UK- Major incident declared in Southport after multiple stabbings, 29 July 2024

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The only details released about the suspect by police described him as a 17-year-old from the village of Banks in Lancashire who was born in Cardiff.

RSBM.

There has been a little bit about his ethnic background reported as well.

"The BBC understands the teenager, who cannot be named for legal reasons, moved to the Southport area in 2013. His parents are from Rwanda and he has an older brother also born in Cardiff.

Helen, a neighbour of the family while they lived in Cardiff, has spoken of her shock, and said the family had come from Rwanda."

Southport stabbings - what we know so far about knife attack
 
Who would target innocent little kids? A young man obsessed with little girls and/or Taylor Swift continues to be my theory.

I think he knew about the event not because it randomly appeared on his social media feed, but because he notices where little girls are in his area.

I think he hated is own obsessions so the objects of his fantasies had to be punished.

Armchair analysis, worth what you paid for it.

I'm unfamiliar with how things work in UK during an investigation - will info be released to the public or do they hold it all until trial??

jmo
I think it was probably less specific. He wanted a soft target with maximum casualties, so he chose an event he knew was most likely to be attended by young kids, mainly girls (not that it matters, really, at that age, a kid can't fight off an armed adult) and young women parents and teachers.

He didn't want somewhere where he might meet a man his own size, or someone trained to take down an armed attacker, so no mixed events like you'd get at a more general sports day, and no outdoor public events that might have a uniformed police presence patrolling.

Even so, a survivor was able to flee and get help from a passing man who was able to help to detain him.

MOO
 
Who would target innocent little kids? A young man obsessed with little girls and/or Taylor Swift continues to be my theory.

I think he knew about the event not because it randomly appeared on his social media feed, but because he notices where little girls are in his area.

I think he hated is own obsessions so the objects of his fantasies had to be punished.

Armchair analysis, worth what you paid for it.

I'm unfamiliar with how things work in UK during an investigation - will info be released to the public or do they hold it all until trial??

jmo


If the police use the full 96 hour questioning time, then they have until Friday ( probably midday-ish ) to either
Charge him
Release him
Release with bail

assuming charges will be brought, there will then be a date given for a PTP
( pre trial preparation hearing ) in 3 months time. Plus a tentative trial date, approx 6 months or later.

At that point we wont hear anything further until the PTP, when he will be able to enter a plea.
 
If the police use the full 96 hour questioning time, then they have until Friday ( probably midday-ish ) to either
Charge him
Release him
Release with bail

assuming charges will be brought, there will then be a date given for a PTP
( pre trial preparation hearing ) in 3 months time. Plus a tentative trial date, approx 6 months or later.

At that point we wont hear anything further until the PTP, when he will be able to enter a plea.
Thank you!
 
Unfortunately though I suspect there will likely be a H & S investigation . There are many safeguarding rules around children and settings that children attend. and Parents may well be wanting answers too ?

I'm sure there will be an investigation which will then inform a change in regulations for clubs and settings such as this, but currently there isn't and it's really not unusual to prop a door open in the warm weather. The regulations state that risks must be reasonably identified and managed, no one prior to Monday would have considered an armed man walking into a children's club and doing this- rightly or wrongly but it simply hasn't happened here before like this. Dunblane was obviously in a school and many changes were made to safety regulations and procedures for schools and other ofsted registered settings, Ariana was in a public place which prompted a review of procedures regarding that so its not like things happen followed by a tonne of ignorance and arrogance. Obviously with hindsights its different but we have been fortunate i guess that its not something that would reasonably cross someones mind. The propped open door wasn't even the only access point, whilst it may or may not have made it easier, I doubt anyone would blame two women who risked their own lives to protect these girls and of whom had a tonne of experience working with children between them for this what was an unprecedented event- but I do agree there will likely be a review.
 
If the police use the full 96 hour questioning time, then they have until Friday ( probably midday-ish ) to either
Charge him
Release him
Release with bail

assuming charges will be brought, there will then be a date given for a PTP
( pre trial preparation hearing ) in 3 months time. Plus a tentative trial date, approx 6 months or later.

At that point we wont hear anything further until the PTP, when he will be able to enter a plea.
I really hope he does not qualify for bail.

I don't see how he could, but I didn't see how folks who dismembered someone in New York could, either, and that happened.

MOO
 
I'm sure there will be an investigation which will then inform a change in regulations for clubs and settings such as this, but currently there isn't and it's really not unusual to prop a door open in the warm weather. The regulations state that risks must be reasonably identified and managed, no one prior to Monday would have considered an armed man walking into a children's club and doing this- rightly or wrongly but it simply hasn't happened here before like this. Dunblane was obviously in a school and many changes were made to safety regulations and procedures for schools and other ofsted registered settings, Ariana was in a public place which prompted a review of procedures regarding that so its not like things happen followed by a tonne of ignorance and arrogance. Obviously with hindsights its different but we have been fortunate i guess that its not something that would reasonably cross someones mind. The propped open door wasn't even the only access point, whilst it may or may not have made it easier, I doubt anyone would blame two women who risked their own lives to protect these girls and of whom had a tonne of experience working with children between them for this what was an unprecedented event- but I do agree there will likely be a review.
Also, this was possibly a one off event, with the organisers hiring the studio space. My yoga studio does this. A special event with people running it who aren't the usual yoga teachers, doing a meditation workshop or sound healing workshop or whatever.

This seems like the same kind of thing. A school holiday event that isn't part of the regular routine of whatever goes on in that studio week in week out - mums and bubs yoga, seniors aerobics, whatever.

I don't know what the temporary class teachers have to sign. I assume they have to be certified okay to work with kids, know where the emergency exits are, and are possibly under the building's insurance or have their own... But it might be a bit more vague because it's a one off.

MOO
 

''Mother of victim condemns violence​

The mother of one of the young girls killed in Monday's stabbing attack condemned the violence in Southport last night.
Elsie Dot Stancombe's mother, Jenni, wrote on Facebook last night: "This is the only thing that I will write, but please please stop the violence in Southport tonight.
"The police have been nothing but heroic these last 24 hours and they and we don't need this."
Elsie, seven, Alice Dasilva Aguiar, nine, and Bebe King, six, died in the attack. ''
Elsie Dot Stancombe

Elsie Dot Stancombe

https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https://news.sky.com/story/southport-stabbing-latest-number-of-casualties-after-reports-of-stabbing-13186819?postid=8050701#liveblog-body&t=Mother of victim condemns violence
 
I really hope he does not qualify for bail.

I don't see how he could, but I didn't see how folks who dismembered someone in New York could, either, and that happened.

MOO
Well, the folks in NY aren't charged with dismemberment or murder but with tampering of evidence and concealing a body. Those are still serious crimes, but it's they haven't been charged with murder (yet).

In this case, I think for the perp's safety, he's better off remaining behind bars. (Not that I feel sorry for him, to be clear.)

jmo
 
RSBM.

There has been a little bit about his ethnic background reported as well.

"The BBC understands the teenager, who cannot be named for legal reasons, moved to the Southport area in 2013. His parents are from Rwanda and he has an older brother also born in Cardiff.

Helen, a neighbour of the family while they lived in Cardiff, has spoken of her shock, and said the family had come from Rwanda."

Southport stabbings - what we know so far about knife attack

That related to the first reporting by credible media.
 
I really hope he does not qualify for bail.

I don't see how he could, but I didn't see how folks who dismembered someone in New York could, either, and that happened.

MOO

No I dont think for one minute that he will get bail. I was just posting the full list of what can happen with a suspect , in England and Wales, at the end of the questioning period.
 
Just catching up on this thread. Shocking scenes this morning of the streets of Southport. My family member who lives in Southport told me her friend saw around 60 thugs getting off the train at Meols Cop station yesterday, to quote, "ready for action".

Meols Cop station is the stop just before the main Southport one. Southport station has a ticket barrier and a manned ticket office. Meols Cop has no ticket office or barrier and you can just get off the train and walk away. The trains that come from that direction come from Manchester and there's one an hour, to my knowledge. So it definitely seems planned to me.

There is also a separate trainline with trains coming in from Liverpool, every 20 minutes, and you could get off the stop before Southport on that train (Birkdale) and walk into town. All you'd have to contend with would be a ticket collector on the platform asking to see tickets.

.
 
I totally agree. I think the perpetrator is the only one at fault ,not the fact that the adults left a door open.
Jeez in my small town in Australia our school “fence” is less than a metre high with multiple unmonitored gates, at least 8 entry points I can think of (off the top of my head), only two of which lock, and the community library is also on the grounds, so open to the public pretty much any time.

Blaming the door being open/unlocked is just absurd - I understand wanting to minimise hazards and when small children are involved (toddlers-4 year olds probably) I’d prefer a closed/locked door to avoid escapees, but the thought of my almost 6 year old having to exist in a world inside only locked buildings and behind fences just makes me feel so desperately sad.

After the Bondi junction attack (similar in a lot of ways to this one) a few things came out about the attacker, unmedicated schizophrenia for one, and I wonder whether similar facts will come out about this person too. Some people do awful things regardless of course, I just have a lot of feelings about that attack and this is just as horrific and appears to be just as targeted at women and children, if not more so.

*** Also big disclaimer: In no way do I think schizophrenia or any mental illness is solely to blame for attacks like this, nor do I believe that every sufferer of schizophrenia/psychosis/Mental ill health is likely to be violent, or capable of violence like this. It is just one aspect that needs to be considered. ***

I know it probably violates 100 human rights principles and privacy laws but my god, if I suffered from an illness that increased my risk of developing psychosis or delusions that may invoke me to respond by harming others, I’d give anything to be permanently medicated for that illness despite any side effect. I suffer from a few MH conditions and ADHD, I deeply understand how much it sucks to go through the nausea, weight gain/loss, fatigue, brain fog, sleeplessness, loss of libido and a bevy of other side effects that come with some of the medications I’m on. What I do believe is that if you do suffer severely from one of these conditions, especially if you’ve proven violent tendencies, to live in the community unsupervised you should be assessed by a psychiatrist maybe quarterly, and appropriately medicated on a permanent basis. (And if not, choose to live in some kind of supervised setting.)
I know I’d rather have an injection a few times a year or take a tablet every day with monitoring, than to come out of a psychotic episode and find I’d inflicted life changing harm upon someone else.
We can do it with hormonal birth control (one injection of Depo provera lasts 3 months for example) so surely something could be developed for illnesses like this.
It is cruel and discriminatory and all of those things, but is it more or less cruel than a 6 year old being slaughtered at a f*ing dance class?
Is it more or less cruel than the image of a young mother in a shopping center desperately shoving her bleeding infant daughter into the arms of a stranger for help as she dies of her own stab wounds, not knowing her baby would survive?

People deserve to live in a society that is safe to the extent we can make it so, and the criminal/legal system is no use until something terrible happens. It’s not like it acts as a deterrent, especially not if some kind of psychosis or delusion is at play.
Governments need to divert serious funds to MH support and massively increase the accessibility of professionals and inpatient facilities, but in the meantime, surely some kind of solution to lessening the amount of random, extremely violent attacks undertaken by people with serious issues living totally unchecked in the community just has to be looked at doesn’t it?? Locking a door on a hot day isn’t going to cut it.

IMO etc of course
 
From the link:

"Dozens of residents were outside Southport mosque with brushes and shovels on Wednesday morning, after violent protests that saw bricks, stones and bottles thrown at police and cars set alight.

Norman Wallis, chief executive of Southport Pleasureland, said people had travelled from out of town to wreak havoc, leaving locals to clean up the mess."

So ignorant, hateful outsiders descend on a town in pain to wreak havoc on innocent people, businesses, and houses of worship, leaving a community in shock the additional burdens of clean-up, fear, and, frankly, betrayal. In their time of need, other folks came along to cause more pain.

All because of false information that was believed.

jmo
 

''Mother of victim condemns violence​

The mother of one of the young girls killed in Monday's stabbing attack condemned the violence in Southport last night.
Elsie Dot Stancombe's mother, Jenni, wrote on Facebook last night: "This is the only thing that I will write, but please please stop the violence in Southport tonight.
"The police have been nothing but heroic these last 24 hours and they and we don't need this."
Elsie, seven, Alice Dasilva Aguiar, nine, and Bebe King, six, died in the attack. ''
Elsie Dot Stancombe

Elsie Dot Stancombe

https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=https://news.sky.com/story/southport-stabbing-latest-number-of-casualties-after-reports-of-stabbing-13186819?postid=8050701#liveblog-body&t=Mother of victim condemns violence
I cannot look at pictures of this beautiful little girl Elsie, without it breaking my heart.

How could anyone even think of harmimg her? It truly beggars belief.
 

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