Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2020 - 2022 - #2

[ReadySet]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1798021895809294356

Published​

June 4, 2024

The investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman continues at the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office. This year, we have launched a new webpage where the public can find information on the case and send us tips.
Kyron was last seen the morning of June 4, 2010, at Skyline Elementary School in Portland, Oregon attending his school’s science fair. He has not been seen or heard from since. At the time, he was seven years old.
Kyron has brown hair, blue eyes and wears glasses. He also has a distinct V-shaped strawberry birthmark on his forehead.


Complete article at link...

Investigation into Kyron Horman’s disappearance ongoing

The investigation into the disappearance of Kyron Horman continues at the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office.

www.mcso.us

Interesting.

I hope this sends a chill right into Terri's cold little dark heart.

 

[Vegan1234]

100% agree with this. There is a reason we are here 14 years later. LE knew about all these phones and where they bought them. I personally don’t believe they were stashed away as claimed.

Sources: Terri Horman's friend used fake name to buy phones

Friends of Terri Horman purchased cell phones to communicate with her after stepson Kyron Horman disappeared two months ago, and one friend did so using a fake name, several sources said Friday.

komonews.com

 

[FergusMcDuck]

100% agree with this. There is a reason we are here 14 years later. LE knew about all these phones and where they bought them. I personally don’t believe they were stashed away as claimed.

Sources: Terri Horman's friend used fake name to buy phones

Friends of Terri Horman purchased cell phones to communicate with her after stepson Kyron Horman disappeared two months ago, and one friend did so using a fake name, several sources said Friday.

komonews.com

Yeah, it has never made sense to me that the burner phones are indicative of culpability.

The burner phones were bought after the police pulled a failed sting operation on Terri, and Kaine had taken their daughter and moved out. They were bought by Terri, Dede and a third person who has never been even theorized to be involved.

Now, if Dede was involved in the crime with Terri, why would she insert herself so publicly in Terri's life at that point? No one was looking at Dede at this point (they weren't that close friends, unlike what many say), so why point a shiny arrow right on her? And if they had used burner phones during the crime, why get new ones and draw attention to the possibility of earlier use? Why involve a third, innocent party that could easily spill the beans to the cops - as she did? None of it makes sense from the perspective of guilt.

 

[OddOneOut]

Yeah, it has never made sense to me that the burner phones are indicative of culpability.

The burner phones were bought after the police pulled a failed sting operation on Terri, and Kaine had taken their daughter and moved out. They were bought by Terri, Dede and a third person who has never been even theorized to be involved.

Now, if Dede was involved in the crime with Terri, why would she insert herself so publicly in Terri's life at that point? No one was looking at Dede at this point (they weren't that close friends, unlike what many say), so why point a shiny arrow right on her? And if they had used burner phones during the crime, why get new ones and draw attention to the possibility of earlier use? Why involve a third, innocent party that could easily spill the beans to the cops - as she did? None of it makes sense from the perspective of guilt.

I believe the police took their original phones away. Did the police still have them when the burner phones were purchased? If so, it makes sense to buy a temporary phone until theirs were returned.

 

[Vegan1234]

interesting. still very rare.

It is rare but that doesn’t mean it can’t happen. Especially at a school who advertised a science fair that was open to the public with every door to the building open, no sign in sheet or checking anyone coming and going.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Nancy Grace has an episode about Kyron on Merit TV here (you need to sign up, but full episodes appear to be uploaded to YouTube regularly, so it will likely be there soon). What's interesting is that Kaine Horman is interviewed. The panel is fairly uninformed and not very insightful, but Kaine has some interesting information. When a reporter on the panel mentions Desiree's story about the witnesses that supposedly saw Kyron leave with Terri, Kaine is asked about it:

KAINE: Personally, I have no first hand account of anybody having seen him in the parking lot or her or them leaving together, uhm, I’ve heard a lot of second hand information that there’s a number of different accounts, there’s accounts of people seeing all three of them leaving, because my daughter was with them as well, there’s accounts of seeing him by himself in the parking lot getting into vehicles, I’ve heard different kinds of vehicles, not just a truck, and I’ve heard other, other accounts of people witnessing her leaving the school by herself. I haven’t heard any, directly, so it’s all second hand information, I apologize, I don’t have any first hand witness accounts that have been dictated to me personally in that instance, but it has been a little bit of everything to be honest.

This is interesting, because in the book Boy Missing, this is how Desiree tells it:

Sitting at the Marriott with the deputy DAs and Kaine and his attorney, Desiree and Tony heard the newest developments.
[...]
The bombshell was that Kyron was seen leaving the school with Terri. The MCSO had said it a couple of weeks before, then retracted it. Now it was confirmed. Kyron’s regular bus driver, plus Kyron’s friend Carson and Carson’s sister and grandmother, had all seen Kyron leaving the school on June 4 with Terri. It was true. Kyron, Kayla, and Terri had walked through the parking lot at 8:50 a.m. on June 4. They were not holding hands, the bus driver said, but they were walking together. Terri had not parked in the school parking lot, where she said she had, but on a gravel road on the far-west side of the school where the elevation of the school building and grounds partly concealed the white truck.

This obviously doesn't match what Kaine is saying in the episode. This just further confirms to me that the "witnesses" are something Desiree heard of not from LE but from others in 2015 and onwards - when she first began to make the claim. There's a reason no reporter has ever got the info from anyone other than Desiree - not from law enforcement, not from any of the witnesses themselves.

An interesting little bit in the episode:

Witnesses at the school report an unidentified man in a white pick up truck at the science fair, but his identity remains a mystery.

It comes right after a clearly wrong bit of info (that Dede got a "mystery call" and left abruptly - no one ever claimed to see Dede leave the farm, and her phone was in her car), so take it for what it is. But we had a discussion earlier in this thread about this mystery man who was never identified, so at the very least he wasn't made up out of thin air.

 

[Vegan1234]

Kaine has said many times he gets briefed the exact same information as Desiree. His comments just shows how messed up the case is with all the unconfirmed stories being told. There is a reason why the current DA has said any new evidence will be looked at. Because what they have doesn’t prove anything except that Kyron is still missing and they can’t find him. Until they do and they can somehow link his disappearance to someone, anyone, this case will never see a day in court. JMO

 

[ReadySet]

You just never know what will happen in a criminal case. Cases can be pretty unpredictable.

I suspect Terri is quaking in her boots with what's going on. She knows that anytime, any day, LE could come knocking on her door. Time to pay the piper, Terri.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

You just never know what will happen in a criminal case. Cases can be pretty unpredictable.

I suspect Terri is quaking in her boots with what's going on. She knows that anytime, any day, LE could come knocking on her door. Time to pay the piper, Terri.

What is going on? I see absolutely nothing new here. People have predicted the imminent arrest of Terri since July 2010. If she ever was afraid of being arrested, I suspect she hasn't been for a long, long time.

 

[Truth Prevails]

You just never know what will happen in a criminal case. Cases can be pretty unpredictable.

I suspect Terri is quaking in her boots with what's going on. She knows that anytime, any day, LE could come knocking on her door. Time to pay the piper, Terri.

It's gone so quiet. I wonder every day if something is happening in the background. Then I remind myself it's summer and maybe everyone is taking a much-deserved vacation.

The fact that Kaine granted an interview with Nancy Grace surprised me more than what he said. I thought it was nice to hear from him after so many years.

Using "first-hand account" and "second-hand information" to describe what he knew (or didn't know) about the witnesses who saw Terri, Kyron, and baby K in the parking lot was interesting. Desiree told us her information came directly from law enforcement. Not having a first-hand account could mean no witness had approached Kaine directly. Second-hand information could mean Kaine was given "unconfirmed details" from people who had been told "unconfirmed details" by others. I think he purposely avoided revealing what law enforcement told him.

I'm pretty sure Kaine had information from law enforcement when he made the statement quoted in the link below. Since we know there were no surveillance cameras at Skyline School in 2010, the knowledge required to place Kyron with Terri had to come from the witnesses.

[October 22, 2010] In new court documents, Kaine Horman states he believes Terri Moulton-Horman "abducted and may have caused unimaginable harm" to Kyron Horman.
It's the most strongly worded statement yet by Kyron's parents about Terri's possible involvement in Kyron's disappearance.
https://web.archive.org/web/20101025001823/https://www.kgw.com/home/Kaine-Terri-abducted-may-have-caused-unimaginable-harm-to-Kyron-105567163.html

Simply my opinion. Justice for Kyron!

 

[Vegan1234]

You just never know what will happen in a criminal case. Cases can be pretty unpredictable.

I suspect Terri is quaking in her boots with what's going on. She knows that anytime, any day, LE could come knocking on her door. Time to pay the piper, Terri.

The book itself, especially Desiree stating (until this day) that she and MCSO did not agree with the profile of the perpetrator from the FBI National Center for Missing & Exploited Children Agency that it was someone who is not Terri who took Kyron. I highly doubt Terri is shaking in anything. I don’t have a law degree and could defend her in court.

 

[ReadySet]

Just my own speculation, of course, because none of us here know for sure what is going on or what Terri is thinking. I do think she has been looking over shoulder for years. Because she knows what she did.

But maybe if WE don't know what's going on, then nothing is? Or not...

 

[Knox]

So willing to accept that “witnesses” saw a man in a white truck. But not the other witnesses who saw something involving Terri.

Kaine avoided directly answering the question asked. I agree that his appearance is surprising, let alone the venue he chose to appear on? Where was he last month on the anniversary of Kyron missing? So many local reporters he could have chosen to interview with. Very interesting.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

So willing to accept that “witnesses” saw a man in a white truck. But not the other witnesses who saw something involving Terri.

An unknown man is consistent with how the investigation unfolded and was spoken about already in 2010. The supposed witnesses that saw Kyron and Terri leave together, not so much (if they are indeed properly identified by Desiree).

The police haven't acted on the information about these witnesses in 2015 (when Desiree first made her claim) anymore than they did in 2010 (based on her claim in the book). Perhaps they realized that CL would have been inside the school at the time, not in the parking lot. And perhaps the list released in December 2010 of all the adults at Skyline that morning didn't have CL's grandmother on it.

Of course, if Desiree had this info in 2010, she could have deposed the witnesses for her civil suit - their statements would have essentially proven her case.

 

[ReadySet]

I imagine Terri falling asleep at night, only to be interrupted by the same nightmare, always the same; the driving, the sleeping toddler, the struggle, the scratches, the blackberry bushes, the meeting up, the silent struggle, the silence. The glasses. Always the same nightmare.

 

[Sleuth2010]

An unknown man is consistent with how the investigation unfolded and was spoken about already in 2010. The supposed witnesses that saw Kyron and Terri leave together, not so much (if they are indeed properly identified by Desiree).

The police haven't acted on the information about these witnesses in 2015 (when Desiree first made her claim) anymore than they did in 2010 (based on her claim in the book). Perhaps they realized that CL would have been inside the school at the time, not in the parking lot. And perhaps the list released in December 2010 of all the adults at Skyline that morning didn't have CL's grandmother on it.

Of course, if Desiree had this info in 2010, she could have deposed the witnesses for her civil suit - their statements would have essentially proven her case.

A negative/ accusatory tone toward a grieving parent(s) and constant dismissal of her intuition/ knowledge/ victim information from law enforcement matters.
So does Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a from philosophy. If an abduction has two possible explanations. The explanation that requires the fewest assumptions is usually correct. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation. Occam's razor applies especially in the philosophy of science, but also appears in everyday life.

Kyron was suffering under his stepmother. <modsnip - mischaracterization>
This imo, was done by a sickophant step parent, who lied repeatedly. And has more mental health and soul-sickness than can be covered here.
Every logical and legal step points there.

It is ashame that the D.A. in Oregon were not equipped to deal with a case of Kyron's magnitude.

Heartprints to those grieving.

imo moo omo

 

[Truth Prevails]

So willing to accept that “witnesses” saw a man in a white truck. But not the other witnesses who saw something involving Terri.

Kaine avoided directly answering the question asked. I agree that his appearance is surprising, let alone the venue he chose to appear on? Where was he last month on the anniversary of Kyron missing? So many local reporters he could have chosen to interview with. Very interesting.

Regarding the white truck sightings--I agree. I think Nancy Grace's panel guest, Ms. Newell of KXL, has been doing her research on Reddit.

The sightings of a white truck driven by a red-haired woman interest me, though. There have been quite a few actually. Four or five that we know of. A lot of credibility was given to each witness statement and all areas were professionally searched more than once.

Here is Desiree (from her Mother's Day interview) explaining how every possible angle was exhausted, and nothing was overlooked.

[24:03] I will say that they have gone out of their way to exhaust every other angle and suspect out there. They ruled out every parent that was in the school that day, every registered sex offender in the area, every house that neighbors up to the school. They have ruled out every single possible other person. Except one. I should two.
7-year old ABDUCTED from Portland SCHOOL: a mothers fight for JUSTICE

One last thought, by accident I came across an interview Kaine did with Annette Newell, KXL, on Father's Day of this year. I think it was released on the 26th, but Ms. Newell mentions a father missing his son on Father's Day. Kaine is a victim and I'm sure he misses Kyron every Father's Day (and each and every day). However, could he have chosen Father's Day because Doug Bishop released Desiree's interview on Mother's Day? It doesn't matter but I couldn't help noticing.

All the interviews are great for raising public awareness and renewing public interest in Kyron's case. They will help to show the new DA that the public supports Desiree's and Kaine's 14-year quest for justice for their son. Kyron was 7-years old.

Justice for Kyron!

 

[Vegan1234]

Regarding the white truck sightings--I agree. I think Nancy Grace's panel guest, Ms. Newell of KXL, has been doing her research on Reddit.

The sightings of a white truck driven by a red-haired woman interest me, though. There have been quite a few actually. Four or five that we know of. A lot of credibility was given to each witness statement and all areas were professionally searched more than once.

Here is Desiree (from her Mother's Day interview) explaining how every possible angle was exhausted, and nothing was overlooked.

[24:03] I will say that they have gone out of their way to exhaust every other angle and suspect out there. They ruled out every parent that was in the school that day, every registered sex offender in the area, every house that neighbors up to the school. They have ruled out every single possible other person. Except one. I should two.
7-year old ABDUCTED from Portland SCHOOL: a mothers fight for JUSTICE

One last thought, by accident I came across an interview Kaine did with Annette Newell, KXL, on Father's Day of this year. I think it was released on the 26th, but Ms. Newell mentions a father missing his son on Father's Day. Kaine is a victim and I'm sure he misses Kyron every Father's Day (and each and every day). However, could he have chosen Father's Day because Doug Bishop released Desiree's interview on Mother's Day? It doesn't matter but I couldn't help noticing.

All the interviews are great for raising public awareness and renewing public interest in Kyron's case. They will help to show the new DA that the public supports Desiree's and Kaine's 14-year quest for justice for their son. Kyron was 7-years old.

Justice for Kyron!

That must be a local station. I’ll have to look for it!

As for ruling out every possible scenario that’s just not true. There are so many people that have made statements that they called in a tip and were never called back even after multiple attempts. Including a law professor who found a bloody sock on a hiking trail.

Another person found a bloody children’s sweater in October 2010 and zero response from anyone. How does LE know the perpetrator had Kyron change? And still why would LE not collect these items even if they didn’t think they belonged to Kyron. There are so many missing children in Oregon. DNA could have been possibly matched to someone. And now we’ll never know.

Multiple Grand juries heard this case and here we are. According to the book even Desiree’s husband said the GJ looked bored.

Web exclusive: A bloody find on Black Butte and a broken system

<strong>Stephen Kanter:</strong> Little did I know that a routine morning hike and the discovery of a bloody sock on the trailhead would lead me into a tangle of bureaucratic bungling and jurisdictional disputes and the realization that a well-meaning citizen can be thwarted by broken...

www.oregonlive.com

 

[FergusMcDuck]

A negative/ accusatory tone toward a grieving parent(s) and constant dismissal of her intuition/ knowledge/ victim information from law enforcement matters.

Facts are facts. They don't become true or false depending on the status of the person saying them.

So does Occam's razor (or Ockham's razor) is a from philosophy. If an abduction has two possible explanations. The explanation that requires the fewest assumptions is usually correct. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation. Occam's razor applies especially in the philosophy of science, but also appears in everyday life.

Occam's razor doesn't supersede facts. And in this case, facts end up destroying any "simplicity" the Terri-did-it theory has. Look at all the cruft that has accumulated just to make sense of it - fake appointments, deliberate confusion, strategic parking places, Dede Spicher - and still no one has ever come up with a coherent theory.

Kyron was suffering under his stepmother.

Not really.

<modsnip - quoted post and response removed>

It is ashame that the D.A. in Oregon were not equipped to deal with a case of Kyron's magnitude.

It has nothing to do with the DAs in Oregon, who have had no issue handling high profile murder cases or cases based solely on circumstancial evidence.

But you need to have some evidence - at the very least enough to have probable cause before indicting. And it would appear that they just don't.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

and still no one has ever come up with a coherent theory.

Respectfully disagree. I know I've read coherent theories on these very threads in the past. There are plenty of theories of what may have happened that fit the timeline, IMO.

Also it is possible that people do things you wouldn't believe someone would do. (Gannon Stauch's case comes to mind.)