Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #188

[Willow Knight]

There is no “Rick Whiteman.” DD (conservation officer) who took down RA’s information actually wrote that his name was Rick Whiteman, when in fact his surname was Allen and he lived on Whiteman Way. Another reason I do not trust any recollection by DD. JMO

I'm not aware of this recorded note being released to the public. My opinion is DD wrote Richard Allen (dash) Whiteman. I can understand how a person could file this under "Whiteman". Easy to think Allen was a middle name.

 

[Willow Knight]

Per the PCA. The tip narrative includes “Mr Allen” as well as his stated time on the trails, where he parked, his phone MEID number

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

RSBM

This right here! DD also took and documented Richard Allen's MEID number. I'm confident the jury will take note of this.

 

[photographer4]

We'll probably get to see the written words of DD as an exhibit and I'm sure they will be read onto the record too. MO

I'm not sure I'd believe the words of DD and I would hope that the D would ask him some very pertinent questions about the things he did write down, and how he's positive they're more accurate than other things he wrote down incorrectly. I'd also ask him where the recording is of the initial mtg. https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

 

[photographer4]

In all fairness to DD, we don't know yet, by his testimony, if it was written in DD's report like that or transposed by someone else like that in error. MO

If he thinks he recorded it, why can't he find the recording? https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

 

[photographer4]

Yes and it doesn’t even add up, as the girls who believe they saw him, and he also saw those young girls took a photo of a Bench at 1.26pm and they saw him after that photo was taken. So his new timeline simply doesn’t work. He didn’t get on to those trails until 1.30ish.

IMO to be safe

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

Wondering if we know: did the girls see him walk UP to the bridge / bench or? Did they see him ARRIVE (park? walk toward the bridge? Where were they when they spotted BG?). How are they certain he didn't leave right after they spotted BG?

 

[photographer4]

We don't know how that informal meet up occurred. RA didn't go to the police department, he met up with DD at a store, where DD took notes. No recording because IMO it was informal and LE would follow up. He didn't know they didn't, didn't know his notes got misfired, likely a clerical error, and in reviewing how ever many recorded interviews he did, he would not have happened upon one with RA or RAW because there never was a recording. Nor a follow up at the time because of the surname error.

JMO

That's a bit of a big error though no matter how we look at it imo. It just seems to me that if an LE (or someone from an agency assisting LE) interviews someone who says they were at the trail that day, that this person would then contact his supervisor or LE directly and speak to whomever is in charge as soon as they found out they had just talked to a guy who was there! Especially if he was there at a time so relevant to the case - even if they LE didn't know what time the kids were taken at that point. How did this information get lost for so many years? If I were DD I'd be calling LE to say hey guys - I met with some guy around the time when the murders happened, I can't remember his name but he was there.... I'd like to know - did he do this? If not, why not? If so, when?

 

[photographer4]

I hope we get an insight into his behavior from friends or family or co-workers as he must have been completely freaked out once that video came out, and he knew he had placed himself on that trail just before he committed the crimes to that officer. MOOOOO

I wonder if he perhaps didn't freak out the way we imagine he may because it doesn't seem that anyone called to give LE his name or anything else that would help lead LE to him around the time when that video was released. If someone had done so, surely they'd have made this arrest years sooner, no? Moooo.

 

[photographer4]

Based only on the information that is currently publicly available, what is the current consensus regarding the strength of the case against RA? Based on what I've heard, I think it's fairly strong.

The video is infamously difficult to make out details from, but RA at least looks close enough that the video doesn't rule him out. Whereas it seems to rule out everyone else known to be on the trail that day.

"known" is the keyword for me in your post. LE can't account for people they do not know to have been there. We'd like to think they rounded up everyone who was there, and that RA is the right man, but there is the chance that actually, someone else *was* there that no one seems to know about and it could be RA or it could be someone else entirely. We don't really know yet. We know that the police and State have a theory as to what happened that day, and there is probably something really damning in what was found with the Search Warrant at RA's home because the D is very much opposed to it staying as evidence.... but still don't know a whole lot really.

I think RA probably is some sort of guilty in this matter. In whole or in part, I don't know. Doesn't really matter because if he is guilty at all, I hope he pays the price.

 

[grannygates]

Exactly to whom should prosecutor NM make this response? YouTubers?

The prosecutor should and, IMO, WILL respond at trial. Why would anyone think the prosecutor should respond to us, the public? Why should a prosecutor ignore a gag order?

The prosecutor will correct at the proper time. At Trial!!!

MOO

I think it was obvious that I meant to the court in the subsequent response filing.

The example I gave was the 3rd Franks, which pointed out the inconsistent witness statements, geofencing and the Turco statement. NM’s response goes into detail about the geofencing and Turco statement but IMO completely avoids addressing the issue re: the witness statement with any detail.

My curiousity was why there is such detail about the two other items, pages, and then no acknowledgment or detail at all about the conflicting witness statements.

All MOO

 

[MiniMoo]

During deliberations the jury can certainly use their brains in how believable witnesses were to them and what weigh to give the evidence in turn. Some with a more keen sense of some things may even point out different things to the others, for discussion. The jurors are not robots and are allowed to use all their human qualities to help determine guilt or innocence, like cognitive, intuitive, mechanical etc.. Hoping for a well-rounded group of individuals myself, with one or two good multitaskers. AJMO

Didn't say they had to be robots, but they are still limited to relying on facts, evidence and reliable witnesses.

I hope among them are some unbiased, open minded, logical and fair individuals as well as intelligent - not too easily swayed by others thoughts or opinions yet receptive.

 

[MiniMoo]

Per the PCA. The tip narrative includes “Mr Allen” as well as his stated time on the trails, where he parked, his phone MEID number and the fact that he only saw the one group of girls during his entire visit due to looking at his stock ticker.

He was the only man seen on the trials from 1:30pm to 2:15pm by the people on the trails. They had walked the entire trail from Freedom Bridge to High Bridge and Trailhead entrance.

From all the accounts I have read other individuals entered the trails after 2:15pm-5pm.

None those individuals saw RA or the girls from 215-3:57pm, when RA was leaving the trails.

The only way RA is going to be found not guilty is if he can place himself somewhere else from 1:30-3:57pm on February 13th, 2017.

The tip narrative is not needed to find him guilty.
But I think it’s pretty obvious one was made shortly after the girls went missing by RA.
All my opinion

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2022/11/Probable-Cause-Affidavit-Richard-Allen.pdf

Can they pin his cell phone in that location during that time?

I know there were a few cell phones in the area at that time, but I think his may not have been one of them.

I wonder who leaves home without a cell phone these days?

 

[sunshineray]

Oh my gosh I didn’t know that the FBI clerical error story was from the freakin Murder Sheet and not from the LE?

“Áine Cain and Kevin Greenlee, creators of the The Murder Sheet podcast, told The Independent on Thursday that a civilian FBI employee mislabeled or misfiled information about Mr Allen when he was interviewed by police not long after the murders of Libby German and Abby Williams in Delphi, Indiana.”

Delphi murders suspect slipped through net in 2017 due to ‘clerical error’

EXCLUSIVE: An affidavit released this week revealed that Richard Allen had actually been on the radar of law enforcement at the time of the murders and told police that he was at the scene of the murders in 2017

www.independent.co.uk

This is the FBIs response:

“The statement says:

As stated in the past this is a complex multi-agency investigation. The implication that an alleged clerical error by an FBI employee caused years of delay in identifying this defendant is misleading. Our review of the matter shows FBI employees correctly followed established procedures.”

Responding to "Clerical Error" Claims

INDIANAPOLIS — Some have been saying it was a “clerical error,” and now the FBI is responding. You might have heard reports that tracking down a suspect in the Delphi case was delayed due to a “clerical error.” FBI Indianapolis issued a response to those claims Thursday. The statement says: As...

wibc.com

Guess we'll have to wait for testimony to find out.

 

[sunshineray]

Can they pin his cell phone in that location during that time?

I know there were a few cell phones in the area at that time, but I think his may not have been one of them.

I wonder who leaves home without a cell phone these days?

It could be a case of his everyday phone having a digital black hole for the abuduction/murders time frame and maybe there's evidence of a burner phone at the scene not identified. Either of those would be very suspicious as RA said he was watching his stock ticker on his phone while walking the trail. MO

 

[sunshineray]

I'm not sure I'd believe the words of DD and I would hope that the D would ask him some very pertinent questions about the things he did write down, and how he's positive they're more accurate than other things he wrote down incorrectly. I'd also ask him where the recording is of the initial mtg. https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

Why would you think DD was not telling the truth, just curious?

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Can they pin his cell phone in that location during that time?

I know there were a few cell phones in the area at that time, but I think his may not have been one of them.

I wonder who leaves home without a cell phone these days?

A person that feels the need to carry a gun for protection during their afternoon hike on a trail walked by single women and teenage girls would obviously want to carry a phone to call for help.
Unfortunately, I don’t believe RA has his phone with him between 1:30–3:30pm that day.

 

[sunshineray]

If he thinks he recorded it, why can't he find the recording? https://www.scribd.com/document/672126677/DELPHI-Memorandum-in-Support-of-Motion-pdf

He said he was unsure if it was recorded, 6 years later. At the time in 2017 all he's doing is interviewing a local CVS guy who told him about more potential witnesses, which he noted to look into. His job was to do the interview, write a report. With the flood of tips coming in generating mounds of reports, I find one of them being missfiled not very extraordinary. Richard Allen having a first name for his last name too probably was the root cause of the error in filing. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Wondering if we know: did the girls see him walk UP to the bridge / bench or? Did they see him ARRIVE (park? walk toward the bridge? Where were they when they spotted BG?). How are they certain he didn't leave right after they spotted BG?

The group of girls were leaving, he was arriving (time stamped by a photo image from a witness). RA's words put him on the trail watching his stock ticker, then on the first platform of the bridge (time stamped by Harvest Store video) Witness BB saw RA on the first platform right before leaving and immediately seeing Abby and Libby approaching the bridge.This has all been discussed over and over. Can't wait to hear the actual testimony from the witnesses themselves. MO

 

[grannygates]

Can they pin his cell phone in that location during that time?

I know there were a few cell phones in the area at that time, but I think his may not have been one of them.

I wonder who leaves home without a cell phone these days?

This is what I’m wondering ! Where is the cell phone data!?

Even if the phone was turned off at a certain time or remained at home, unused for 9 hours straight, this info still adds to a story of some sort.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Didn't say they had to be robots, but they are still limited to relying on facts, evidence and reliable witnesses.

I hope among them are some unbiased, open minded, logical and fair individuals as well as intelligent - not too easily swayed by others thoughts or opinions yet receptive.

Yes well-rounded individuals, we can only hope.

 

[sunshineray]

Can they pin his cell phone in that location during that time?

I know there were a few cell phones in the area at that time, but I think his may not have been one of them.

I wonder who leaves home without a cell phone these days?

RA said he had his cell phone on the trail and was using it on the trail. Then he gave his cell phone information to DD just days later. If that doesn't show up as being on the trail, that's a big problem for RA, IMO It being there during the original time frame RA told DD he was there would also be a big problem for RA, IMO.