Found Deceased WY - Gabby Petito, Grand Teton National Park #88

[ch_13]

Here's a link to the FBI data dump:

https://vault.fbi.gov/brian-laundrie/brian-laundrie-part-01/view

Note that it's labeled "Brian Laundrie Part 01". More to come?

 

[Warwick7]

Like I said in my post. I can't fault the Laundries for not taking action for something they didn't now about. JMO.

It is a matter of opinion but personally I don't see the situations as the same (other than both situations involving parents whose son committed a violent crime.)

Ethan Crumbley was 15 when he shot students at his school. Brian was a few months away from turning 24 when he killed GP.

Despite the sound bites that may have come from prosecutors in the elder Crumbleys' cases, it was NOT simply a matter of the parents ignoring Ethan's mental health. Four days before the shooting, at Ethan's request Crumbley's father bought the gun his son later used to shoot 4 people. It was supposedly a Christmas present for Ethan. After buying the gun, the father failed to secure it. The mother took Ethan to a shooting range to practice shooting. Although the Laundrie family owned firearms as many American families do, obviously GP wasn't shot much less shot by a gun the parents bought that week for BL.

Crumbley's parents ignored explicit recommendations from Ethan's school counselor to get him help and to keep him out of school on the day of the shooting (although it's unclear if the school should have acted sooner. Given the earlier internal school emails, I think the school was also at fault.) We have no evidence to suggest Brian's parents ever received any warnings from counselors when he was in high school. (So far as I can tell, we don't have writings from BL when he was 14, 15, 16 either.) We also have no evidence to show whether BL ever received any sort of mental health help. He may have as he said at the Moab stop he didn't like to take medication when discussing his anxiety. But even if the parents had been warned when BL was 15 and even if they failed to try to provide mental health help, BL's crime didn't occur until almost a full decade later. A warning from a professional on the day of or even the week of a crime is an entirely different matter.

The article posted above discusses the expected impact of the Crumbley verdicts. Some posit they will set the stage for charging more parents for their children's actions. But not everyone quoted in the article agrees. For example:

"Indeed, the elder Crumbleys’ cases were so uncommon that their impact will likely be limited, Frank Vandervort, clinical professor of law at the University of Michigan Law School, said prior to the trials in January.

“I don’t anticipate there’s going to be a lot of this kind of thing filed; I think this is a pretty unique case."

I do agree it can be a Catch-22 when blaming parents. Adult children can't be forced to get mental health help by parents anywhere in the US. Getting an involuntary commitment is not easy unless the person is in imminent danger and quite impaired by mental illness. That's also true for teenagers in most states these days. So saying all of this would have been avoided had the Laundrie parents "done something" ignores reality IMO. (And assumes the parents knew something should be done.)

I do find it interesting that BL's mother was repeatedly demonized here for actions suggesting she MAY have not been happy with B&G's relationship, she may not have been happy having GP living in her house, and she may not have made GP feel consistently welcome. But it's a pretty small house for 4 adults to share. I wouldn't be happy sharing a small house with a young couple either! And maybe RL was in a position to see the relationship was not necessarily a healthy one for either party. (Cassie did say G&B argued frequently when they lived with her family but denied ever seeing any physical violence. Still, even constant arguing is not a sign of a healthy relationship.) But rather than seeing RL's actions as positive or even neutral, she's blamed for being "mean" to GP.
MOO

Edit: typo, missing word

Thus why I said it was a catch 22.

 

[RANCH]

Unless they did know and were covering for him... we know someone who did exhibit violent writings at age 17, and his mother covered up the fact that he was receiving psychiatric care from his social circle.

I never heard about a coverup.

 

[Wallendo]

Brian's statement “About a year ago I went in to a type of mania where I was smashing holes in the wall with my head, kicking throug (sic) paintings, tearing whatever I was working on, pouring gasoline on myself to burn alive but getting the lighter wet, parking out in murderland listening to Mac [unclear, but may be ‘DeMarco’] with a gun to my head, wrestling alligators,” Laundrie wrote in his diary on October 26, 2018." comes across very melodramatic. He obviously didn't wrestle alligators. I also suspect he didn't put his head through walls or kick through paintings. The pouring gasoline line also seems dramatic.

Although we will likely never know for sure, I suspect he hid his demons well most of his life. Unfortunately, Gabby was present and isolated with him when his demons reared their ugly heads again.

 

[Megnut]

Brian's statement “About a year ago I went in to a type of mania where I was smashing holes in the wall with my head, kicking throug (sic) paintings, tearing whatever I was working on, pouring gasoline on myself to burn alive but getting the lighter wet, parking out in murderland listening to Mac [unclear, but may be ‘DeMarco’] with a gun to my head, wrestling alligators,” Laundrie wrote in his diary on October 26, 2018." comes across very melodramatic. He obviously didn't wrestle alligators. I also suspect he didn't put his head through walls or kick through paintings. The pouring gasoline line also seems dramatic.

Although we will likely never know for sure, I suspect he hid his demons well most of his life. Unfortunately, Gabby was present and isolated with him when his demons reared their ugly heads again.

And sadly, she thought she could love his demons away.

Imagine the life she could have had on her own or with someone healthy who valued her.

She didn't get the chance to break free.

He made sure of it.

 

[wnk]

I think that a lot of bright young women tend to romanticize the "tortured poet/artist/musician" type. They interpret his dark thoughts as emotional depth and convince themselves that his moodiness is only because he's so much more conscientious about what's going on in the world than others are. They fall into a sort of "savior complex" over being the only one who really understands him, the only person whom he can really talk to, the only place where he finds beauty in this otherwise ugly world.

 

[Megnut]

A lesson she should have come to understand, in the rearview.

Let no one be fooled that he loved her so much he couldn't live without her.

It wasn't love. He didn't want her to live without him.

 

[Laura456]

Brian's statement “About a year ago I went in to a type of mania where I was smashing holes in the wall with my head, kicking throug (sic) paintings, tearing whatever I was working on, pouring gasoline on myself to burn alive but getting the lighter wet, parking out in murderland listening to Mac [unclear, but may be ‘DeMarco’] with a gun to my head, wrestling alligators,” Laundrie wrote in his diary on October 26, 2018." comes across very melodramatic. He obviously didn't wrestle alligators. I also suspect he didn't put his head through walls or kick through paintings. The pouring gasoline line also seems dramatic.

Although we will likely never know for sure, I suspect he hid his demons well most of his life. Unfortunately, Gabby was present and isolated with him when his demons reared their ugly heads again.

We need to focus as much on signs of partner violence in health classes as we do on abstinence.

"If you stay after seeing these signs, you WILL likely end up in hospital or a morgue. This is serious"

 

[GRT]

The Moab PD is fighting back. Kind of dirty, too.

Cops slam Gabby Petito's parent's lawsuit as 'substitute for GoFundMe'

The Moab Police Department is seeking to dismiss a $50million wrongful death lawsuit filed by the parents of Gabby Petito, who was murdered by her fiancé after police stopped them

www.themirror.com

 

[Cool Cats]

The Moab PD is fighting back. Kind of dirty, too.

Cops slam Gabby Petito's parent's lawsuit as 'substitute for GoFundMe'

The Moab Police Department is seeking to dismiss a $50million wrongful death lawsuit filed by the parents of Gabby Petito, who was murdered by her fiancé after police stopped them

www.themirror.com

I think they worded it succinctly... They are being sued for 50 million so they have to get right to the point to be able to mount a plausible defense. She was killed 15 days after the Moab police separated them, it is not like he murdered her that specific night which would give more justification for the lawsuit.

2 Cents

 

[tlcya]

In new court documents obtained by The US Sun the police department wrote: "In this case, Brian Laundrie murdered Petito 15 days after they left Moab together. During that 15-day interval, Petito had her van, keys, and contact with her family. Instead of leaving Laundrie, she drove with her fiance to Wyoming 400 miles away from Moab.

"Moab's police department did not cause Petito's engagement to Laundrie, her decision to remain with him, her decision to continue driving to Wyoming, or Laundrie's criminal conduct weeks later." The department added: "Petito's murder is an undeniable sorrow. Laundrie's crime was undisputedly depraved. But the judicial system is not a substitute for a [redacted by me - funding site] campaign; heartbreak is not enough."

In their 14-page motion to dismiss the lawsuit, the Moab Police Department referenced multiple cases where crimes were committed after encounters with the police. The legal document reads: "In this case, Laundrie murdered Petito '[r]oughly two weeks after' their interaction with the Moab Police Department. That crime happened hundreds of miles away from Moab at a campsite in Wyoming.
Cops slam Gabby Petito's parent's lawsuit as 'substitute for '

IMO they aren't wrong. I don't think the Petitos have a good case. I feel this is about getting a pound of flesh from everyone they blame for their daughter's death. First with the surviving Laundries, now with Moab PD.

Because the true person to blame is dead by suicide and therefore they cannot get their pound of flesh from him. Money isn't going to bring Gabby back. And this suit isn't going to change what happened or how things are done in future. At some point the Petitos will need to process their anger and move forward. Probably not a popular POV but that is mine. JMO MOO

 

[Skigirl]

In new court documents obtained by The US Sun the police department wrote: "In this case, Brian Laundrie murdered Petito 15 days after they left Moab together. During that 15-day interval, Petito had her van, keys, and contact with her family. Instead of leaving Laundrie, she drove with her fiance to Wyoming 400 miles away from Moab.

"Moab's police department did not cause Petito's engagement to Laundrie, her decision to remain with him, her decision to continue driving to Wyoming, or Laundrie's criminal conduct weeks later." The department added: "Petito's murder is an undeniable sorrow. Laundrie's crime was undisputedly depraved. But the judicial system is not a substitute for a [redacted by me - funding site] campaign; heartbreak is not enough."

In their 14-page motion to dismiss the lawsuit, the Moab Police Department referenced multiple cases where crimes were committed after encounters with the police. The legal document reads: "In this case, Laundrie murdered Petito '[r]oughly two weeks after' their interaction with the Moab Police Department. That crime happened hundreds of miles away from Moab at a campsite in Wyoming.
Cops slam Gabby Petito's parent's lawsuit as 'substitute for '

IMO they aren't wrong. I don't think the Petitos have a good case. I feel this is about getting a pound of flesh from everyone they blame for their daughter's death. First with the surviving Laundries, now with Moab PD.

Because the true person to blame is dead by suicide and therefore they cannot get their pound of flesh from him. Money isn't going to bring Gabby back. And this suit isn't going to change what happened or how things are done in future. At some point the Petitos will need to process their anger and move forward. Probably not a popular POV but that is mine. JMO MOO

<modsnip>

They are entitled to defend themselves against a lawsuit, but they are the ones who showed her that she had few options and that she was terribly unsafe and vulnerable; that law enforcement would not only not help her, but would blame her, side with him, hear out his side of the story and almost unquestioningly believe him without ever asking her if what he said was true, call her the aggressor, terrify her, demoralize her, maybe even toss her in jail.

 

[Sundog]

The Moab PD is fighting back. Kind of dirty, too.

Cops slam Gabby Petito's parent's lawsuit as 'substitute for GoFundMe'

The Moab Police Department is seeking to dismiss a $50million wrongful death lawsuit filed by the parents of Gabby Petito, who was murdered by her fiancé after police stopped them

www.themirror.com

I'm glad they're fighting back.

 

[Megnut]

I think they worded it succinctly... They are being sued for 50 million so they have to get right to the point to be able to mount a plausible defense. She was killed 15 days after the Moab police separated them, it is not like he murdered her that specific night which would give more justification for the lawsuit.

2 Cents

In new court documents obtained by The US Sun the police department wrote: "In this case, Brian Laundrie murdered Petito 15 days after they left Moab together. During that 15-day interval, Petito had her van, keys, and contact with her family. Instead of leaving Laundrie, she drove with her fiance to Wyoming 400 miles away from Moab.

"Moab's police department did not cause Petito's engagement to Laundrie, her decision to remain with him, her decision to continue driving to Wyoming, or Laundrie's criminal conduct weeks later." The department added: "Petito's murder is an undeniable sorrow. Laundrie's crime was undisputedly depraved. But the judicial system is not a substitute for a [redacted by me - funding site] campaign; heartbreak is not enough."

In their 14-page motion to dismiss the lawsuit, the Moab Police Department referenced multiple cases where crimes were committed after encounters with the police. The legal document reads: "In this case, Laundrie murdered Petito '[r]oughly two weeks after' their interaction with the Moab Police Department. That crime happened hundreds of miles away from Moab at a campsite in Wyoming.
Cops slam Gabby Petito's parent's lawsuit as 'substitute for '

IMO they aren't wrong. I don't think the Petitos have a good case. I feel this is about getting a pound of flesh from everyone they blame for their daughter's death. First with the surviving Laundries, now with Moab PD.

Because the true person to blame is dead by suicide and therefore they cannot get their pound of flesh from him. Money isn't going to bring Gabby back. And this suit isn't going to change what happened or how things are done in future. At some point the Petitos will need to process their anger and move forward. Probably not a popular POV but that is mine. JMO MOO

Reacting to both of these posts in general, domestic violence is complex. Change comes slowly.

There was a time, and still may be one, where LE responds to a call, and neither party wants charges filed, and LE walks away. It is now SOP in cases for LE to remove one party, voluntarily or otherwise EVEN IF the alleged victim begs LE not to. (Domestic violence is complex.) The new understanding is that, the victim may still be in the throes of codependency (or just plain afraid s/he'll be worse when s/he returns). LE has taken that precarious step out of the occasion. When you know more, you do better.

I happen to think LE tried hard that day. Certainly spent an inordinate amount of time with the couple. Separated the couple, let tension settle, brought in a sane-sex officer. But IMO they failed to ask some of the right questions. Failed to follow the letter of the law. Would thst have saved GP? Whets the saying? It can take something like seven attempts to successfully leave an abusive partner. GP didn't even know how abusive he was. Red flag #1: she's apologizing for his behavior..

What this lawsuit MIGHT do is effect change. Not just in that jurisdiction but countrywide. And not just change for LE but education across the board, universal awareness of what intimate partner violence looks like, how to recognize it, how to intervene, etc.

IMO GP's family is COMMITTED to effecting that change, to protect and save future Gabbys.

And this IMO is how it's done.

Just like there's SWAT now, ready to mobilize as needed, perhaps one day, there will be specially trained LE personal who are called out on domestic calls. Rapid deploy.

I think no one would fault GP's family if they chose to grieve in private and faded into anonymity, but they have chosen to honor GP's life by changing laws in the hopes of making the world a safer place. No small task.

I applaud it.

JMO

 

[tlcya]

Reacting to both of these posts in general, domestic violence is complex. Change comes slowly.

There was a time, and still may be one, where LE responds to a call, and neither party wants charges filed, and LE walks away. It is now SOP in cases for LE to remove one party, voluntarily or otherwise EVEN IF the alleged victim begs LE not to. (Domestic violence is complex.) The new understanding is that, the victim may still be in the throes of codependency (or just plain afraid s/he'll be worse when s/he returns). LE has taken that precarious step out of the occasion. When you know more, you do better.

I happen to think LE tried hard that day. Certainly spent an inordinate amount of time with the couple. Separated the couple, let tension settle, brought in a sane-sex officer. But IMO they failed to ask some of the right questions. Failed to follow the letter of the law. Would thst have saved GP? Whets the saying? It can take something like seven attempts to successfully leave an abusive partner. GP didn't even know how abusive he was. Red flag #1: she's apologizing for his behavior..

What this lawsuit MIGHT do is effect change. Not just in that jurisdiction but countrywide. And not just change for LE but education across the board, universal awareness of what intimate partner violence looks like, how to recognize it, how to intervene, etc.

IMO GP's family is COMMITTED to effecting that change, to protect and save future Gabbys.

And this IMO is how it's done.

Just like there's SWAT now, ready to mobilize as needed, perhaps one day, there will be specially trained LE personal who are called out on domestic calls. Rapid deploy.

I think no one would fault GP's family if they chose to grieve in private and faded into anonymity, but they have chosen to honor GP's life by changing laws in the hopes of making the world a safer place. No small task.

I applaud it.

JMO

Thank you for your thoughts. I do not applaud it, but recognize their right to file a lawsuit. I do not believe they have a strong case and feel that they are still focused on things other than really processing their grief.

 

[Cool Cats]

Reacting to both of these posts in general, domestic violence is complex. Change comes slowly.

There was a time, and still may be one, where LE responds to a call, and neither party wants charges filed, and LE walks away. It is now SOP in cases for LE to remove one party, voluntarily or otherwise EVEN IF the alleged victim begs LE not to. (Domestic violence is complex.) The new understanding is that, the victim may still be in the throes of codependency (or just plain afraid s/he'll be worse when s/he returns). LE has taken that precarious step out of the occasion. When you know more, you do better.

I happen to think LE tried hard that day. Certainly spent an inordinate amount of time with the couple. Separated the couple, let tension settle, brought in a sane-sex officer. But IMO they failed to ask some of the right questions. Failed to follow the letter of the law. Would thst have saved GP? Whets the saying? It can take something like seven attempts to successfully leave an abusive partner. GP didn't even know how abusive he was. Red flag #1: she's apologizing for his behavior..

What this lawsuit MIGHT do is effect change. Not just in that jurisdiction but countrywide. And not just change for LE but education across the board, universal awareness of what intimate partner violence looks like, how to recognize it, how to intervene, etc.

IMO GP's family is COMMITTED to effecting that change, to protect and save future Gabbys.

And this IMO is how it's done.

Just like there's SWAT now, ready to mobilize as needed, perhaps one day, there will be specially trained LE personal who are called out on domestic calls. Rapid deploy.

I think no one would fault GP's family if they chose to grieve in private and faded into anonymity, but they have chosen to honor GP's life by changing laws in the hopes of making the world a safer place. No small task.

I applaud it.

JMO

If they followed the letter of the law they said they were supposed to arrest Gabby.

The Petitos have already accomplished what they wanted. That Utah police department has made quite a few changes and one of those responding officers quit policing altogether.

They don't need to bankrupt an entire town to help domestic violence victims and to raise awareness.

They already have a foundation supporting domestic violence victims and raising awareness.



With a mission to turn our tragedy into purpose the Gabby Petito Foundation was born.

We wish to address the needs of organizations that support locating missing persons and to provide aid to organizations that assist survivors of domestic violence through education, awareness, and prevention strategies.

2 Cents

 

[Megnut]

Thank you for your thoughts. I do not applaud it, but recognize their right to file a lawsuit. I do not believe they have a strong case and feel that they are still focused on things other than really processing their grief.

FWIW I think this is HOW they're processing their grief, by channeling it into positive change.

Who better to do it?

Rhetorical and JMO

 

[Megnut]

If they followed the letter of the law they said they were supposed to arrest Gabby.

The Petitos have already accomplished what they wanted. That Utah police department has made quite a few changes and one of those responding officers quit policing altogether.

They don't need to bankrupt an entire town to help domestic violence victims and to raise awareness.

They already have a foundation supporting domestic violence victims and raising awareness.

View attachment 517055

With a mission to turn our tragedy into purpose the Gabby Petito Foundation was born.

We wish to address the needs of organizations that support locating missing persons and to provide aid to organizations that assist survivors of domestic violence through education, awareness, and prevention strategies.

2 Cents

I hear everything you're saying, and I don't know how municipalities finance lawsuits, but this is the only way to make huge change, with teeth that can bite. Not just in Utah but across the country. It is costly but it might make other cities and states sit up, take notice, and protect themselves from similar suits by mandating change.

I think they see this action as a arm of their mission, the ultimate mission not to bankrupt anyone but rather attack domestic violence on all fronts.

That is a huge undertaking. That's what I applaud. Realistic? I wish WS went belly up for lack of threads. Will anyone ever save everyone? No. Humans always find new ways to hurt each other. But it's something. And they don't have grounds in other states so they're are knocking down doors where they can.

Believe me, I see and understand both sides. I don't wish to be argumentative or oppositional. I'm not assessing whether it's right or fair or will achieve the ends for which they're meaning. I just see why they're doing it and understand it.

It is not for personal profit or any kind of retaliation IMO.

It's to bring about change, on a larger scale.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I hear everything you're saying, and I don't know how municipalities finance lawsuits, but this is the only way to make huge change, with teeth that can bite. Not just in Utah but across the country. It is costly but it might make other cities and states sit up, take notice, and protect themselves from similar suits by mandating change.

I think they see this action as a arm of their mission, the ultimate mission not to bankrupt anyone but rather attack domestic violence on all fronts.

That is a huge undertaking. That's what I applaud. Realistic? I wish WS went belly up for lack of threads. Will anyone ever save everyone? No. Humans always find new ways to hurt each other. But it's something. And they don't have grounds in other states so they're are knocking down doors where they can.

Believe me, I see and understand both sides. I don't wish to be argumentative or oppositional. I'm not assessing whether it's right or fair or will achieve the ends for which they're meaning. I just see why they're doing it and understand it.

It is not for personal profit or any kind of retaliation IMO.

It's to bring about change, on a larger scale.

JMO

I just think they already did this....They used the publicity to start a worthwhile foundation that has a mission to raise awareness and help victims.

Police departments already know they can be sued at any time, this lawsuit can remind them.

Plus...They already litigated Bryan's estate and sued his parents getting them to settle. The parents' depositions are a gold mine of domestic violence denial. Should use it in class.

 

[housewife]

The Moab PD is fighting back. Kind of dirty, too.

Cops slam Gabby Petito's parent's lawsuit as 'substitute for GoFundMe'

The Moab Police Department is seeking to dismiss a $50million wrongful death lawsuit filed by the parents of Gabby Petito, who was murdered by her fiancé after police stopped them

www.themirror.com

So Moab just created another PR nightmare for themselves.
Classy.

Is Pratt still a police officer?
"Stewart said in the statement, 'Moab City Police Department knew or should have known that Officer Pratt, who has a history of pervasive professional and sexual misconduct, including sexual harassment and intimate partner violence, was manifestly unfit and unsafe to be a police officer."

Another interesting article:

What we need to learn from Gabby Petito

Domestic violence deaths are preventable. We asked experts how to stop them.

www.vox.com