Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #187

[girlhasnoname]

The Bridge Guy is likely the last person to have had contact with Libby and Abby or to have seen them both alive and is therefore a strong candidate as their killer.

However, is R.A. >>> B.G. - that is what needs to be confirmed and established beyond a reasonable doubt as well as physical evidence to support the murder allegations.

The police have got the suspect they feel is responsible, but at the end of the day it all comes down to solid or convincing circumstantial evidence and reliable witnesses, if any.

Facts only - no hearsay.

MOO

Yes, and that will ultimately work in the State's favor rather than the Defense's cast of characters or paid for gimmie money experts.

JMO

 

[Jade]

My opinion is that Richard Allen did not commit this crime, although he will probably get convicted of it. People do not go from living a seemingly normal life to torturer, murderer of children, then back to a normal life.

To do so, would take the mindset of a psychopath, which Richard Allen does not appear to be.

There were no signs that I am aware of regarding a change in his demeanor after the crime that would indicate psychopathic behavior. The only alleged link to him was the bullet as far as I can tell. But, it was an unfired bullet. How do ballistics play a role in that identification?

And, how did a bullet allegedly from his gun get there? He would have had to rack the gun, eject the bullet, and not know if was on the ground. Then, he would have had to bury it between the bodies? Again, that makes no sense and the killer would have to know the bullet would lead back to him

The location of the crime as well as the steps taken to carry it out make no sense. If psychopathic murder was the intent, why go through all of the steps, such as crossing the river, positioning branches over the bodies, undressing, and then redressing at least one of the bodies, all with the risk of being caught in a relatively open area?

And there was no blood or DNA found on Allen's clothing, was there?

No, I don't think he did this, but like other high-profile crimes, he will get convicted because due to public pressure plus the fact that no juror wants to be known as the juror who helped free a potential child killer, he will go down.

Jurors that convict him will likely have the mindset that if he is truly innocent it will come out on appeal, and they will have a clean conscience.

Read back on the threads to see posts by gun owners familiar with Richard Allen's gun about the bullet and how RA could have scared the girls by chambering the bullet. He could have picked it up then dropped it in his exertions or just been preoccupied. The gun folks explain it better than I.

I’m curious how you know he has never committed a crime before?

Or that he isn’t on the Dark Triad spectrum? I believe that hiding their true characteristics is a trait.

RA had the break to act on his rare opportunity as his attentive wife was extremely occupied out of town with a family tragedy, imo.

I believe RA was prepared to take more than one girl out of the necessity since at the girl’s age it’s more usual for them to be in two or more in such a setting.

The setting of the pervasion and murders is secluded.

RA needed that park setting where his prey would be innocently present and the bridge both to trap the girls and to march them off of down the hill out of sight to the seclusion quickly.

Sexual perversion was the motivation, imo, with the various aspects a part of the perversion.

Perversions not understandable to normal humans that would never kidnap, kill and play with dead little girls. Read the WS Crimes against Children thread; none of the child kidnapping and sexual assaults make sense.

Richard Allen’s job would require him to be meticulous and detailed oriented with an ability to plan and anticipate outcomes. No surprise a careful person could do better at not leaving evidence than an unorganized person. RA fits the bill for that aspect of the crime, imo.

Interesting you make the comparison to Dennis Rader as there are similarities to Richard Allen, imo, multiple victims at a time, excessive time spent toying with the victims as he acts out his elaborate fantasies, underwear weirdness, somewhat normal life although BTK was more socially adept and involved than RA, attention to detail/planning, quiet.

Huge ego on both Richard Allen and Dennis Rader, imo, leading them to feel entitled to their their audacious acts.

[…]
At his trial, Rader recounted how he led a double life: Before the public, he was a church congregation president and Boy Scout leader, while behind the curtain he wrote down violent rape fantasies, had “hit kits” — bags with rubber gloves, rope, tape, handcuffs and bandannas — and taunted police by describing his killings before he was caught.
[…]
BTK serial killer named as 'prime suspect' in at least 2 unsolved cases

Are you familiar with the unsolved Evansville case of Elizabeth and Lyric?

[…] investigators are still searching for who abducted and killed the Iowa cousins […]
Case of murdered Evansdale cousins still unsolved 11 years after girls' bodies were found

Interesting take you have on the potential jury members. Are you perhaps a community member making judgement on peers who would act dishonesty in a court of law in a double murder of minors and tasked with the responsibility of deciding a man’s life who would then capriciously like oh well next time he will get off?
I had imagined the community more honorable and moral.

all imo

 

[Megnut]

If RA isn’t Bridge Guy that means he become blind out on that bridge because he didn’t see Libby and Abby and he missed BG as well.

Thats quite strange considering he would of literally had to trip over all 3 of those people.

Moo

One helluva trip, knocked his bullet into the other guy's pocket.

And Libby, not only did she video record BG1, she took the time to photoshop BG2 out of every frame.

LE has the longer video, enhanced in whatever capacity possible.

IMO Libby recorded BG as he approached and while he spoke.

BG initiated the abduction sequence with GDTH.

If there were 75 sweatered ninjas in the trees below and every single one of them murdered Abby and Libby, BG is equally guilty of murder, for effecting the abduction during the commission of which the girls were murdered.

RA places himself on the bridge. He timestamps it with having passed the group of juveniles after his vehicle was captured en route to where he admitted to parking. His position on the bridge (and the trajectory to have encountered Abby and Libby just prior to or just onto the bridge) is further timestamped by BB's corroboration -- she saw him on the same platform he admitted to have stood on, just before she turned around to leave, shortly before encountering Abby and Libby on the path. BB's account is corroborated by CCTV of her arrival/departure, her seeing Abby and Libby (and BG) and NOT seeing the juveniles, who must have left just prior to her arrival.

The only way to get RA off that bridge is for him to fall in.

I wish he had.

JMO

 

[somequestions]

RA parked in that lot to hide his car IMO. Backed it in far away from other cars, he wouldn't want to be seen in right at Mears Head entrance, too much opportunity for others to see it/him.

JMO

I do not agree. If he went there and thought he might commit murder, I think he would have parked closer to have an easier and quicker getaway. This would indicate at least a potential plan if the right opportunity arose. This is if you think parking at the old CPS building is better.

For someone who is actually from Delphi, I think the question that would need to be asked is, would your vehicle be more or less recognizable parking at the old CPS building versus parking at the Mears Farm entrance? From the videos I have seen, I think parking at Mears Farm trailhead would not only be closer but less conspicuous as it is indeed a place where people park to use the trail.

Maybe Richard Allen did not believe that parking at Mears was less conspicuous, but the extra walk certainly did not seem worth it in my opinion.

 

[legalmomma]

Praecipe for determination whether a ruling has been delayed beyond the time limitations filed:

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

07/11/2024	Praecipe for Withdrawal of Submission Praecipe for Determination Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 07/11/2024
07/11/2024	Administrative Event Praecipe and CCS e-mailed to Justin Forkner, Chief Administrative Officer, Indiana Supreme Court Office of Judicial Administration.
07/30/2024	Miscellaneous Motions Session: 07/30/2024 10:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 07/31/2024 10:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 08/01/2024 10:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Comment: SJ Gull

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[Gunther Toody]

In the video of BG he instructs the girls, "down the hill". How could that not make him a suspect?

I don't understand what you are talking about. There is no known recording specifically attributed to Bridge Guy. There is no video showing him with the girls. You are simply following the media narrative.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I do not agree. If he went there and thought he might commit murder, I think he would have parked closer to have an easier and quicker getaway. This would indicate at least a potential plan if the right opportunity arose. This is if you think parking at the old CPS building is better.

For someone who is actually from Delphi, I think the question that would need to be asked is, would your vehicle be more or less recognizable parking at the old CPS building versus parking at the Mears Farm entrance? From the videos I have seen, I think parking at Mears Farm trailhead would not only be closer but less conspicuous as it is indeed a place where people park to use the trail.

Maybe Richard Allen did not believe that parking at Mears was less conspicuous, but the extra walk certainly did not seem worth it in my opinion.

Fair enough, but maybe RA walking bloody and muddy like he'd gotten into a fight would have been much more noticeable at the MF entrance vs Old County Road N300.

Is the MF entrance closer from where the girls were found?

MOO

 

[Megnut]

I do not agree. If he went there and thought he might commit murder, I think he would have parked closer to have an easier and quicker getaway. This would indicate at least a potential plan if the right opportunity arose. This is if you think parking at the old CPS building is better.

For someone who is actually from Delphi, I think the question that would need to be asked is, would your vehicle be more or less recognizable parking at the old CPS building versus parking at the Mears Farm entrance? From the videos I have seen, I think parking at Mears Farm trailhead would not only be closer but less conspicuous as it is indeed a place where people park to use the trail.

Maybe Richard Allen did not believe that parking at Mears was less conspicuous, but the extra walk certainly did not seem worth it in my opinion.

Perhaps RA thought far enough ahead to know that, after what he was planning, no way did he want to return by way of the public path to the popular parking lot.

IMO he parked where he could have a clean getaway.

Which suggests premeditation/pre-planning.

Consistent with the description that he seemed to be on a mission.

Hard to find timing-nearly-to-the-minute to be only coincidental.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

The Illusive Bullet

Well, more like a bullet that has no photos or video evidence following its discovery in the ground between Abby and Libby according to that Final Draft.

Seems like the perpetrator definitely had a gun on him and must have fired it for some reason.

The bullet wasn't fired, it was only ejected. If the audio from the bridge does contain the sound of a gun being cocked, or with the recovered bullet's particular clip gun, a bullet was chambered, to intimidate his victims to obey his order, down the hill. At the murders crime scene, another clambering was done to intimidate the victims, probably to strip or to be quiet, expelling the round previously chambered on the bridge. It was obviously overlooked on the ground having been stepped on by someone, before RA left the area. AJMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

I don't understand what you are talking about. There is no known recording specifically attributed to Bridge Guy. There is no video showing him with the girls. You are simply following the media narrative.

Let’s review ​

The first photo — Feb. 2017​

On Feb. 13, 2017, Abby Williams and Libby German didn't meet a family member after hiking on the Monon High Bridge trail.

The girls were reported missing but their bodies were found the following day a half-mile from the abandoned railroad trestle bridge just outside Delphi.

On Feb. 15, 2017, police released this photo of a man on the bridge. Days later, they labeled him a suspect. More than two years later, we learned the image came from a video taken on Libby's phone (see below).

Just over a week after the girls' deaths on Feb. 22, 2017, police said Libby recorded the suspect on video with her cellphone. At the time, Indiana State Police Sgt. Tony Slocum praised the teen's actions.

“This young lady is a hero, there is no doubt. To have enough presence of mind to activate that video system on her cellphone, to record what we believe is criminal behavior that's about to occur," Slocum said.

Audio from the video was released at that time, and featured the voice of a man saying "Down the hill."

Review all of the evidence in the Delphi murders case that's been publicly released

More than two years after the killing of two Delphi teens, Indiana State Police made additional pieces of evidence public during a 2019 case update.

www.jconline.com

 

[Megnut]

I don't understand what you are talking about. There is no known recording specifically attributed to Bridge Guy. There is no video showing him with the girls. You are simply following the media narrative.

I'm confused. There absolutely IS such a video.

On Libby's phone, recorded by Libby which puts her definitively in the vicinity of BG as he approaches her camera.

In the other 45 seconds, it's entirely possible that both girls are fully or partially captured within frames.

LE has the audio and video and has seen where BG was moving from and toward and at what point he spoke.

Who was he talking to when he said GDTH and who was filming him with Libby's phone if not Abby and Libby?

That video IS their witness.

JMO

 

[legalmomma]

Delphi murder suspect's attorneys say judge hasn't responded to motions, requests Supreme Court appoint new judge

Richard Allen's attorneys claim judge Frances Gull hasn't ruled on multiple of their motions within the period specified under Indiana trial rules.

www.wthr.com

Richard Allen's attorneys claim judge Frances Gull hasn't ruled on multiple of their motions within the period specified under Indiana trial rules.
...
In the motion, the defense team says Indiana trial rules state that if the court doesn't set a hearing or rule on a motion within 30 days, the submission may be withdrawn from the judge and transferred to the state Supreme Court for the appointment of a special judge.

 

[MiniMoo]

The bullet wasn't fired, it was only ejected. If the audio from the bridge does contain the sound of a gun being cocked, or with the recovered bullet's particular clip gun, a bullet was chambered, to intimidate his victims to obey his order, down the hill. At the murders crime scene, another clambering was done to intimidate the victims, probably to strip or to be quiet, expelling the round previously chambered on the bridge. It was obviously overlooked on the ground having been stepped on by someone, before RA left the area. AJMO

When I read it I thought with the bullet being in the ground that the gun had been fired.

This was made clear by girlhasnoname a bit later on.

 

[New Penny]

Well unless we find out differently at trial, RA didn't have a full face mask. He certainly didn't crossing the bridge as you can see facial features. So if he approached the girls unmasked he likely stayed unmasked throughout the abduction, assault and killing. Being he was local and working in a very high-trafficked store in the community (lots of teenage products there also), I would assume once he abducted them he couldn't just go on with his life if he let them live. Killing them would probably have been the only way to never run into them again...besides moving away quickly which could raise much suspicion. I think he had it in mind to kill that day when he arrived at the trails. JMO

I wonder if one of the girls blurted out “you’re the guy from CVS!” and then the panic set in. MOO

 

[WildHuncher]

If RA isn’t Bridge Guy that means he become blind out on that bridge because he didn’t see Libby and Abby and he missed BG as well.

Thats quite strange considering he would of literally had to trip over all 3 of those people.

Moo

And nobody saw two males of similar age, build, and dress moving along the trail within what must have been scant minutes of each other. If RA didn’t do it because RA isn’t BG, BG has to bypass RA at presumably the fish-watching north end of the bridge and take over the “lone male suspect” part of the narrative.

Where did he come from? Where did RA go? Raises more questions than Cotton-Eyed Joe.

 

[Spartygirl]

Fair enough, but maybe RA walking bloody and muddy like he'd gotten into a fight would have been much more noticeable at the MF entrance vs Old County Road N300.

Is the MF entrance closer from where the girls were found?

MOO

Yes.. Mears lot closer but IIRC, there were other cars there when KG dropped girls off so he would have more chance of being seen by more people there.
Plus the fact that the lot is surrounded by homes, farms, etc
where as the old CPS building stands alone, quick walk to Freedom Bridge, entrance to trails, only ran into the 4 girls that way vs could have been seen by many others, plus home owners if parked at Mears Lot

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes.. Mears lot closer but IIRC, there were other cars there when KG dropped girls off so he would have more chance of being seen by more people there.
Plus the fact that the lot is surrounded by homes, farms, etc
where as the old CPS building stands alone, quick walk to Freedom Bridge, entrance to trails, only ran into the 4 girls that way vs could have been seen by many others, plus home owners if parked at Mears Lot

Thank you SG, I believe RA wanted to be as inconspicuous as possible especially after committing the murders.

 

[Jade]

Being in the park does not make him a criminal or a suspect.
The fact that he admitted seeing the girls, certainly plays into his likely innocence. True criminals want to distance themselves from every aspect of the crime.

There were no witnesses to the killing so how does he match the description of the suspected killer? What did witnesses claim to see other than a man who matched the description in the one brief video released by law enforcement?
"Bridge Guy" was never proven to be the killer.

The bullet had extraction marks, that were similar to that which would have been created when racked from his weapon. However, any manufacturer with good quality control would create weapons with similar patterns in each weapon produced. I wonder if they tested any other weapons from that particular lot. I don't see that as being "forensically linked."

As for his confession...people confess to all manor of crimes. That does not make him the killer.

Statistically, it is very rare for a killer, especially in a case such as this, to step out of character, commit a heinous double murder, and then step back into a character of normalcy.

The only two that I can think of:
Dennis Rader (BTK killer) Lived a double life, appearing as a normal family man and community member while committing a series of murders.

Chris Watts: Seemingly led a normal life before murdering his wife and daughters.

There were no other similar crimes near Delphi that I am aware of, so this appears a singular case.

Can you supply links to your statistics that its very rare for a killer to kill and then act normal?

WS has a many cases where killers carry on with their lives as if normal.

Confessions alone are not going to convict anyone of a double murder.
Confessions with corroborating evidence will convict a criminal, imo.

Richard Allen was distancing himself from the crime by pre-splaining his presence at Monon High Bridge.
Since RA worked at CVS right down the road and was seen by others he calculatedly told of being at the park.


[...]
For the most part, criminals plan every move while premeditating crimes. They calculate what will transpire from the moment they conceive of a crime until after they make their getaway. They know the occupational hazards of crime—getting caught, convicted, confined, injured or killed in a high risk crime.

By the time a criminal is prepared to enact the crime, he is certain he will succeed and has eliminated these deterrents from consideration. There is a “superoptimism” in which he regards the crime as a fait accompli.
[...]

Do Criminals Desire to Get Caught?

In 1915, Freud wrote about an unconscious desire to get caught and punished. But he did not treat criminals.

www.psychologytoday.com

[…]
There’s generally two types of individuals who commit sexual murder. Some do it in a very planned fashion where they try to elude law enforcement, they’re forensically aware, and they leave crime scenes that are generally without a lot of physical evidence. If you look at it visually, you’ll see them as very organized. The murder weapon is taken with them, if it’s a ligature strangulation, for example. The room itself is not all broken up with furniture. There’s no blood of the offender on the victim. And so that’s one type of offender, and he usually does it in a series which is thought out.

Now there’s another group that acts out more spontaneously Now why? It’s because the underlying personality disturbance of that group is much more disturbed. If you look at people that kill one or two serial sexual murders and then they’re caught, these are people that have borderline personality, schizophrenia, schizotypal personality, that’s a severe personality disorder, for example. What’s the problem? The problem is that type of disorder, psychopathology, mental disorder does not allow the person to inhibit their impulses. So when they see, for example, a victim that crosses their path, they strike out, and if you strike out impulsively, there may be witnesses around, you'll leave forensic evidence around—you didn’t plan on killing anybody and you’re apprehended quickly.

The other type has more what’s often called psychopathic traits, narcissistic traits, and whatever personality they have, it doesn’t disable them from planning. You could be narcissistic, you could be psychopathic, but you can still plan and inhibit your impulses.
[…]
But what is generally meant by psychopath is somebody who outwardly appears normal.
[...]
Mills: Well, I mentioned Rex Heuermann in my intro. He was married. I mean, is that unusual for a serial sexual killer to actually have a marital relationship?

Schlesinger: No, that’s not uncommon. That’s not uncommon for the serial sexual murderer who plans his crimes because he has the type of personality that’s generally speaking, not off-putting. They look normal. They have a mask of normality. They can speak. They can engage, and so on. The other type of sexual murder who’s much more disturbed very often is not married.
[…]
Understanding the mind of a serial killer


imo

 

[Megnut]

Weird place to park, weird way to park.

It's almost like he knew to park for a clean getaway, and he knew it before anyone was murdered that day.

His phone will sink him IMO.

If he had it with him.

If he didn't.

Criminals are frequently smart enough to leave their phones at home but always dumb enough to leave that damning black out period.

When did RA access his phone that day? And resume usage?

If the Defense could place RA at MHB between noon and 1:30 and not a minute after,, they'd be blasting the court with that data.... including where he and his phone went afterwards. THAT would be the fixings for an ACTUAL alibi.

So didn't happen, they don't have it.

But one way or another, RA's phone was transmitting or not transmitting all day.

His morning might have shown typical patterns. Or atypical. A separate black out period, increased activity, decreased activity, no activity...

We haven't seen ANY of the returns/results from search warrants, particularly from the home and vehicle, but there's a pile of electronics which may be high yield items, sophisticated DNA testing...

If this gets to trial IN MY LIFETIME, IMO the State's opening statement will be shocking for its entirety.

JMO