Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #190

[Megnut]

It's a beautiful day today where I live, and AW and LG are on my mind. It's just so profoundly sad and unfair and not okay that their lives are on true crime site and not somewhere in the real world living the lives that never should have been ripped from them.

It's a real gift from the families, who've lost so much, to share photos of AW and LG so we can see them full of life.

JMO

 

[grannygates]

Well the judge I am sure knows there are serrated box cutters. So his confession makes sense when he likely had a serrated one.

IMO

Sorry - I think that you’re misunderstanding my post. My comment is about lawyers keeping an accurate court record.

 

[Ravenmoon]

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iPhone keeps turning on and off.

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Libby had an iPhone that 6.
Apparently, they can, and sometimes do turn off and on by themselves.

9 Effective Ways to Fix iPhone Keeps Turning On and Off

 

[Ravenmoon]

Thank you.
I do not consider her credible. MOO.
If a “serrated edge” is referenced in the autopsy report — which I don’t think has been released — then I’ll be interested in how a box cutter compares.
As you and others have noted, not having a stream of the hearings is problematic when discussing testimony.

JMO IMO ETC

I don't find her to be an expert in Odinism either. She has no experience with it and admitted that under oath.

EBM to add that there are box cutters that have serrated edges.

 

[Salah11]

Also if a serrated blade is not common place in a box cutter the fact that RA knew a serrated blade had been used would add credibility to his confession.

IMHO

 

[Ravenmoon]

Just curious:

Do we all agree that the girls were killed where they were found?

Also , can we put the "rune" on the tree rumor to rest?

 

[susane7]

Just curious:

Do we all agree that the girls were killed where they were found?

Also , can we put the "rune" on the tree rumor to rest?

Absolutely. I really don't understand why people think it's so unlikely that one guy killed the girls because some fantasy or SA that went wrong and dragged them or one one them for a little feet and at the same time think it's likely they were kidnapped by a gang, transported for another location, murdered, then for some reason brought their bodies for the last place they were seen and while cops, family and volunteers were searching for them.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Absolutely. I really don't understand why people think it's so unlikely that one guy killed the girls because some fantasy or SA that went wrong and dragged them or one one them for a little feet and at the same time think it's likely they were kidnapped by a gang, transported for another location, murdered, then for some reason brought their bodies for the last place they were seen and while cops, family and volunteers were searching for them.

Right?

Well, we know now that poor Libby and her own blood marked that tree.

It's also clear that both girls murders happened where their bodies were found.

To me, that can show that there were no Odinists or ritualistic killings.

Then the "expert" claimed that a ceremonial knife was used.

It looks like it was actually a much less extravagant weapon - a box cutter with a serrated edge.

JMO - I think ( seriously my theory, not proven) that RA had been watching Libby for a while. He probably saw her in his store, at the Pizza place and at the grill and chill were Kelsi worked. I think that he had an obsession with her. She was vivacious, pretty and full of life. She captivated him.

A&L were known to tease each other about guys when out in public saying " oh, look . there's your boyfriend"( obviously not verbatim).

I wonder if the girls had noticed him watching at different times and this statement was made, maybe RA heard? In his own, twisted mind, could this have been the let down, the ultimate disrespect?

Knowing school was out that day and potentially knowing LG'S stomping ground, could he have decided that he was going to end his torment that day if she crossed his path?

I guess we will know ( I hope)at trial, but for now, this is my theory.

AJMO

 

[ClearAhead]

Absolutely. I really don't understand why people think it's so unlikely that one guy killed the girls because some fantasy or SA that went wrong and dragged them or one one them for a little feet and at the same time think it's likely they were kidnapped by a gang, transported for another location, murdered, then for some reason brought their bodies for the last place they were seen and while cops, family and volunteers were searching for them.

It almost appears the D have rounded up and recycled every single debatable topic that was ever talked about on SM surrounding this case.

The moving of the bodies, then brought back theory sprung to life to attempt to account for why the searchers didn’t immediately find the bodies that evening - failing to consider it was very dark, area was treacherous, dangerous terrain and the fact the search was mainly focused on the trails, in addition to the town, routes walking home etc.

So now it’s used once again, but this time in an attempt to extend or distort the timeline.

But now, finally, that theory holds absolutely no merit considering the extent of blood evidence.

MOO and JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

Just curious:

Do we all agree that the girls were killed where they were found?

Also , can we put the "rune" on the tree rumor to rest?

Yes--I always believed the girls were killed where they were found.

YES- I never believed it was a so called "rune" so never went with that rumor to begin with.

 

[photographer4]

We don't where exactly Abby was when she was attached. But it's possible that Libby ran to her, to try to save her, protect her and that's how blood got on her face.

It's all so terrifying and tragic. Whatever nightmares we can conjure won't be nightmare enough.

JMO

I don’t even want to try to picture any of this. The jury and the loved ones, I can’t imagine how they’re going to be able to get through whatever they learn.

 

[photographer4]

I'm thinking he planned to use the box cutter (if that indeed was the weapon).

Using a gun vs. using a knife seems so different - it really would take a different state of mind, I am guessing, as a knife is so much more intimate and tactile. It takes mental plus physical determination to make the cut, imo.

I think he went there ready for it, at least for Libby. The look on BG's face in the bridge, to me, looks determined.

Seems like he treated Abby differently and perhaps he wasn't prepared for her at all. She seems to have been killed perhaps more quickly and, in his mind, more peacefully???

jmo

If the first franks is correct, Abby was slow to leave this world based on the wound she had. I think it was also said in last weeks hearing that she had one small cut or nick. No injury is good obviously. But I feel like if LG had three neck wounds, she likely went down and out quickly. I’m so sorry to describe it this way or at all! I am trying to be delicate but there seems no nice way to say that two kids were savaged and killed on a trail that day.

 

[sunshineray]

Even before speaking with police though, it is quite likely that the girls who saw someone on the trail that day conferred with eachother, and possibly their parents and others BEFORE they contacted LE. So according to the research I've done on the issue of witness reliability and accuracy, it seems that just the act of discussing what they saw with eachother could easily have impacted their statements to police. EG:

If the kid were walking and noticed BG, one may have said to the others at the time something like (and this is ONLY an example, so do NOT take as fact pls):
1. Omg did you see that guy! He just STARED at me!
2. What was with the face covering?
3. And why the need for a hat? Wait, are you sure he was wearing a Face covering?
1. Right? That covering just made those eyes creepier!! I saw a hat, it was brown.
3. No it was green!
1. Oh! It must have been green, you're right!

So now they've discussed it and formed their thoughts collectively and then the murders happen and now they're really talking to one another and parents and others (likely) about it before calling LE. And now somehow someone thinks he had blue eyes, someone else thinks brown. Someone thinks he didn't have a hat, but someone thinks he did - that person doesn't want to seem unreliable so they just agree that he did.

Then they talk to police... if police say:
Your friend thinks the guy wore a green hat is that right?

The witness, who wants to be helpful, might just agree with this because its been suggested to them. By the cop, by the friends etc... even if they aren't 100% sure of the fact themselves.

Ideally, a witness sees an event and does not talk to anyone before writing down what they saw and giving an interview to police to get it recorded. I'm not saying this happened here, but I'd really like to know what the events were that lead to the kids calling LE to report what they'd seen - who they talked to, when, how long before they gave statements etc. How similar were their statements? Where did they differ?

It is just an interesting topic to me considering that witness statements are a major factor in wrongful imprisonment.... imo.

I don't find it such an interesting topic but a very contrary proposition at viewing life. People do not their lives in bubbles, they interact with each other. I really do not see your point. You're implying that NO witness EVER who calls LE and says, I was there, this is what I saw...can be trusted. Why? Because they interact with other people in the course of their life.

I say let the jury decide if they believe what they testify or not. It's also up to the lawyers on both sides to cross examine witnesses to test the veracity of what they say. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Deleted by me - we use it to show we deleted our own post vs a mod having done so.

or changed our minds at wanting to post something having already brought up the reply box and typed in it

 

[nadia90]

IMO this only begs to differ if he came up with those details entirely on his own without any help (intentional or not) from LE / investigators / anyone in the prison / the courts / disclosure provided by his lawyers etc.

I'd give them far more weight if he could have had NO other way to come up with such details and / or had given these confessions BEFORE he was arrested.

Very very interesting takes in this thread for sure!

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

Just curious:

Do we all agree that the girls were killed where they were found?

Also , can we put the "rune" on the tree rumor to rest?

Yes

Yes. By the same token, though: They found a terrible crime scene. I’m glad they explored a bunch of possibilities. No one says they were deterred from investigating or told to drop it. It seems to be sour grapes that there wasn’t the evidence to support their favorite suspect being charged.

Also: I won’t be surprised if evidence indicates Richard Allen acted alone.

JMO IMO ETC

 

[sunshineray]

It appears according to testimony during the hearings that “someone” posted pictures to his FB mimicking the crime scene that “only the killer would know.” JMHO

Can you please provide a link to this. TIA

 

[sunshineray]

IMO this only begs to differ if he came up with those details entirely on his own without any help (intentional or not) from LE / investigators / anyone in the prison / the courts / disclosure provided by his lawyers etc.

I'd give them far more weight if he could have had NO other way to come up with such details and / or had given these confessions BEFORE he was arrested.

Why should we not believe him? Over 100+ confessions and incriminating statements. When does logic come into play...after 25? After 50? When?

 

[sunshineray]

It appears according to testimony during the hearings that “someone” posted pictures to his FB mimicking the crime scene that “only the killer would know.” JMHO

Can you please provide a link to this information? And who's testimony are you referencing?

 

[MiniMoo]

Am I right in understanding that the only piece of clothing on Abby that wasn't her own really was the hoodie.

Anyone else have anything different from that.