Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #189

[TTF14]

Read the article. That's information quoted from the defense team. At this point, JMO, they have no credibility. They'll say anything, tell every kind of tall tale to get favorable media attention for their defendant.

Thanks, I'll wait for the trial.

Defense attorneys can't just lie. I'll wait for trial, too (we have no other choice), but in the meantime, I'll look at both/all sides.
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/..._conduct/rule_3_3_candor_toward_the_tribunal/

(Thank you, @AugustWest for that resource.)

 

[grannygates]

I thought this had already been discussed at length here, but maybe I'm thinking of another forum or conversation.

Insight into Delphi Double Homicide hearings

ALLEN COUNTY, Ind. (WLFI) — Richard Allen's attorneys are asking for one of the hearings set for Monday in Fort Wayne to be postponed.

www.wlfi.com

Yes, this would be the geofencing data of the 3rd Franks. We’ve discussed it.

Prosecution responded they already interviewed and “cleared” these phone owners and defense said they haven’t received that info or details of who owned the phones as of that date.

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

 

[grannygates]

More insight to the geofencing debacle aka “unknown phones at crime scene” starts at paragraph 30 - motion to compel.

https://www.scribd.com/document/712825934/Motion-to-Compel-and-Request-for-Sanctions

 

[steeltowngirl]

Interesting article while we wait…

Google announces it will revoke access to location history, effectively blocking geofence warrants

Geofence warrants, while beneficial in solving cold cases, faced controversy due to privacy concerns, as the warrants collected data from anyone near a crime scene

www.police1.com

 

[Betty P]

Defense attorneys can't just lie. I'll wait for trial, too (we have no other choice), but in the meantime, I'll look at both/all sides.
https://www.americanbar.org/groups/..._conduct/rule_3_3_candor_toward_the_tribunal/

(Thank you, @AugustWest for that resource.)

These attorneys have already made false allegations about evidence. They've also leaked the crime scene photos to the public. I'll admit I'm surprised they haven't been sanctioned, but Indiana seems to do things differently.

After they leaked the photos, I stopped believing anything they said. I prefer to wait until the trial where they are under the supervision of a judge.

 

[TTF14]

DBM.

 

[TTF14]

Interesting article while we wait…

Google announces it will revoke access to location history, effectively blocking geofence warrants

Geofence warrants, while beneficial in solving cold cases, faced controversy due to privacy concerns, as the warrants collected data from anyone near a crime scene

www.police1.com

That is not a good thing. Geofencing is a good crimefighting tool. IMO

Moo

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I have posted that interview with Anna, Abby's Mom recently and in it she says LE told her 50+ people were in and about the trails area that day. It may have been that the group Kelsei saw just went on a different trail and the opposite direction the girls did. MO

There might have been that many people at the trail throughout the day all totaled.
I do not think there were 50 people there at the time the girls were accosted. I never thought that’s what LE meant when they told Anna that.

Opinion

 

[Megnut]

Yes, over what span of time? Noon to five, for example, would include anyone leaving by 1:45 and anyone arriving after 2:15 in addition to the few who were there between 1:45 and 2:15.

Jmo

 

[steeltowngirl]

That is not a good thing. Geofencing is a good crimefighting tool. IMO

Moo

It is. But apparently a United States District Court ruled that geofence warrants are unconstitutional.

Geofence warrant was unconstitutional - Forensic Resources

On Mar. 4, 2022, a federal judge ruled that use of geofence data in a Virginia case violated the Fourth Amendment. The decision in US v. Chatrie is available here. A geofence is law enforcement use of Google location data to find people who were near a crime scene. Geofence searches have been...

forensicresources.org

As crime-solving goes hi-tech, public defenders scramble to keep up

National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers helps public defenders navigate new technologies used against their clients

www.theguardian.com

 

[grannygates]

I’ve done a bit of reading on the geofencing issue re: fourth amendment and it was my understanding that the “work-around” seemed to be if the LE was able to pin-point a smaller time frame (noon-5pm) and a small area around the crime scene (60-100m in this case) to reduce the number of innocent people that would be caught in the fence. The concern is if you did a huge area like the whole town of Delphi, you have 99% innocent people who could be swept up in being falsely accused of a crime they never committed because they were nearby a crime scene. Hmm.

The Chatrie motion to suppress for the geofencing was denied (unless there is more after this one?) The issues written by the court appear to be that the probable cause was too broad (I wonder what this court would feel about the blue jacket standard in this case), the geofenced area was too large (300m) considering it was a highly populated urban area and the investigator didn’t follow the Google protocol properly. It’s a good read if you want to learn more about the geofencing. Google had their own people there and there’s a huge section explaining on how it works and how accurate it is etc.

This is the conclusion paragraph of that case:

Despite the Court finding good faith here, the Court nonetheless strongly cautions that this exception may not carry the day in the future. This Court will not simply rubber stamp geofence warrants. If the Government is to continue to employ these warrants, it must take care to establish particularized probable cause. As the legal landscape confronts newly developed technology and further illuminates Fourth Amendment rights in the face of geofence practices, future geofence warrants may require additional efforts to seek court approval in between Steps, or to limit the geographic and temporal information sought. But in light of the complex legal issues that lead to this Court's conclusion, the Court cannot say that Det. Hylton's reliance on the
62

Case 3:19-cr-00130-MHL Document 220 Filed 03/03/22 Page 63 of 63 PageID# 3323
Geofence Warrant was objectively unreasonable. Accordingly, the Leon good faith exception applies, and the Cowt will deny Chatrie's motion to suppress evidence obtained as a result of the Geofence Warrant.
For the foregoing reasons, the Court will deny the Motion to Suppress. (ECF No. 29.) An appropriate Order shall issue.

I don’t for a minute think that Google is ending their participation with geofencing warrants because of the fourth amendment or anything to do with user privacy. Geofencing warrants accounts for 25% of their warrants and increase every year. This is turning into a big department of their company that is all loss and no revenue. Their ad revenue aka tracking everything you do on your phone accounts for something like 84% of their total revenue (per this filing).

My cynical two cents.

https://www.nacdl.org/getattachment/dc48746c-32f2-44d7-91c1-a32e3d153811/us-v-chatrieruling.pdf

 

[grannygates]

One paragraph I found interesting was regarding the “confidence levels”. We heard about this in the 4th Franks back and forth regarding AT&T providing confidence levels on the live ping locations. This says that the 3 phones found within the 60-100m area would be given a confidence level, to suggest whether they were likely to be within that geo-area, close to, or 5,000 meters away like geo-expert Nick says because geofencing isn’t real. MOO

 

[TTF14]

One paragraph I found interesting was regarding the “confidence levels”. We heard about this in the 4th Franks back and forth regarding AT&T providing confidence levels on the live ping locations. This says that the 3 phones found within the 60-100m area would be given a confidence level, to suggest whether they were likely to be within that geo-area, close to, or 5,000 meters away like geo-expert Nick says because geofencing isn’t real. MOO

View attachment 521322

I think there are a lot of people following this case who are hoping Nick is right and that geofencing isn't real.

IMO MOO

 

[nadia90]

I was trying to find the final number of confessions that ra has made to committing these murders. Can someone point me to that information? Thank you!

 

[TTF14]

I was trying to find the final number of confessions that ra has made to committing these murders. Can someone point me to that information? Thank you!

The trial is scheduled for October. We will find out then unless it’s mentioned this week in the hearings.

 

[grannygates]

Speaking of the hearings, I’m only able to find a motion to suppress statements with respect to the notes taken by trustee inmates. Is there another one regarding phone calls or am I lost ?

2024 4/11 Allen Motion.pdf.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[nadia90]

The trial is scheduled for October. We will find out then unless it’s mentioned this week in the hearings.

TT thanks for the reply.

Does Anyone remember the actual number of times ra has confessed to the slaughter of these innocent young girls?

 

[mrjitty]

These attorneys have already made false allegations about evidence. They've also leaked the crime scene photos to the public. I'll admit I'm surprised they haven't been sanctioned, but Indiana seems to do things differently.

After they leaked the photos, I stopped believing anything they said. I prefer to wait until the trial where they are under the supervision of a judge.

Baldwin lied to the Judges face in the infamous chambers hearing when he deceived her about MWs real involvement.

that stuck with me. you don’t do that if you want to be believed by the Judge ever again. which is very bad for your client.

ETA. he ‘forgot’ to mention that the old friend who dropped by and stole the photos was actually a ‘trusted consultant’ who worked on the case.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

Baldwin lied to the Judges face in the infamous chambers hearing when he deceived her about MWs real involvement.

that stuck with me. you don’t do that if you want to be believed by the Judge ever again. which is very bad for your client.

MOO

What do you mean? What did he say

Eta: I see the edit now. I’m not familiar but but I will link the transcript for posterity sake.

https://www.scribd.com/document/685980237/In-Chambers-Transcript-of-Richard-Allen-Attorneys

 

[grannygates]

TT thanks for the reply.

Does Anyone remember the actual number of times ra has confessed to the slaughter of these innocent young girls?

We don’t know any details. You’ll have to read the court filings regarding the confessions to learn about what is available to the public. I’ve linked one above if you have an interest in reading.