "sheer dumb luck."
^^^Wow.^^^

Back to Abby & Libby. If only something like that would surface for them all these yrs later.
Sigh.
________________________
* Murders of Nathan O'Brien, Kathryn Liknes and Alvin Liknes - Wikipedia.
**

How the Man Who Committed One of Canada’s Most Gruesome Murders Was Caught

How and why Douglas Garland murdered and tortured a former business partner, his wife and their five-year-old grandson.

web.archive.org

 

[somequestions]

I do not know if Richard Allen is guilty or not, but I do not think this was a planned crime.

In the PCA, Richard Allen stated that as he was walking towards the Monon High Bridge he passed the Mears Farm entrance(where Kelsi dropped the girls off at). He noticed there were vehicles parked there but could not remember any details about those vehicles.

The main point is that Richard Allen knew you could park at the Mears Farm trailhead entrance. Back in 2017 you could park there. If Richard Allen is the killer, why did he choose to park farther away?

 

[MiniMoo]

I do not know if Richard Allen is guilty or not, but I do not think this was a planned crime.

In the PCA, Richard Allen stated that as he was walking towards the Monon High Bridge he passed the Mears Farm entrance(where Kelsi dropped the girls off at). He noticed there were vehicles parked there but could not remember any details about those vehicles.

The main point is that Richard Allen knew you could park at the Mears Farm trailhead entrance. Back in 2017 you could park there. If Richard Allen is the killer, why did he choose to park farther away?

It could have been a crime of opportunity as well as planned.

Whoever killed the girls was probably waiting for an opportunistic moment - kind of like a spider patiently waiting for the strands of its web to vibrate once an unsuspecting insect is caught in its trap.

 

[MiniMoo]

He was on a mission that day !!!

If you take a look at the FINAL DRAFT and the crime scene description as well as the information on Abby and Libby it indicates that whoever committed this heinous crime may have been someone that has done it before due to the lack of DNA evidence left behind and being so meticulous about it.

Seasoned killers will spend time with their victims as well as stage or pose them and the crime scene.

Either that or it is someone that researched different types of murders thoroughly as well as how to clean up a crime scene so as to avoid capture.


MOO
(Now that I know what MOO means).

 

[sunshineray]

He may not have planned to murder.

Well unless we find out differently at trial, RA didn't have a full face mask. He certainly didn't crossing the bridge as you can see facial features. So if he approached the girls unmasked he likely stayed unmasked throughout the abduction, assault and killing. Being he was local and working in a very high-trafficked store in the community (lots of teenage products there also), I would assume once he abducted them he couldn't just go on with his life if he let them live. Killing them would probably have been the only way to never run into them again...besides moving away quickly which could raise much suspicion. I think he had it in mind to kill that day when he arrived at the trails. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Does anyone remember this "odd" news story that popped into the public eye for a short period of time and then slowly crept away with little notice?

It's not been lost on me, but is a total enigma.

"In recent months, their investigation has even led them to Indiana to look into a possible connection to the highly publicized Delphi double murders."

/////////////////

The information pointed Boone County investigators toward a specific person who had a specific item they were interested in.

“I’m not going to tell you about what that item was,” Cox said. “We’ve recently been in the northern part of Indiana, investigating this guy, following him around, looking for things, collecting all of the information and evidence that we would need to at least vet him as best we could with our case. "

Investigators looking into possible link between Stephenson murders and Delphi case

I remember this.
They say towards the beginning "pepetrators" and "killers", so they thought more than one person was responsible?

Then...

"In November 2022, a tip led them to Indiana."

So right when RA was getting his reprsentation assigned.

“We had received some information from an individual regarding the Delphi murders in Indiana, and they had said, ‘For all of these reasons, we believe it may be the same person that was involved in the Stephenson case,’” Cox said"

The only thing, with what we've heard about the Delphi crime scene, that has anything in common with the Stephenson scene is the victims were posed. Nothing else I've read about the Stevenson murders is simular. They were old, in their homes, furniture and things were moved around/rearranged, they were bludgeoned. Maybe their clothes were switch but even that, Libby was wearing none when found.

Maybe there were sticks/branches brought into the house? I wonder who tipped them off? Had to be someone who knew details of the Stevenson scene, which I think LE has also protected very well...so maybe it was someone in LE? Ohmygosh, Click?

Investigators looking into possible link between Stephenson murders and Delphi case

Boone County investigators were recently in northern Indiana looking into the tip.

www.fox19.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

The one thing I’m intrigued about is he obviously knew he had been seen by multiple witnesses and yet he still continued with his plan that day.

Thats so brazen to go ahead when he knew he had been spotted and for all he knew had been recognized from working at CVS.

Moo

I bet RA thought all of his clothing and face covering kept him concealed enough. Plus he was walking 'with purpose' head down, didn't even answer the one girl that spoke to him. We know he definitely saw those girls, he admitted it in the 2017 interview with Dulin, but I wonder if he saw BB who noticed him on the 1st platform and SC who saw him walking back to his car?

Brazen but determined to get to the MHB before Abby & Libby IMO.

Was he sitting on the 1st platform 'watching the fish' waiting on Abby & Libby to start their cross over MHB and then came up behind them? That could explain why Libby was on high alert, they had already seen and passed him at the beginning of the crossing and then here he comes.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I do not know if Richard Allen is guilty or not, but I do not think this was a planned crime.

In the PCA, Richard Allen stated that as he was walking towards the Monon High Bridge he passed the Mears Farm entrance(where Kelsi dropped the girls off at). He noticed there were vehicles parked there but could not remember any details about those vehicles.

The main point is that Richard Allen knew you could park at the Mears Farm trailhead entrance. Back in 2017 you could park there. If Richard Allen is the killer, why did he choose to park farther away?

RA parked in that lot to hide his car IMO. Backed it in far away from other cars, he wouldn't want to be seen in right at Mears Head entrance, too much opportunity for others to see it/him.

JMO

 

[FromGermany1]

Also, on the Stephenson case….from WRTV

To me it always sounded like the KY investigators, at some point, received a random tip that said Delphi might be connected. They investigated and found nothing. Then they decided to mention in this article the Delphi tip just to get more attention for their case. I’m not a fan of that tactic.

View attachment 516824

I think, KY was the reason as to why police got a tip. After all, Libby's mum is living there and Libby visited every now and then. - I don't want to express, that Libby's mum had anything to do with both cases!

 

[MiniMoo]

The Illusive Bullet

Well, more like a bullet that has no photos or video evidence following its discovery in the ground between Abby and Libby according to that Final Draft.

Seems like the perpetrator definitely had a gun on him and must have fired it for some reason.

 

[Gunther Toody]

My opinion is that Richard Allen did not commit this crime, although he will probably get convicted of it. People do not go from living a seemingly normal life to torturer, murderer of children, then back to a normal life.

To do so, would take the mindset of a psychopath, which Richard Allen does not appear to be.

There were no signs that I am aware of regarding a change in his demeanor after the crime that would indicate psychopathic behavior. The only alleged link to him was the bullet as far as I can tell. But, it was an unfired bullet. How do ballistics play a role in that identification?

And, how did a bullet allegedly from his gun get there? He would have had to rack the gun, eject the bullet, and not know if was on the ground. Then, he would have had to bury it between the bodies? Again, that makes no sense and the killer would have to know the bullet would lead back to him

The location of the crime as well as the steps taken to carry it out make no sense. If psychopathic murder was the intent, why go through all of the steps, such as crossing the river, positioning branches over the bodies, undressing, and then redressing at least one of the bodies, all with the risk of being caught in a relatively open area?

And there was no blood or DNA found on Allen's clothing, was there?

No, I don't think he did this, but like other high-profile crimes, he will get convicted because due to public pressure plus the fact that no juror wants to be known as the juror who helped free a potential child killer, he will go down.

Jurors that convict him will likely have the mindset that if he is truly innocent it will come out on appeal, and they will have a clean conscience.

 

[Megnut]

I do not know if Richard Allen is guilty or not, but I do not think this was a planned crime.

In the PCA, Richard Allen stated that as he was walking towards the Monon High Bridge he passed the Mears Farm entrance(where Kelsi dropped the girls off at). He noticed there were vehicles parked there but could not remember any details about those vehicles.

The main point is that Richard Allen knew you could park at the Mears Farm trailhead entrance. Back in 2017 you could park there. If Richard Allen is the killer, why did he choose to park farther away?

RBBM

Or.... we could ask it the other way -- if he wasn't the killer, why didn't he park closer, more convenient lot?

Is there a reasonable explanation for parking where he did?

If it was a counter-measure to be seen less and obscure his vehicle, just exactly what was he planning to do?

It seems too deliberate to ignore.

JMO

 

[susane7]

The fact that there is often no connection between killer and victim is one reason these types of cases are so hard to solve ... for all we know, these were not his ideal victims at all, just the ones who happened along. There was a similar case in germany a year or so ago, where two women were killed by a rando in a sexually motivated assault in a tourist area. IMO it's quite a mistake to assume this was all very well organised or carried out.

Yes, I think the crime was pre-planned and fantasized but the victims were random. Killing on trails are usually random. There are many examples of that (a recent case, Rachel Morin, I think). The different thing in this case is the victims took a video of the kidnapper/killer.

The police at the beggining said the girls are talking about "girl stuff" and nothing indicated they were meeting someone. The police could be lying but I think they told the truth because if there were indication about that, the crime would be solved much sooner (ok, in reality, taking into account what RA said, the crime should have been solved sooner but they made mistakes with that tip).

When the police asked in 2021 for people who had contacted with AS profile I remember thinking "oh my god they are totally lost, reached a dead end, have no ideia who BG is and have to go back to the beginning". I was afraid they would put the blame on KG or TK who didn't remotely resemble BG, in my opinion. Fortunately, probably that return to the beginning led to the finding of the tip of RA and the finding of the real killer.

 

[MiniMoo]

CAMERAS:
CCTV/TRAFFIC/DASHBOARDS/ANY...

I am a firm believer that cameras never lie when it comes to original footage or photos so is there anything known about any video footage found or photos captured that day to do with the accused or the girls.

Is there absolutely nothing.

If there were cars parked in the area where the older sister dropped them off - did any of those cars have dashboard cameras that may have captured something even if it may have seemed minor or irrelevant.

Traffic light cameras? Home security? Anything?

Libby was intelligent enough to use her mobile phone to film what she did, but it obviously wasn't enough.

I find it really strange that only Libby's phone had images of the suspect and not a traffic camera or anything else.

The problem with key witnesses is that they may not always pay attention to certain details whether the time of day, what colour of clothing was worn or the type, what colour hair or eyes, scars or no scars - if interviewed years down the track memories tend to fade.

 

[m00c0w]

My opinion is that Richard Allen did not commit this crime, although he will probably get convicted of it. People do not go from living a seemingly normal life to torturer, murderer of children, then back to a normal life.

To do so, would take the mindset of a psychopath, which Richard Allen does not appear to be.

There were no signs that I am aware of regarding a change in his demeanor after the crime that would indicate psychopathic behavior. The only alleged link to him was the bullet as far as I can tell. But, it was an unfired bullet. How do ballistics play a role in that identification?

And, how did a bullet allegedly from his gun get there? He would have had to rack the gun, eject the bullet, and not know if was on the ground. Then, he would have had to bury it between the bodies? Again, that makes no sense and the killer would have to know the bullet would lead back to him

The location of the crime as well as the steps taken to carry it out make no sense. If psychopathic murder was the intent, why go through all of the steps, such as crossing the river, positioning branches over the bodies, undressing, and then redressing at least one of the bodies, all with the risk of being caught in a relatively open area?

And there was no blood or DNA found on Allen's clothing, was there?

No, I don't think he did this, but like other high-profile crimes, he will get convicted because due to public pressure plus the fact that no juror wants to be known as the juror who helped free a potential child killer, he will go down.

Jurors that convict him will likely have the mindset that if he is truly innocent it will come out on appeal, and they will have a clean conscience.

You state that the only alleged link to him was the bullet, but he admitted to being in the park, at the same area as the girls, and even saw the girls. He matches the description of the suspected killer, according to both witness statements and the video evidence. And then, yes, a bullet forensically linked to his firearm was located at the crime scene between the girls. And those are just the facts to establish probable cause.

He also confessed to the crime over recorded jail phones.

I’m a little bit confused, as well, by your assertion that only a psychopath would not change behaviors after such a heinous crime (not even going to ask how you know he didn’t), but also that you saw no changes in behavior that would make you think he’s a psychopath. Those two things seem heavily contradictory?

JMO