IA IA - Elizabeth Collins & Lyric Cook - Found Deceased - Evansdale - 13 Jul 2012 #39

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I lived in the area when these young girls, babies really 8 and 10, went missing. It was a horrible and emotional time. My heart broke for Lyric's grandmother and I can picture all the posters and ribbons even today.

Lyric was much more grown up acting than Lizzie, or so it seemed, and Lyric's parents caused blame to automatically focus their way with their drug charges. I don't believe it was a drug related crime, I believe it was a SO predator.

There was a lot of construction going on in that area at the time (transient workers). Meyers Park had a close by straight shot to the interstate so I can see how they were grabbed and ended up North about 20 miles.

What makes me think it might be a local is the very isolated location their remains were found. Not public at all, even gated off. A stranger to the area would never know it existed it was so off of the beaten path. IMO

Hard to believe it's been 12 years without resolution and I hope this documentary will bring some much longed for and needed answers.

#Justice4Lizzy&Lyric

JMO
agree, local. Because the area they were found was so remote and required special knowledge to get to. I have never thought it was a transient. I hope one day this one is solved.
 
I lived in the area when these young girls, babies really 8 and 10, went missing. It was a horrible and emotional time. My heart broke for Lyric's grandmother and I can picture all the posters and ribbons even today.

Lyric was much more grown up acting than Lizzie, or so it seemed, and Lyric's parents caused blame to automatically focus their way with their drug charges. I don't believe it was a drug related crime, I believe it was a SO predator.

There was a lot of construction going on in that area at the time (transient workers). Meyers Park had a close by straight shot to the interstate so I can see how they were grabbed and ended up North about 20 miles.

What makes me think it might be a local is the very isolated location their remains were found. Not public at all, even gated off. A stranger to the area would never know it existed it was so off of the beaten path. IMO

Hard to believe it's been 12 years without resolution and I hope this documentary will bring some much longed for and needed answers.

#Justice4Lizzy&Lyric

JMO
This one hit close to home for me... I was at the water park that day, stopped at the casino too for a bit. And the only reason I know it was that day was because I wouldn't gamble, it was Friday the 13th and I'm just a bit superstitious. I absolutely floors me that this happened so darn close, in the middle of the day, in an area that seems reasonably safe.
 
Sorry for the delay.
Things that got my attention from Taken Together episode #3 (scroll and roll if you plan to watch the documentary later, this is for those who don't have the app)
  • A recap of the Jeffrey Altmayer kidnapping attempts and sexual assaults which spanned the state. Thought to be active as close as Cedar Falls, Iowa. Noted that he released his victims after the assault. He was a prolific child molestor but violence was not known to be part of his MO. He is serving life in prison. DCI would not comment in regard to whether he is a suspect or has been cleared.
  • A recap of Delphi and the similarities to Evansdale. The two are not believed to be related, and an arrest was made in 2022 (Richard Allen).
  • BIG circle back to Klunder. Reiteration of the statistical probability of his involvement of dual abductions.
  • Kent Smock (former Evansdale police chief) is pretty resolute in his belief that it's not Klunder but he can't share why.
  • They can not place Klunder in Evansdale.
  • Several people voice skepticism with the decision to rule Klunder out, including the Waterloo Police Chief who says he's "uneasy with ruing him out." Cell phone data can be unreliable, if that's what they're using as a determining factor. They seem to be publicly pressuring DCI to come out with their reasoning for believing they're confident with the decision. Filmmaker: If you're saying you believe he was either at home or at work, what you're really saying, to me, is that you don't know where he was."
  • A previously unknown link appears. This seems to come together just before the documentary went to air (or so it seems). MK's friend and/or cellmate, TC, was living in the Evansdale area after being released from prison. TC is also a sex offender. Another man who was in prison with MK & TC due to a drug offense (not a sex offender) states that he was talking on the phone with TC and TC stated that Klunder was with him at his house (or they were together somewhere... it's not clear)in Evansdale. This person went on to say that he actually SAW Klunder in Evansdale, with TC. This would be around the time of the girl's disappearance.
  • The man who was in prison with Klunder and TC mentions that if you're on parole you're not allowed to travel outside of your area without going through an approval process with your parole officer. That alone could be reason to leave your cell phone at home if you know you could get caught leaving your approved area.
  • Drew attempts to call TC. Speaks with his wife and asks her if TC will talk to him. He does not call Drew back.
  • A surprising conclusion as Drew sets out to find TC and talk to him. TC is now living outside of the area. Drew finds him walking near his home and is recorded talking to him. TC initially pretends to not know Drew or recall the girls. He proceeds to say "I heard it was the Mexican cartel." He alleges the police told him that. Drew says "I think it was Klunder." TC says Klunder is dead. Drew asks if he things MK did it and he changes gears, saying "I think so too. I did five years with him. He's a f-n weirdo." Drew asks if MK came to Evansdale, TC says he has no clue. He says the only contact he had with MK is when he called MK on the phone from his mom's house in Evansdale. Said the police pulled him in for questioning. He denies hanging out with MK or him being in Evansdale. He says he believes Klunder did it because he has "priors" for it. And then he surprisingly offers up "By himself? No." Drew asks who could have helped MK, he remarks there's a lot of weirdos in prison.
  • The documentary concludes with the sorrowful impact the disappearance has had on the family, a graveside gathering, and a plea for tips.
I wish I knew what Kent Smock knows.
 
I lived in the area when these young girls, babies really 8 and 10, went missing. It was a horrible and emotional time. My heart broke for Lyric's grandmother and I can picture all the posters and ribbons even today.

Lyric was much more grown up acting than Lizzie, or so it seemed, and Lyric's parents caused blame to automatically focus their way with their drug charges. I don't believe it was a drug related crime, I believe it was a SO predator.

There was a lot of construction going on in that area at the time (transient workers). Meyers Park had a close by straight shot to the interstate so I can see how they were grabbed and ended up North about 20 miles.

What makes me think it might be a local is the very isolated location their remains were found. Not public at all, even gated off. A stranger to the area would never know it existed it was so off of the beaten path. IMO

Hard to believe it's been 12 years without resolution and I hope this documentary will bring some much longed for and needed answers.

#Justice4Lizzy&Lyric

JMO
I agree that the suspect is someone who knew 7 Bridges Park before the bridge was washed out, before Summer camp programs were cancelled. Someone who knew about the Meyer's Lake party spot before the artificial lake project was completed. 1970s. Lyric's grandmother knew about the party spot. Was it a story passed down through generations - Meyer's Lake parties?

Why did someone ask Lyric and Elizabeth to meet at the leech infested lake, park their bikes, throw a purse over the fence towards the leeches, and why did Lyric do this? What inspired her to take this risk?
 
I agree that the suspect is someone who knew 7 Bridges Park before the bridge was washed out, before Summer camp programs were cancelled. Someone who knew about the Meyer's Lake party spot before the artificial lake project was completed. 1970s. Lyric's grandmother knew about the party spot. Was it a story passed down through generations - Meyer's Lake parties?

Why did someone ask Lyric and Elizabeth to meet at the leech infested lake, park their bikes, throw a purse over the fence towards the leeches, and why did Lyric do this? What inspired her to take this risk?
I admit that I haven’t read everything on this thread, but I am confused about why you say that someone asked Lyric and Elizabeth to meet at the lake, park their bikes and throw her purse over the fence. Is there any evidence that the girls were told to do these things and DID them vs a perpetrator doing these things?
 
I lived in the area when these young girls, babies really 8 and 10, went missing. It was a horrible and emotional time. My heart broke for Lyric's grandmother and I can picture all the posters and ribbons even today.

Lyric was much more grown up acting than Lizzie, or so it seemed, and Lyric's parents caused blame to automatically focus their way with their drug charges. I don't believe it was a drug related crime, I believe it was a SO predator.

There was a lot of construction going on in that area at the time (transient workers). Meyers Park had a close by straight shot to the interstate so I can see how they were grabbed and ended up North about 20 miles.

What makes me think it might be a local is the very isolated location their remains were found. Not public at all, even gated off. A stranger to the area would never know it existed it was so off of the beaten path. IMO

Hard to believe it's been 12 years without resolution and I hope this documentary will bring some much longed for and needed answers.

#Justice4Lizzy&Lyric

JMO
I do hope the documentary brings these Faceless Men to justice.
 
Just watched the series on Max tonight and thought it was very well done. The mother and son that died by suicide by train was something I hadn’t heard before, not to mention her possibly having knowledge of who was involved in this case. Also since the very beginning of this case… the man ( supposed hunter ) that found these girls has always given me weird vibes. He was also in this documentary.
 
Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook-Morrissey were abducted and murdered in 2012.

'Taken Together: Who Killed Lyric and Elizabeth?, a three-part documentary about the unsolved murder of two Evansdale girls, has spent several weeks on Max’s Top 10 series list.​

 
Elizabeth Collins (L) and her cousin Lyric Cook-Morrissey were kidnapped and murdered in July 2012

“They'd gone, evaporated into thin air,” Collins said.

Upon their search, authorities and the family found the bikes, along with Collins’s cell phone inside her purse at the lake’s southeast corner. The area was surrounded by eight foot fences; Elizabeth’s purse was found strewn over one of them.

“When we found the purse over the fence, I started to really get nervous,” Collins said
 
Sorry for the delay.
Things that got my attention from Taken Together episode #3 (scroll and roll if you plan to watch the documentary later, this is for those who don't have the app)
  • A recap of the Jeffrey Altmayer kidnapping attempts and sexual assaults which spanned the state. Thought to be active as close as Cedar Falls, Iowa. Noted that he released his victims after the assault. He was a prolific child molestor but violence was not known to be part of his MO. He is serving life in prison. DCI would not comment in regard to whether he is a suspect or has been cleared.
  • A recap of Delphi and the similarities to Evansdale. The two are not believed to be related, and an arrest was made in 2022 (Richard Allen).
  • BIG circle back to Klunder. Reiteration of the statistical probability of his involvement of dual abductions.
  • Kent Smock (former Evansdale police chief) is pretty resolute in his belief that it's not Klunder but he can't share why.
  • They can not place Klunder in Evansdale.
  • Several people voice skepticism with the decision to rule Klunder out, including the Waterloo Police Chief who says he's "uneasy with ruing him out." Cell phone data can be unreliable, if that's what they're using as a determining factor. They seem to be publicly pressuring DCI to come out with their reasoning for believing they're confident with the decision. Filmmaker: If you're saying you believe he was either at home or at work, what you're really saying, to me, is that you don't know where he was."
  • A previously unknown link appears. This seems to come together just before the documentary went to air (or so it seems). MK's friend and/or cellmate, TC, was living in the Evansdale area after being released from prison. TC is also a sex offender. Another man who was in prison with MK & TC due to a drug offense (not a sex offender) states that he was talking on the phone with TC and TC stated that Klunder was with him at his house (or they were together somewhere... it's not clear)in Evansdale. This person went on to say that he actually SAW Klunder in Evansdale, with TC. This would be around the time of the girl's disappearance.
  • The man who was in prison with Klunder and TC mentions that if you're on parole you're not allowed to travel outside of your area without going through an approval process with your parole officer. That alone could be reason to leave your cell phone at home if you know you could get caught leaving your approved area.
  • Drew attempts to call TC. Speaks with his wife and asks her if TC will talk to him. He does not call Drew back.
  • A surprising conclusion as Drew sets out to find TC and talk to him. TC is now living outside of the area. Drew finds him walking near his home and is recorded talking to him. TC initially pretends to not know Drew or recall the girls. He proceeds to say "I heard it was the Mexican cartel." He alleges the police told him that. Drew says "I think it was Klunder." TC says Klunder is dead. Drew asks if he things MK did it and he changes gears, saying "I think so too. I did five years with him. He's a f-n weirdo." Drew asks if MK came to Evansdale, TC says he has no clue. He says the only contact he had with MK is when he called MK on the phone from his mom's house in Evansdale. Said the police pulled him in for questioning. He denies hanging out with MK or him being in Evansdale. He says he believes Klunder did it because he has "priors" for it. And then he surprisingly offers up "By himself? No." Drew asks who could have helped MK, he remarks there's a lot of weirdos in prison.
  • The documentary concludes with the sorrowful impact the disappearance has had on the family, a graveside gathering, and a plea for tips.
I wish I knew what Kent Smock knows.
I just watched this documentary, am I the only one who thinks Troy did it with Klunder? I feel like he was a dead giveaway why isn’t he being investigated further? These poor girls rip
 
I admit that I haven’t read everything on this thread, but I am confused about why you say that someone asked Lyric and Elizabeth to meet at the lake, park their bikes and throw her purse over the fence. Is there any evidence that the girls were told to do these things and DID them vs a perpetrator doing these things?
At the time of the disappearance, a couple of other WS members and I studied every aspect of how the girls ended up at the lake. The computer that I used at the time is long gone, as are the maps. However, going from memory ...

The girls told their grandmother that they were going to cycle in the nearby alley (CCTV behind auction house) and at the nearby shopping mall. Elizabeth had a friend who lived near Meyer's Lake, and the girls were seen cycling at the corner of that street by a man mowing his lawn. Elizabeth knew the route.

They continued cycling towards the bike trail that goes around the lake. That is where it's uncertain whether they went into the trees near the lake, and a third party walked their bikes over to the gate (not likely), or they cycled on the path and parked their bikes at the path-side of the gate before crossing to the water-side of the gate. There are no witnesses after the lawn mowing man.

My conclusion was that, after cycling in the alley, they seemed to rather intentionally, and in a short amount of time, cycle to the Meyer's Lake gate on the far side of the lake, park their bikes, cross to the water side of the gate, and vanish. Lizzie's purse, with a semi-functioning cell phone, was left behind near the shore.

The pathway was used by other cyclists and joggers that day at that time. No one saw the girls, or anyone else with the bikes. Someone placing the bikes at that location risked being seen. It would be safer to leave the bikes in the small nearby forest - which is where a vehicle may have been parked, hidden from the street. There's a service road into the treed area.

At the time, I think many of us wondered what lured them to that specific location simply because they seemed to race directly there, park their bikes and that was it. It's hard to say - but the question is: what cause them to disobey or mislead their grandmother and race to the lake? Why park their bikes if they knew their grandmother was expecting them back right away? Why go to that rather deserted part of the lake if they were just going to follow Lizzie's route to her friend's house?

Given the tight timeline, the bikes were placed there at the time of abduction, not after the girls were murdered.

1725597771297.png
Google Maps
 
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I recall that the Meyer's lake gate to the drainage pipe (man-made lake) should have been chained or locked shut, but it wasn't.

The girls bikes were leaning against the fence, not dropped on the path. Do eight and ten years old lean the bike, not drop it. I wonder what they did at home.

Some say that Lizzie threw her purse over the fence, others say that they parked their bikes, went through the fence gate, sat down, Lizzie put her purse on the ground beside her, and they encountered a man who forced them to walk along the shoreline-side of the fence to the treed area.

Some people think there was a van or two on the street between the lawn mower man and the bike trail (points 3 and 5 on map). I think that's unlikely - too exposed. The treed area (point 6 on map) was a party spot from the 1970s, before the highway was built. There's a city utility station and room for a vehicle. It's completely protected from all sight lines. It provides easy access to the gate and drainage pipe.

If that is where the abductor's vehicle was parked, where did he grab the girls, and how did their bikes end up leaning against the fence next to the gate? Did he abduct them near the trees, and put their bikes at the fence, or did they cycle around to meet someone - their abductor marched them the short distance along the shore and put them in his vehicle in the treed area?
 
If they were not lured, they were followed. It's too coincidental that the gate was open and they were there at the same time as a predator. Opportunistic predators grab women from routine running trails, like Molley Tibbetts. This was not a routine location for the girls. They had to sneak away from their grandmother to be there.

It appears that they were startled at the gate because Lizzie left her purse and cell phone behind.
 
I haven't seen the recent documentary, so I don't know how the murders are framed to implicate Klunder and his friend from prison. There's the similarity of 2 victims, just like Abby and Libby in Delphi. In that case, it was an unassuming man who doesn't appear to be connected to other murders. A connection was investigated there too, and dismissed.

Police and family have concluded and accepted that Klunder was not involved. How does the documentary get around the this? If the documentary does not trust the investigation into Klunder, do they also distrust the investigation into a connection with the Delphi murders?

"Authorities determined Klunder was not in Evansdale on July 13 and was not involved in the girls' disappearance or killing. Police believe Klunder was in or near his home in Stratford when the Evansdale girls disappeared, Smock said.

"We never close the door fully, but we're very comfortable saying we're no longer interested in looking at him," Smock said."

 

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