GA GA - Katherine Janness & Dog Bowie Fatally Stabbed - Piedmont Park, Atlanta, 2021 #5

[AtlantaBourne]

I have not read all of the pages here and only know the broad strokes of the case, so please forgive me if this theory has been discussed or doesn’t make sense. Please let me know what you all think:

I’m thinking through how the perp could subdue both victims without losing physical control of one or both while attacking the other.

If the perp was known to the victims, as police think, is it possible that Bowie taken “hostage” by the perp to control KJ? Do we know anything about Bowie’s temperament and obedience level? Could the perp have used knowledge of both victims’ behavior to gain control of his leash?

Once he had Bowie in close proximity, he could have made any number of verbal threats that Bowie may not have understood if done in a neutral tone of voice. Threats to Bowie may have been enough to subdue KJ and gain her cooperation to not scream to draw attention or run away. MOO

They said they believe the attack happened soon after she entered the park- what is that based on? Is that timeframe based on the proximity to where she entered the park?

This link might answer some questions IMO. Basically, the victims were last seen on camera at 12:09am, although this report states 12:07am and were found by EC around 1:00am. Piedmont Park is off of Piedmont Ave & 10th St.

‘She was the best person ever:’ Vigil held for murder victim found in Piedmont Park

A vigil for a woman found brutally murdered in Piedmont Park was held Thursday evening not too far from where her body was discovered.

www.atlantanewsfirst.com

 

[PrairieWind]

I was looking for that picture somebody just posted on the camera on 10th Street. And I don't see it anymore. But I remember it looks like the camera is on a building on the corner on 10th and Piedmont. So I don't know, I'm confused more by that, is she going north to south, or south to North at the intersection?

Are you referring to the photo of KJ and Bowie in the rainbow crosswalk? She is crossing south to north on the west side of the intersection of 10th and Piedmont.

 

[PrairieWind]

I have not read all of the pages here and only know the broad strokes of the case, so please forgive me if this theory has been discussed or doesn’t make sense. Please let me know what you all think:

I’m thinking through how the perp could subdue both victims without losing physical control of one or both while attacking the other.

If the perp was known to the victims, as police think, is it possible that Bowie taken “hostage” by the perp to control KJ? Do we know anything about Bowie’s temperament and obedience level? Could the perp have used knowledge of both victims’ behavior to gain control of his leash?

Once he had Bowie in close proximity, he could have made any number of verbal threats that Bowie may not have understood if done in a neutral tone of voice. Threats to Bowie may have been enough to subdue KJ and gain her cooperation to not scream to draw attention or run away. MOO

They said they believe the attack happened soon after she entered the park- what is that based on? Is that timeframe based on the proximity to where she entered the park?

I think she likely entered the park on the west side, either at 10th at the extreme south west corner of the park (most likely) or perhaps one of the small entrances off of piedmont. And then proceeded inside the park to the area of the CA gate where the attack occurred. I think the attack, however it happened, must have played out very quickly. Somehow the killer approached without alarming Bowie, then very very quickly killed him and then attacked KJ. For that reason, I think that where Bowie's body was found was likely where the attack commenced. Quite possible that KJ was intending to exit from the CA gate to head home.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

9:50 am on 7/28/21 is the time of the APD report.

In the second paragraph it states KJ was last seen walking her dog in Midtown Atlanta - and references (in parenthesis) the photo in which she was last seen - walking in the rainbow crossing crosswalk from SW corner of 10th toward the NW corner of 10th (though she at first appears to be angling a bit NE) at approx 12:09 am.

As Quell correctly posted, the camera that captured KJ and Bowie crossing the intersection from SW to NW is on top of the building in which Flying Biscuit is a tenant (the building is on the NW corner of Piedmont and 10th).

LE arrived on the scene at the 10th St. Charles Allen gate at approx. 1:10 am on 7/28/21

Jmo

Okay I didn't know the cam was on the northwest corner, I thought it was on the southwest corner. Because I was picturing 10th Street and picturing that everything, like all the buildings, were on the south side. So that confused me for a second. But I have to remember this is further past the park, so now it makes sense again.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Are you referring to the photo of KJ and Bowie in the rainbow crosswalk? She is crossing south to north on the west side of the intersection of 10th and Piedmont.

Yes now I understand better. Thanks.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I think she likely entered the park on the west side, either at 10th at the extreme south west corner of the park (most likely) or perhaps one of the small entrances off of piedmont. And then proceeded inside the park to the area of the CA gate where the attack occurred. I think the attack, however it happened, must have played out very quickly. Somehow the killer approached without alarming Bowie, then very very quickly killed him and then attacked KJ. For that reason, I think that where Bowie's body was found was likely where the attack commenced. Quite possible that KJ was intending to exit from the CA gate to head home.

I agree with your part where you said, she entered the park at the extreme West side on 10th Street. Because I don't think there would be any reason to go up to 12, when she can already enter at 10. And I think she walked along the park path parallel to 10th Street, because that's really close to 10th Street, within feet, and so it's not as dangerous as being smack dab in the middle of the park. Any emergency and she can just run out a few feet on to 10th Street.

And in addition, although some others disagree with this, I still stick with the idea that if she would have walked along further on 10th Street, apparently there was some cameras there that should have caught her, I think somebody said a fire station or something. And she wasn't, so that means she crossed into the park early.

And that's why the crosswalk was the last known picture of her. And where she was, quote, last seen. Because they probably quickly looked on cameras, around that spot, and she wasn't on it. Some poster was like, oh they have to look on so many cameras to figure that out, that's going to take so much time.

No not really. You only have to look on two cameras actually. One camera on either side of her. Actually only one really. You only have to look at the next camera, in the direction she was walking to. And they would probably know what direction she was walking, because of the cameras 'before' that spot. And if she's not on the next camera, that means she went into the park. So yes, they could easily know that by the next morning.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

This link might answer some questions IMO. Basically, the victims were last seen on camera at 12:09am, although this report states 12:07am and were found by EC around 1:00am. Piedmont Park is off of Piedmont Ave & 10th St.

‘She was the best person ever:’ Vigil held for murder victim found in Piedmont Park

A vigil for a woman found brutally murdered in Piedmont Park was held Thursday evening not too far from where her body was discovered.

www.atlantanewsfirst.com

Yes I think the last seen language kind of implies it's the last picture.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I have not read all of the pages here and only know the broad strokes of the case, so please forgive me if this theory has been discussed or doesn’t make sense. Please let me know what you all think:

I’m thinking through how the perp could subdue both victims without losing physical control of one or both while attacking the other.

If the perp was known to the victims, as police think, is it possible that Bowie taken “hostage” by the perp to control KJ? Do we know anything about Bowie’s temperament and obedience level? Could the perp have used knowledge of both victims’ behavior to gain control of his leash?

Once he had Bowie in close proximity, he could have made any number of verbal threats that Bowie may not have understood if done in a neutral tone of voice. Threats to Bowie may have been enough to subdue KJ and gain her cooperation to not scream to draw attention or run away. MOO

They said they believe the attack happened soon after she entered the park- what is that based on? Is that timeframe based on the proximity to where she entered the park?

Well this is what I think happened. First of all I believe the two were acquainted. But even if they were not, I believe Katie and the dog were near the bathroom about to walk out of the park. The guy approached from the bathroom area and walked North to Katie. He said hello and quickly bent down to pet the dog. Like he was trying to be friendly. And then he quickly pulled out his knife and quickly slashed the dog's throat, and continued to stab the dog. So this all probably took place very fast Maybe 30 seconds. Perhaps Katie tried to protect the dog at first and was in shock for a few seconds while this went on. Then she realized what was going on, and she turned and ran North into the park. The assailant saw her running while he was finishing up the stabbing, and then ran after her, and it took him about 100 ft to catch up to her. And then he pulled her into the trees I guess.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Okay I found the podcast where they talk about the injuries. It's a Nancy Grace project, but she's not in this podcast. The guy in the podcast was very shocked by the injuries, as you can hear him speak. After you listen to it, let me know your opinion on if your idea of the characteristics of the injuries changed. Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Murder in Piedmont Park

In referring to my pet "tinfoil hat theory," I didn't intend to imply that the sexual sadist killer is a per se conspiracy theory, but I do think it is less likely than the alternative. JMO.

I read the autopsy report a long time ago (and don't intend to read it again as it was very upsetting), so I am not fresh on the details, but I would ask what's the evidence for arguing that the injuries were very careful and specific? I don't remember the report offering an opinion on "precision work." I think that we are interpreting the same facts differently.

"Surgical precision" is a trope of true crime reporting and analysis, so I'm not sure that we can always infer from the sanitized medical terminology of the autopsy dictation that the wounds were incurred with the the acuity of a physician's scalpel. Just because injuries affected certain organs doesn't mean that the murderer intended to target that organ specifically. And to use a crude example not applicable here, we often read breathless crime reporting that says, e.g., that a limb was dismembered with "anatomical precision," but anyone who has carved a Thanksgiving turkey knows you separate the leg at the joint. You don't have to be a surgeon. , the letters carved (presumed to be "FAT) weren't complete and weren't to

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Agreed the autopsy report was very horrific to read IMO & I was shocked that it was released to the public also, IMO. The points that stuck out to me in it were the fact that KJ was a very healthy adult with no liver, kidney damage. No evidence of drug use or alcoholism. There was reported the start of heart disease. Over 50 stab wounds, all different types of sharp-forced wounds. Some deep & intentionally placed (4 IIRC), some incised, some less than 1/2" deep. The eyelid injuries, chest & 5-1/2-6" long letters FA on her right side chest (the horizontal line in A was a 2-2-1/2" stab wound) & torso & T on her left chest & torso. The T had 2 verticle incisions & there were numerous wounds to the hands, fingers & forearms. Also contusions & abrasions to the lower back in addition to stab wounds around a tattoo. There were no injuries to the legs or feet. Shoes were still on with laces tied. There was a $5 bill folded in the small front pocket of her jeans that EC stated she kept to give to panhandlers. No one has ever stated that KJ's phone was found with her. EC stated that it was found.
KJ worked at The World Improv on Spring St for 8 years. She was the bar mgr. She also worked at Campagnola, an Italian Restaurant, as a bar tender. Before that, she worked at a bar on 10th St called Q with EC's brother. EC stated that was how she met KJ & they had been a couple for 7+ years. They lived in an apt on Piedmont near 10th St that was damaged by a fire & they moved to an apt on North Ave.
They were saving up to buy a house.
At the time EC gave her 2nd interview (wearing a white T-shirt sitting on a covered porch) she stated that she normally didn't work on Tues nite but she had switched days so she could take KJ to the airport to visit family in MI. She said KJ was suppose to have gone that nite. I took that she meant the same day she gave the interview which was on Thurs., 07/29/21. EC also stated that KJ had been off from work Tuesday. This is all my opinion ref by previous posts with MSM reports & the Fulton County Med Examiner's autopsy report.

Listen to the Body bags crime stories podcast I linked above. I think you'll come away with a different impression on the nature of the injuries.

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

podcasts are not autopsy reports

 

[JackieBrown]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

Thanks for the podcast. I’m listening to it now. I skimmed the transcript and found an answer to one of my questions:
“So was this a frenzied event or was she somehow removed somewhere else, maybe under cover, and all of this stuff was done to her. But you can't get past the fact that this was facilitated by an individual that had to take a significant amount of time. You know, you can say “frenzy”, we can apply that term, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it happened over a very short period of time.”

 

[RetLawyer]

Thanks for the podcast. I’m listening to it now. I skimmed the transcript and found an answer to one of my questions:
“So was this a frenzied event or was she somehow removed somewhere else, maybe under cover, and all of this stuff was done to her. But you can't get past the fact that this was facilitated by an individual that had to take a significant amount of time. You know, you can say “frenzy”, we can apply that term, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it happened over a very short period of time.”

Not sure who you are quoting, but KJ’s killer had at most 15 - 20 min. He probably didn’t need or take that much time. A number of forensic pathologists think it took about 5 min.

 

[Quell]

It seems Joseph Scott Morgan (former senior investigator with the Fulton County ME Office) (in his Body Bags Podcast) says the killer took his time. DA Fani Willis said the same in a press conference early on.

 

[JackieBrown]

Not sure who you are quoting, but KJ’s killer had at most 15 - 20 min. He probably didn’t need or take that much time. A number of forensic pathologists think it took about 5 min.

Thanks for sharing that.

Quoting (from the podcast upthread) this gentleman who reviewed the autopsy report.

Joseph Scott Morgan and his credentials:

Joseph Scott Morgan, MFS, F-ABMDI - Criminal Justice and Forensic Investigation

Medicolegal death investigator expert, author/podcaster Joseph Scott Morgan is a frequent contributor to Headline News, CNN, and Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

jsu.edu

The podcast and full transcript here:

Body Bags: Murder in Piedmont Park - Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

Discretion advised: Details in this report may be disturbing.Katherine “Katie” Janness takes her dog, Bowie, for a late-night walk in the Midtown area of Atlanta. Janness stops at a local bar to say hello to her girlfriend, who's working. When Janness' girlfriend gets off work, no one is home...

omny.fm

 

[Rush4087]

It seems Joseph Scott Morgan (former senior investigator with the Fulton County ME Office) (in his Body Bags Podcast) says the killer took his time. DA Fani Willis said the same in a press conference early on.

Unless Joseph Scott Morgan knows the exact moment the attack on KJ began and the exact moment the attack ended, and unless he witnessed the disposition and actual actions of the murderer (which he did not), there is no way he (let alone Fani Willis) could know whether the killer “took his time” or not. Imo Morgan and Willis’ statements are pure speculation, and irresponsible speculation at that.

Morgan and Willis’s statement gave the impression that the killing was almost done at leisure, a slow sadistic torture. I have never bought that. And he (and Fani) simply could not know. I guess he thinks it would take a long time to stab and slash somebody 50 times with a knife. I personally think it could be done in mere minutes (even if you wanted to carve 3 letters, which I’m not sure they did), especially if the victim was incapacitated early on

Remember, the killer first had to dispose of Bowie. The killer also had to worry about being seen or caught (even if they were suffering from psychosis, they knew enough to leave quickly).

I find it very hard to believe that the killer knelt over KJ within view of the CA gate and “took their time”. As video shows, there are still people around the park at that hour. Even in the case of a non random attack, it would have been a frenzied, less than 5 minute mauling. And maybe even less than that (jmo). Then he was gone.

I know he’s with the ME office, but Morgan and Fani Willis’s statements jeopardized the investigation imo, as they painted just one picture / psychopathology / attitude of the suspect: that of a slow sick dissection done to maximize pain. I just don’t believe they could possibly know 100
percent from the nature of the wounds that that is what happened, and if they’re wrong, it discounts other scenarios and possible suspects that otherwise should be considered.

All jmo

 

[Quell]

Joe Scott Morgan’s former employer (Ful Co ME Office) is the party that released KJs ME report without statement.

What are y’all’s thoughts about that? Did that also jeopardize the investigation?

 

[RetLawyer]

Joe Scott Morgan’s former employer (Ful Co ME Office) is the party that released KJs ME report without statement.

What are y’all’s thoughts about that? Did that also jeopardize the investigation?

I don’t think it harmed the investigation at all. I think it helped focus attention to the case. The APD needs to release more information. That’s how difficult cases are solved, especially cold cases. The case needs to be kept in the public’s eye. When no information is released and there is not a more complete understanding of what happened, the case doesn’t get written about and not enough people think and talk about the case. For example, APD could release some of the victimology report so the public knows more about what Katie was doing in the days/weeks/months leading up to her death. That could jog someone’s memory about something that could be a useful tip. Same if they would release some of the murderers profile. IMHO

 

[Quell]

@RetLawyer Is it typical to do all of what you’ve described and APDs approach is bit out of the norm? Asking because this is the first crime I’ve followed like this (since 6a the day of the murder) and I don’t know how these things shld go/have no reference for it.

 

[RetLawyer]

@RetLawyer Is it typical to do all of what you’ve described and APDs approach is bit out of the norm? Asking because this is the first crime I’ve followed like this (since 6a the day of the murder) and I don’t know how these things shld go/have no reference for it.

It really depends on the police department. Usually the FBI will advise the police to release certain information. Usually when a difficult case goes cold, the police department will release more information, so, the answer to your question is: it depends. But IMHO the APD needs to release more information to engage the public. The last time I spoke with a detective at the APD, they had no leads and no suspect.