Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #187

[Boxer]

The Illusive Bullet

Well, more like a bullet that has no photos or video evidence following its discovery in the ground between Abby and Libby according to that Final Draft.

Seems like the perpetrator definitely had a gun on him and must have fired it for some reason.

The gun is visible "printing" through the jacket. Not fired during crime, but MOO the slide was pulled back to seat a bullet in the chamber.
Then forgetting and pulling the slide again would cause an unfired bullet to pop out of the gun.

 

[Boxer]

My opinion is that Richard Allen did not commit this crime, although he will probably get convicted of it. People do not go from living a seemingly normal life to torturer, murderer of children, then back to a normal life.

To do so, would take the mindset of a psychopath, which Richard Allen does not appear to be.

There were no signs that I am aware of regarding a change in his demeanor after the crime that would indicate psychopathic behavior. The only alleged link to him was the bullet as far as I can tell. But, it was an unfired bullet. How do ballistics play a role in that identification?

And, how did a bullet allegedly from his gun get there? He would have had to rack the gun, eject the bullet, and not know if was on the ground. Then, he would have had to bury it between the bodies? Again, that makes no sense and the killer would have to know the bullet would lead back to him

The location of the crime as well as the steps taken to carry it out make no sense. If psychopathic murder was the intent, why go through all of the steps, such as crossing the river, positioning branches over the bodies, undressing, and then redressing at least one of the bodies, all with the risk of being caught in a relatively open area?

And there was no blood or DNA found on Allen's clothing, was there?

No, I don't think he did this, but like other high-profile crimes, he will get convicted because due to public pressure plus the fact that no juror wants to be known as the juror who helped free a potential child killer, he will go down.

Jurors that convict him will likely have the mindset that if he is truly innocent it will come out on appeal, and they will have a clean conscience.

Killers do that all the time.
One and done killers are very common.

 

[Boxer]

If the perpetrator kept trophies or souvenirs of the victims, Abby and Libby, and was reluctant to get rid of them (which is highly likely) the probability of finding them would have been right up there if he couldn't part with them.

This could be something the prosecuting team may have up their sleeves that we don't know about yet.

The defense knows from discovery.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The defense knows from discovery.

Absolutely and that is the reason for the Franks 1, 2, 3, 4 and so on.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I don’t think there are any other investigators to ask? I think Ligget and Holeman are the guys. It’s just CCSO and ISP accusing RA. The FBI and the other agencies that assisted earlier have nothing to do with this case with RA. TL sent the bullet to the state lab, not the FBI lab, so I don’t know if the FBI even handled any forensics or testing on the RA side of things? MOO

Do you have something to link saying the FBI have had no involvement in the case with RA?

Someone here on the threads recently posted an article that said even though the FBI had scaled back their operation (because they got the right man IMO) they were still involved in the case.

Thanks

 

[girlhasnoname]

Did RA have a Concealed Carry permit?

Indiana is an open carry and concealed carry state except automatic rifles and in certain locations:

<snipped>

Indiana is a licensed open carry state. This means that you can open carry with the state license based on the shall issue policy.

You do not need a permit to open carry long guns in the state.

Indiana gun laws preempt local regulations of firearms in the state.

There are also restrictions of firearms in Indians; therefore, you cannot possess assault weapons in the state.

Indiana Open Carry: Laws, Requirements, Application & Online Training – GLS Tactical

 

[MiniMoo]

But as you said, doing all that in your own small town knowing people have seen you… it’s beyond the pale even by the standards of almost every single serial killer in history.

Some are geographic killers, transient, one off types - well, all kinds exist really including those that will commit murders in familiar known territory.

Samuel Little was a transient type of killer whereas Israel Keyes chose the USA as his killing grounds and didn't care who he targeted as long as it wasn't a child and he would probably not have got caught had he not broken his own rules by killing on his own turf so close to home whereas Mike Debardeleben remained under the radar for years and committed all kinds of crimes including counterfeiting. In fact, I'm almost certain that that is what got him caught - it was actually the counterfeiting that lead them (police and detectives) to discovering that he was possibly a serial killer.

So, some will kill in or near their home or work locations (even the next town or two over) as it is familiar and known to them whereas others will do it elsewhere so as to keep that distance and separation.

 

[girlhasnoname]

One thing that just clicked for me is that there must have been something pretty damning found during the search warrant at RA's house. The defense would not be spending so much time trying to get the warrant thrown out if nothing of value was found - that would actually be exculpatory and beneficial to the defense. Franks memo after Franks memo seems to indicate they want whatever was found at that house to be suppressed, desperately.

JMO

Yep, join the choir. I've been singing that song since the first FM. They are sooooo desperate it reeks.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

So the mental health professional who was seeing RA in corrections… did not? Have a conflict of interest then? I mean given her participation in social media groups about this case? Not sure I recall her name. No link so MOoOoO

That was a SM rumor, never confirmed in MSM.

 

[girlhasnoname]

if she'd just held a Franks hearing to begin with, none of this would be happening. Instead the defense has been forced to keep refiling it (while adding stuff to it) to make a record for appeal.

IMO MOO

Judge Gull was not required to hold a hearing for the Franks Memo. She reviewed it (136 pages) and denied without a hearing, which is absolutely her right.

I think the FM was so egregious and OTT I agree with her 100%. Odins, ritual sacrifice, CS details which were not correct or debatable...remember their special footnotes.

MOO

 

[Salah11]

Judge Gull was not required to hold a hearing for the Franks Memo. She reviewed it (136 pages) and denied without a hearing, which is absolutely her right.

I think the FM was so egregious and OTT I agree with her 100%. Odins, ritual sacrifice, CS details which were not correct or debatable...remember their special footnotes.

MOO

She gave it the acknowledgement it deserved imo

 

[girlhasnoname]

Interestingly, they may not have to win on facts. If JG keeps going the way she is, I wonder if they'll win a mistrial and he will go free regardless??

RA isn't going anywhere, even if there is a mistrial IMO. The State would just recharge him and do it all over again.

<snipped & BBM>

What happens if you have a mistrial?​

If a mistrial occurs, the current trial is terminated and considered "void," according to Britannica. This means that the prior proceedings are no longer valid, and the process for a new trial must begin with the same parties and charges but a new jury (if there is a jury).

Because a mistrial is neither a finding of innocence or guilt, a prosecutor in a criminal case can decide to retry the defendant.

What is the meaning of mistrial? Unpacking what the court term means for a defendant

 

[girlhasnoname]

How many Franks are before her currently without rulings? LIke it or not, she's supposed to rule on motions before her. If she finds them frivolous, surely there is a means to put an end to them swiftly? Ya know, by ruling on them?

Denied without a hearing is a valid ruling.

EBM: Need more coffee, worded incorrectly

 

[Salah11]

I still believe that they will quit on him when they can’t delay anymore and realize that it’s going to trial and they ain’t ready.

I have seen nothing so far that convinces me they will be ready come October.

 

[marv hucker]

Reverse this thought, and maybe wonder why some don't understand people tying themselves to his guilt, before even a single day of evidence.

It works both ways, at least IMO.

See, no. I truly cannot understand why people could think that.
Prior to the 5 confessions, maybe.

It is possible he didn’t do it. Possible.

Objectively it is not at all likely that he - the only man there - who happened to be wearing the same outfit as the filmed suspect, whose gun matched the bullet found there, who supposedly didn’t see another man, and who confessed 5 times - is not the guy.

It’s possible - granted. But it would be a bizarre set of coincidences and even more bizarre personal motivations.

 

[Salah11]

Reverse this thought, and maybe wonder why some don't understand people tying themselves to his guilt, before even a single day of evidence.

It works both ways, at least IMO.

Apart from we know some evidence and he has confessed so doesn’t hold the same water

BG is the killer and he is BG so the logic here suggests he is guilty.

Moo

 

[MiniMoo]

The gun is visible "printing" through the jacket. Not fired during crime, but MOO the slide was pulled back to seat a bullet in the chamber.
Then forgetting and pulling the slide again would cause an unfired bullet to pop out of the gun.

Not enough to bury itself in the ground though, right?

Has a gun been recovered with the same bullets and serial numbers because it is that that will put RA at the scene of the crime for sure if he is the owner and it wasn't reported stolen.

I wonder if they found the gun to that bullet.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Just out of curiosity because I’ve been away for quite a long time did the defence actually state that they needed “more time” then the prosecution in this case?

Yes.

During the hearing, the defense expressed worry that the prosecution would take up too much time during the trial, and requested 15 working days to present.

The trial has already been pushed back and extended several times since Allen’s arrest. The most recent trial dates were set for May 13 – 31.

Special Judge Gull responded to the request by saying she couldn’t ask the jury to extend past the dates already set for May, adding that two and a half weeks should be sufficient time for the case.

Prosecution replied saying that they tried to “cut the fat” as sufficiently as possible. Prosecutors planned to call 45 witnesses with a projected end date of May 25, which would give the prosecution seven days to present outside of jury selection.

Judge postpones Delphi murders trial following defense's request for 'more time to present'

The trial for Delphi murders suspect Richard Allen has been pushed back until October 2024, special Judge Gull ordered Tuesday.

www.wishtv.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

So why didn’t they take the info seriously then from EF? When his sister went to Le with her concerns about things he had said, how long before they met him? Did he do a polygraph or dna test? I recall his lawyer declined one of these, but I forget which. Funny that.

Per the FM, (which has limited credibility IMO) EF is interviewed on video, by Jerry Holeman, and Kevin Murphy. Page 92. During this interview, Elvis agreed to take a mouth swab that would be used for DNA. After being dropped off at home, EF makes statement about spitting on one of the girls. Page 93

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf - ANDREW J. BALDWIN

pdfhost.io

 

[steeltowngirl]

But, we only know about what's in the depositions from the totally fabricated Franks memo, remember?

^I would feel better if we could see the depositions in their entirety. At this point, we only have them in a partial interpretation by defense.

There are so many things about this crime that are just astonishingly brazen.

Like, let’s say hypothetically it wasn’t RA and was just like a random drifter (although I absolutely believe it was RA, to be clear.) Doing a double knife murder in broad daylight in a public place with witnesses around, and then hanging around the crime scene for an hour or whatever is by itself off-the-scale bonkers.

^did he hang around for an hour? I’ve not seen this.

Do you have something to link saying the FBI have had no involvement in the case with RA?

Someone here on the threads recently posted an article that said even though the FBI had scaled back their operation (because they got the right man IMO) they were still involved in the case.

Thanks

^WTHR

ISP Superintendent Doug Carter on arrest of Richard Allen in Delphi murders

“The FBI has provided assistance to the Indiana State Police and the Carroll County Sheriff’s Office in this investigation and will continue to help in any way we can to see justice done for Libby and Abby. Because this is a pending investigation, we do not have any details to share at this time.”