UK- Major incident declared in Southport after multiple stabbings, 29 July 2024

[Alyce]

The court image gives an impression of his hair being very dishevelled too. I suspect he's going to go down the diminished route and seek an indefinite hospital order, which is in reality even grimmer than prison.

There's not many placed that can hold such dangerous youths, youth secure detention is more like secure children's homes rather than prison.

I got the impression, from Judge’s remark in Crown Court, that he may be moved next week, soon as he turns 18.

 

[bobbymkii]

I got the impression, from Judge’s remark in Crown Court, that he may be moved next week, soon as he turns 18.

Is that what was meant by the word "majority" ? I've never heard that as a term for someone becoming of age.

 

[Angelcat13]

I disagree. The police shouldn't have to name under 18s because people can't control themselves. People need to stop being morons.

From the US so I don’t know how the UK law reads. Does the law state that minors (under 18 y/o) aren’t “named” (as in a legal name) or that they aren’t “identified” (as in any characteristics - where they live, family, immigration status, religion, etc)? Are they allowed to be named if they are charged as an adult (is this done in the UK)?

If the law is that minors cannot be named, then the law must be followed. If the people and/or government feel that this law is no longer in the best interest of society - especially with the increasing numbers of incidents involving youthful offenders and the increasing level of some of the violence - then changes to the law may need to be considered.

If the law doesn’t preclude providing characteristics” of the offender, then maybe providing those characteristics should be considered so the people have FACTS, not rumors.

 

[Alyce]

Is that what was meant by the word "majority" ? I've never heard that as a term for someone becoming of age.

Yes, that’s how I read it…. Rather unusual wording though.

 

[Skigh]

Is that what was meant by the word "majority" ? I've never heard that as a term for someone becoming of age.

It is quite an old fashioned phrase ,but I have heard it used in the past.

 

[Angelcat13]

I'm starting to think that perhaps someone else was right earlier on and that it was about taylor swift?

I know many people may not see Taylor Swift as a “victim” in this - after all, she wasn’t there, she is rich and world-famous, etc. But she is truly human and had a soft heart and I do believe she is also a victim here and I feel for her, too. She now tragically joins Jason Aldean and Ariana Grande in a “club” no one wants to belong to.

 

[Angelcat13]

I also saw it on WS before it was removed

What's that old saying?
Something like ' if you don't use your head... others will (use it) '

Excellent saying! Never heard it…but I love it!

 

[Dotta]

"Arguing against naming the teenage defendant,
the prosecution said he had an
'autism spectrum disorder diagnosis',
and had been
'unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time'.

None of the families of either the victims or
the defendant were in court."

Teen, 17, accused of Southport murders named

Axel Rudakubana appeared at Liverpool Crown Court where a judge ruled his identity could be made public.

www.bbc.com

 

[QB2022]

I got the impression, from Judge’s remark in Crown Court, that he may be moved next week, soon as he turns 18.

That would make sense. He far outweighs what youth provisions are set up for.

From the US so I don’t know how the UK law reads. Does the law state that minors (under 18 y/o) aren’t “named” (as in a legal name) or that they aren’t “identified” (as in any characteristics - where they live, family, immigration status, religion, etc)? Are they allowed to be named if they are charged as an adult (is this done in the UK)?

If the law is that minors cannot be named, then the law must be followed. If the people and/or government feel that this law is no longer in the best interest of society - especially with the increasing numbers of incidents involving youthful offenders and the increasing level of some of the violence - then changes to the law may need to be considered.

If the law doesn’t preclude providing characteristics” of the offender, then maybe providing those characteristics should be considered so the people have FACTS, not rumors.

"The identity of a child aged between 10 and 17 charged with a crime will not be disclosed outside the court.

Those permitted inside the court include the usual participants in cases heard in court; ranging from officers of the court, to the parties, parents and guardians, and bona fide members of the press.

Reporting restrictions include not revealing the name, home address or school of any young person concerned in the proceedings, or particulars – including photographs - which may make identifying them likely.

They will remain anonymous throughout proceedings but these restrictions can be challenged – usually by the media – after proceedings have ended."

Youth crime | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

But I believe individual decisions can be made on a balance of public interest vs harm to the child, which is what has happened here. In 6 days time he would be 18 anyway and restrictions dropped, 6 days of misinformation has the potential to escalate riots. Its almost unprecedented, I can't think of a single other case where the decision has been made but equally, I don't know any so close to 18. One wonders if he acted pre-turning 18 deliberately to get lighter treatment?

Charging children in the UK at all is a last resort, we don't seal records at 18 and once they have a record they have a record. Therefore they try and avoid criminalising children in the first place

 

[Officer Dibble]

"Two children who were injured in a knife attack in Southport on Monday have left hospital, a trust has said."

"The hospital said the other five children in its care, including one recently transferred from Aintree University Hospital, were in a stable condition."

Two children hurt in Southport knife attack leave hospital

Alder Hey Children's Hosptial says it is "delighted" two of the children involved had been discharged.

www.bbc.com

thanks for that update

 

[Rikissa]

"Southport stabbing suspect, 17,
is named for the first time as he appears in court charged with murdering three little girls at Taylor Swift-themed dance class
and harming 10 others with a
'curved kitchen knife'.

View attachment 521889

In a bid to quell tensions - after more riots broke out in
London, Manchester Hartlepool, and Aldershot - Judge Menary revealed Rudakubana's identity.

I wonder how much the isolation during the Covid-19 has affected him, he must have been 14 in 2020. To cover the face, is it for hiding his identity, or because of Covid fear? Did he use a face mask regularily during the last couple of years, or just the day of the attack?

As for revealing his identity, I doubt it wouldn't have changed much for those EDL supporters involved in the rioting in Southport or in London, their opinion about his rights to be ib the UK are the same.

 

[Angelcat13]

That would make sense. He far outweighs what youth provisions are set up for.

"The identity of a child aged between 10 and 17 charged with a crime will not be disclosed outside the court.

Those permitted inside the court include the usual participants in cases heard in court; ranging from officers of the court, to the parties, parents and guardians, and bona fide members of the press.

Reporting restrictions include not revealing the name, home address or school of any young person concerned in the proceedings, or particulars – including photographs - which may make identifying them likely.

They will remain anonymous throughout proceedings but these restrictions can be challenged – usually by the media – after proceedings have ended."

Youth crime | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

But I believe individual decisions can be made on a balance of public interest vs harm to the child, which is what has happened here. In 6 days time he would be 18 anyway and restrictions dropped, 6 days of misinformation has the potential to escalate riots. Its almost unprecedented, I can't think of a single other case where the decision has been made but equally, I don't know any so close to 18. One wonders if he acted pre-turning 18 deliberately to get lighter treatment?

Charging children in the UK at all is a last resort, we don't seal records at 18 and once they have a record they have a record. Therefore they try and avoid criminalising children in the first place

Thanks for the info!

 

[seasideForest]

But who targets 8 yr old little girls? What could she possibly have done to him?

There may be no reason that anybody thinking rationally - like you and I and presumably most people on this forum - could begin to understand.

In Dunblane (very famous case in the UK) Hamilton killed 5 and 6 yo children. They hadn't done anything to him. He had a chip on his shoulder about a number of things...
Or as the headmaster of Dunblane Primary School said "Evil visited us today. We don't know why." (or very similar wording.) MOO because I don't want to have to look for the quote.

Of course there was an enquiry and some reasons found, but still nothing that wouldn't have you shaking your head in disbelief. MOO

 

[seasideForest]

I don’t believe naming him would have made a single bit of difference to the mindless yobs who are rioting. And the law/court decisions shouldn’t be driven by appeasing racist rioters.

I totally agree with both points.
JMO

 

[crespo29]

I wonder how much the isolation during the Covid-19 has affected him, he must have been 14 in 2020. To cover the face, is it for hiding his identity, or because of Covid fear? Did he use a face mask regularily during the last couple of years, or just the day of the attack?

As for revealing his identity, I doubt it wouldn't have changed much for those EDL supporters involved in the rioting in Southport or in London, their opinion about his rights to be ib the UK are the same.

I think by revealing his identity would have probably stopped the Southport Mosque being attacked. Fake news gave an Islamic name and suggested he was an illegal migrant. I think this caused the Mosque attack.

 

[Yellowbelly]

"Arguing against naming the teenage defendant,
the prosecution said he had an
'autism spectrum disorder diagnosis',
and had been
'unwilling to leave the house and communicate with family for a period of time'.

None of the families of either the victims or
the defendant were in court."

Teen, 17, accused of Southport murders named

Axel Rudakubana appeared at Liverpool Crown Court where a judge ruled his identity could be made public.

www.bbc.com

So the Crown argued against disclosure. I can't think the defense would have been in favour either. Interesting that the judge sided with the media against both sets of barristers.

 

[dotr]

There may be no reason that anybody thinking rationally - like you and I and presumably most people on this forum - could begin to understand.

In Dunblane (very famous case in the UK) Hamilton killed 5 and 6 yo children. They hadn't done anything to him. He had a chip on his shoulder about a number of things...
Or as the headmaster of Dunblane Primary School said "Evil visited us today. We don't know why." (or very similar wording.) MOO because I don't want to have to look for the quote.

Of course there was an enquiry and some reasons found, but still nothing that wouldn't have you shaking your head in disbelief. MOO

fwiw..

Dunblane 25 years on – anger and grief still raw in town scarred by school shooting

Families still fighting for gun control around world, finds Colin Drury. But they also remain aghast that Boris Johnson wrote column after atrocity saying UK ban would be like a ‘nanny confiscating toys’

www.independent.co.uk

“Evil visited us,” headteacher Ron Taylor told reporters in the immediate aftermath. “And we don’t know why. We don’t understand it.”

 

[QB2022]

I can't help think about my own autistic child and all the autistic children I work with at work, I get both a personal experience and professional career in the field. We are experiencing an awful lot of issues that when children are given an autism diagnosis it almost closes all the doors to support. Everything becomes "It is because they are autistic" and therefore don't need camhs/mental health support etc. Being autistic doesn't make someone a killer, not in the slightest but I can't help but wonder if there were serious warning signs or support sought for him and the autism diagnosis posed a barrier.

 

[BaronessWombat]

I think I've only ever heard majority used in Agatha Cristie novels but it's basically when someone ceases to be a minor. (Minor/major) Age of majority - Wikipedia

 

[Dotta]

"We've now received a couple more court sketches of Rudakubana in court today.





'High, visible presence'
on Southport's streets,
police say.

'People living in Southport will now be used to seeing a highly visible police presence on their streets.
I hope that presence is reassuring, and I would ask anyone with concerns to speak to our officers'.

Police given more stop and search powers in Southport.

A section 60 order,
which gives police enhanced powers to stop and search
and is designed to minimize violence,
has been put in place in Southport this evening."

Southport stabbing latest: Suspect named as Axel Muganwa Rudakubana as Starmer announces new 'capability' to curb riots

The person accused of murdering three girls is Axel Muganwa Rudakubana, born 7 August 2006.

www.bbc.com