Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #188

[Salah11]

<Modsnip: Quoted post was removed as rumor> ... also this photo shows how young he can look at he doesn’t look late 40’s.

ETA - photo for context

Man arrested over Delphi murders pictured with police sketch of suspect in background

Richard Allen was charged on Friday in connection with the 2017 murders of Libby German and Abby Williams

www.independent.co.uk

 

[MiniMoo]

<Modsnip: quoted post was removed as rumor> ... also this photo shows how young he can look at he doesn’t look late 40’s.

ETA - photo for context

Man arrested over Delphi murders pictured with police sketch of suspect in background

Richard Allen was charged on Friday in connection with the 2017 murders of Libby German and Abby Williams

www.independent.co.uk

He doesn't look like either of those sketches though - not by a long shot.

To me he looks older than the sketch of the younger male and younger than the one of the older male, but he doesn't look like either of them.

 

[Salah11]

He doesn't look like either of those sketches though - not by a long shot.

To me he looks older than the sketch of the younger male and younger than the one of the older male, but he doesn't look like either of them.

I can see bits of him in each sketch so just like how some saw a baby goat in the bridge video it’s up to the individual to decide what they see I guess

Imo

 

[sunshineray]

So you think, LE had their "last puzzle piece" already within the first week after the crime, if they only had known or if they only had filed it in a proper way?
What if in case of the two little cousins from Iowa (2012) something similar happened? - Just a spontaneous thought ....

It wasn't until late Summer of 2022 that RA said he walked out to the first platform on the Monon Bridge during the voluntary interviews of he and his wife.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Imugvrdzw

So you think, LE had their "last puzzle piece" already within the first week after the crime, if they only had known or if they only had filed it in a proper way?
What if in case of the two little cousins from Iowa (2012) something similar happened? - Just a spontaneous thought ....

What i was trying to say was that once LE found out who was standing on the first platform, they would have the last puzzle piece. RA himself gave them the answer.
Sorry, I wasn’t very clear.

 

[FromGermany1]

What i was trying to say was that once LE found out who was standing on the first platform, they would have the last puzzle piece. RA himself gave them the answer.
Sorry, I wasn’t very clear.

You were clear enough, thank you! Well, RA put himself on that platform, thank God, and nailed it himself. I didn't take into account, that he didn't do it until 2022 - my mistake. Memory, you know ....

 

[MiniMoo]

I can see bits of him in each sketch so just like how some saw a baby goat in the bridge video it’s up to the individual to decide what they see I guess

Imo

I can't at all.

Probably because the sketches were drawn from grainy images and their eyes and noses aren't really the same.

Have just looked for images of RA to go along side those sketches to see better and...

Does anyone know if RA is left handed or not?

It has probably been discussed here before with #188 threads, I'm sure, but looking at BG on the bridge just now and then RA in a few photos - that question crossed my mind for some reason - - maybe because of their poses.

 

[katydid23]

So...

At any given time the perpetrator could have returned to the scene of the crime a second+ time and especially if, as pointed out before, some of those searchers may have been as far as 15 feet from the girls before they were found.

But the DT is now saying they took the girls away from the area and the returned later and dumped the bodies there----WHILE PEOPLE WERE IN THE AREA SEARCHING, including cops and firefighters.

If you kidnapped two girls from a park, and you knew people were searching for the girls in that park area, would you return to that area with the bodies and stage the scene?

I wonder if RA was a part of the initial search party or parties.

 

[Boxer]

Goldman doesn't have to worry about that because neither the phone or the girls left the area and then returned.

How could that have even been accomplished? By 3:30 pm on the 13th, Libby's father was already in the area, calling the phone and calling out their names. He also asked everyone he saw to help him search, and immediately there were a dozen people calling out to them and spreading out to find them. Soon there were dozens of first responders, and locals and friends and family walking all around, and many stayed throughout the entire night.

Why and how would a killer or killers return to that area, with all those police vehicles and searchers, calling out loudly for the girls? Do we seriously believe anyone would walk into that heavily watched area carrying two dead bodies, after they had already escaped the area safely already? Who would do that?

Does anyone think the DT is seriously going to try and convince the jury that, in spite of evidence to the contrary, someone killed the girls and then carried them BACK into the area that was actively being searched? Forensics blood evidence says that the girls were killed right where they lay. I am pretty sure there is other evidence showing that as well, like footprints, etc.

And what about the pesky Odinists? Were they the ones who took the girls and returned them? None of the searchers noticed a clan of bearded woodsmen carrying 2 bodies through the brush?

LG weighed 200 lbs. MOO nobody was carrying her over terrain.

 

[MiniMoo]

But the DT is now saying they took the girls away from the area and the returned later and dumped the bodies there----WHILE PEOPLE WERE IN THE AREA SEARCHING, including cops and firefighters.

If you kidnapped two girls from a park, and you knew people were searching for the girls in that park area, would you return to that area with the bodies and stage the scene?

The autopsies should give a good indication of when both died and if it is close to the time they were on that bridge with BG then it is likely they didn't go anywhere.

Why would someone take them away just to dump their bodies back there - too much work and risk involved.

Also, there is a possibility that he bled Abby out in the river due to her having no blood on her or very little and being so clean according to that Final Draft. JMT.

Note: Just me speculating about being bled out in the water - it isn't in the Final Draft. Not that I know of anyhow.

I am under the impression that there wasn't as much blood as there should have been at the crime scene with how both girls died.

 

[Andieinsyd]

RA had over 5 years to destroy any evidence he had on that phone. Or he may have gotten a new one during that time that was never used in any shady business. It sounds like he got new phones often based on the number that was recovered during the SW.

My phone plan upgrades me (if I choose) each time a new iPhone version comes out.

JMO

I wonder how closely LE watched RA after that first contact in 2022 - to see if he tried to destroy or move evidence prior to the search. If he is the perpetrator I suspect he had burner phone or phones and perhaps other digital devices that he kept hidden, possibly still hidden. Having said that, he did keep his car, which is interesting. MOO

 

[TTF14]

Well, I’m hitched because I re-read the 4th Franks and now I understand where Nick is getting this quote re:no contact with the tower past 5:44pm. It’s from the communication between Holeman and Blocher, which occurred at 1:00am on Feb14.

View attachment 520138

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

Exactly. Blocher was only "on the case" until 1AM. He wasn't looking at 4:33 AM, but the records show there was a communication with the tower. So, where was that dead/noncommunicating phone for roughly 3.5 hours?

This is what experts are needed for....on BOTH sides. We shouldn't accept either NM or AB saying what is relevant and what isn't because they are naturally biased toward what they are trying to prove (or disprove).

And impartial judge is needed to hear both sides and then decide.

IMO MOO

 

[photographer4]

I think it will be his own words of confession that brings it all together. JMO

This is worrying imo because people have been known to falsely confess to crimes they had nothing to do with whatsoever. And worse, people have been convicted and imprisoned as a result of same. Some are eventually freed when the real criminal(s) have been caught, but sometimes they’re not.

I don’t care if RA confessed unless he actually committed the crime. I am hoping he wasn’t fed info by anyone intentionally or not and that if he did the crime, the state has a lot more solid evidence to prove that he did it.

The Truth about False Confessions - Prisons and Justice Initiative

Above are some of the moments from our event “The Truth About False Confessions” held on Tuesday, March 22. Watch the full event and read a description below. Most people instinctively believe that only guilty people confess. But a great deal of both academic research and empirical evidence...

prisonsandjustice.georgetown.edu

 

[photographer4]

My own opinion is the State Prosecutors are not writing these motion's with the general public in mind. They're doing their job not concerning themselves with trying to make sure the general public understands.The punlic really doesn't even become relevant at trial either for there will be just the jurors to convince. That's their job, not making sure every person online interested in the case is fully informed. We get to observe what we can. We take what we can get and discuss, expecting anything else, IMO, is futile. AJMO
Of course when all is said and done with this trial, in the future there will be books to read I'm sure.

Is this case going to be televised? Just wondering?

 

[TTF14]

Is this case going to be televised? Just wondering?

No. Judge Gull was on some kind of committee or something to support livestreaming in Indiana.

She supports it. Just not in her courtroom.

IMO MOO

 

[somequestions]

Concerning the State's case, we aren't privy to all the evidence that they have...yet. MO

It would be nice to actually know what factual evidence the state has against Richard Allen. In my opinion, at this time the only hard evidence they have against him is the unspent cartridge found at the scene of the crime that toolmark analysis says could only have come from his gun. How solid is the science behind this evidence though? Then there are confessions too, but how detailed are they?

What will be really interesting at trial is to find out if the witness who saw Richard Allen on platform 1 can actually identify him as the person she saw on platform 1. If she cannot or she says she is unsure, the whole timeline might fall apart. Ironically, Richard Allen helps the state by claiming in the PCA that he indeed did walk past the Mears Farm Entrance and saw vehicles there, but did not pay any attention to them as he walked to the Monon High Bridge.

If someone else did murder Abigial Williams and Liberty German, the one conclusion I have come to is that this person came into the Monon High Bridge area and left the Monon High Bridge area without being seen or remembered.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I wonder how closely LE watched RA after that first contact in 2022 - to see if he tried to destroy or move evidence prior to the search. If he is the perpetrator I suspect he had burner phone or phones and perhaps other digital devices that he kept hidden, possibly still hidden. Having said that, he did keep his car, which is interesting. MOO

I would guess that LE never really took their 'eyes' off Allen after their Oct 13th 2022 interview. He knew he was being looked at and would have tried to get rid of anything incriminating as subtlety as possible. Maybe like burning something in a fire pit. He was arrested on the 26th so he had a couple of weeks.

I wonder if LE ever looked through the Allen's trash if it was left outside for pickup?

Getting rid of his car after his interview on the 13th would have only looked more suspicious.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

It would be nice to actually know what factual evidence the state has against Richard Allen. In my opinion, at this time the only hard evidence they have against him is the unspent cartridge found at the scene of the crime that toolmark analysis says could only have come from his gun. How solid is the science behind this evidence though? Then there are confessions too, but how detailed are they?

What will be really interesting at trial is to find out if the witness who saw Richard Allen on platform 1 can actually identify him as the person she saw on platform 1. If she cannot or she says she is unsure, the whole timeline might fall apart. Ironically, Richard Allen helps the state by claiming in the PCA that he indeed did walk past the Mears Farm Entrance and saw vehicles there, but did not pay any attention to them as he walked to the Monon High Bridge.

If someone else did murder Abigial Williams and Liberty German, the one conclusion I have come to is that this person came into the Monon High Bridge area and left the Monon High Bridge area without being seen or remembered.

It might be nice to know, but it makes absolutely no sense for the State to disclose what evidence they have against RA to the public. It will come out at trial.

I think the main points will be:
Unspent Bullet matching RA's Sig's ejector markings and brand of bullet possibly
RA's own admission to being on MHB at the time Abby & Libby were there.
RA's own admission to wearing clothing practically identical to BG, including a face covering.
Libby's Video
Evidence seized at the home during the S/W that the D has so, so desperately tried to have thrown out. Franks 1,2,3,4, and so on.
Geofencing and/or Electronic data
RA's own confessions, especially those to his wife and mother.

I think it's enough.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

This is worrying imo because people have been known to falsely confess to crimes they had nothing to do with whatsoever. And worse, people have been convicted and imprisoned as a result of same. Some are eventually freed when the real criminal(s) have been caught, but sometimes they’re not.

I don’t care if RA confessed unless he actually committed the crime. I am hoping he wasn’t fed info by anyone intentionally or not and that if he did the crime, the state has a lot more solid evidence to prove that he did it.

The Truth about False Confessions - Prisons and Justice Initiative

Above are some of the moments from our event “The Truth About False Confessions” held on Tuesday, March 22. Watch the full event and read a description below. Most people instinctively believe that only guilty people confess. But a great deal of both academic research and empirical evidence...

prisonsandjustice.georgetown.edu

To me RA confessing to his wife and mother multiple times in a phone call is key. Also his wife disconnecting that call and then RA going into a meltdown right after. Whether the call coming first before the delivery of discovery to him or after he saw the discovery...it works both ways in my mind.

All those subsequent confessions not being involved with LE interrogations (especially the letters to the warden) also gives them more value to me. It will sort itself all out when we finally get to hear exactly how RA confessed and what he's said. Details not known to the public would be very convincing. Talking about those, I believe that's the main reason the original FM included so much description of the scene, to take away from LE some of those things that only the killer knows, to weaken any further confessions RA might give. I also think it's extremely likely RA's lawyers told him to start confessing falsehoods (I shot them), pretty reprehensible of them, IMO.
All Just My Opinion

 

[somequestions]

I can't at all.

Probably because the sketches were drawn from grainy images and their eyes and noses aren't really the same.

Have just looked for images of RA to go along side those sketches to see better and...

Does anyone know if RA is left handed or not?

It has probably been discussed here before with #188 threads, I'm sure, but looking at BG on the bridge just now and then RA in a few photos - that question crossed my mind for some reason - - maybe because of their poses.

It has been discussed with various theories. The outline of the gun in the jacket from Liberty German's phone video of bridge guy looks like it was in the pocket so as to be pulled out by someone who is left-handed.

From watching Richard Allen play pool, it looks like he is right-handed. This was my own interpretation though.

Also, some crime scene photos were unfortunately released in this case. I have not seen them and do not want to, but crime scene photos can tell a story to an investigator. I have seen a re-creation of the photos and if the re-creation is correct, Liberty German's left hand is over her head. I wondered if maybe the killer dragged her body to where it was found by grabbing her left hand although that does not really prove anything about whether or not the killer is left-handed.

What really matters is the factual evidence against Richard Allen.

Can anyone at least prove how tall the person is in Liberty German's phone video?