Italy - Sailing yacht sank off Italian coast, 15 rescued, 7 missing, 19 August 2024

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SouthAussie said:
Wiki is saying that because that is what is stated in the spec provided by Superyacht Times. All of Wiki's statements are clearly referenced.

The "forward" cockpit would be the one in the centre. Sailing yachts traditionally (and usually) are steered from the rear of the yacht, so Bayesian also has a cockpit at the rear.

I personally believe that the Captain's bunk is with the crew, in the crew quarters. It is the owner's quarters that are in the middle of the yacht. On many vessels the Captain is the owner, but not on this one, not on this trip.


The deck layout presents a very tasteful innovation, coming from the earlier Liberty 52-metre ketch: a 60m2 fore cockpit, in addition to the traditional aft cockpit.
Click to expand...
Thank you for explaining that "forward" in this case does not mean aft, I didn't realise!
It just means forward of rear/stern relative to the placement of the cockpit.
That is very helpful - as a non-mariner I didn't realise.

But there was an opinion above that the captain's bunk was center placed alongside a center cockpit, and that's what I cannot find anywhere, neither the links you shared nor the links I posted previously which show the crew quarters aft.

And yes, as I mentioned earlier, I agree it's the owner's cabin that appears to be in front of the engine room, towards the center. Not the captain's cabin. Since as we mentioned earlier, the captain is not the same as the owner on this voyage. Pasting again the photo below of the plan of the lower deck.

Now, it is possible that there is a captain's cabin towards the center of the ship, near the forward (center cockpit), perhaps on a different deck who knows, but that it is not indicated on the plans. Why could that be? Either because for security/privacy reasons they don't show the position of the captain's cabin, or because it was added in modifications made after the plans we have access to were drawn.

I say that because if you look at the yachtcharterfleet link below, there is a disclaimer as regards the plans in the event of possible subsequent modification the cabins. I am not saying they modified the yacht as regards the placement of the captain's cabin.

I personally don't think it's likely that there was a modification to the plan - it is possible and I want to allow space for the possible. But not likely.

So I am trying to figure out where the captain slept. Where exactly he was woken.

I agree with you that most likely, the captain slept in the Crew Accommodations.

Have you all looked at the number of crew beds?

We know there were 10 crew on board. There appear to be in the Crew Accommodations section beds (if the plan is still up to date):
  • one double stern / behind the engine room (perhaps for the cook as someone above suggested) (max 2 people)
  • one double aft (max 2 people)
  • two bunks aft port (max 2 people)
  • two bunks aft starboard (max 2 people)
  • two bunks with what looks like a 3rd Murphy bed type dropdown (max 3 people)
So of the crew accommodation indicated on the diagrams (leaving aside that perhaps there is a captain's cabin not indicated not he plans), we have 9 beds with capacity for 11 crew, and we know there were 10 crew aboard.

Assuming someone used the Murphy bed bunk bed, I'm guessing the cabin had the only aft double to himself.

So in that scenario, he was aft.

The reason this is important is because it seems that the humans in the stern and center of the boat were more at risk for dying (if the cook had the stern/rear double). Mike, Hannah for example.Angela made it out but she had already left that area. ALL of the other crew who were aft and also from Matthew's account on deck, out of their rooms, survived.

All my musings.

Thanks to all -

"NOTE to U.S. Customs & Border Protection
Disclaimer...The luxury sail yacht Bayesian is displayed on this page merely fo The yacht particulars displayed in the results above are displayed in good faith and whilst believed to be correct are not guaranteed, please check with your yacht charter broker. Trident Media Ltd does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information and/or images displayed as they may not be current. "
www.yachtcharterfleet.com

BAYESIAN Yacht Layout / General Arrangement Plans (ex. Salute) - Perini Navi Yachts

Interactive, detailed layout / general arrangement of BAYESIAN, the 56m Perini Navi Yachts super yacht with naval architecture by Ron Holland Design with an interior by Remi Tessier
www.yachtcharterfleet.com www.yachtcharterfleet.com

1725351301586.png
 
ItalyReader said:
I agree with you that most likely, the captain slept in the Crew Accommodations.

Have you all looked at the number of crew beds?

We know there were 10 crew on board. There appear to be in the Crew Accommodations section beds (if the plan is still up to date):
  • one double stern / behind the engine room (perhaps for the cook as someone above suggested) (max 2 people)
  • one double aft (max 2 people)
  • two bunks aft port (max 2 people)
  • two bunks aft starboard (max 2 people)
  • two bunks with what looks like a 3rd Murphy bed type dropdown (max 3 people)
So of the crew accommodation indicated on the diagrams (leaving aside that perhaps there is a captain's cabin not indicated not he plans), we have 9 beds with capacity for 11 crew, and we know there were 10 crew aboard.

Assuming someone used the Murphy bed bunk bed, I'm guessing the cabin had the only aft double to himself.

So in that scenario, he was aft.
Click to expand...

I think the main crew accommodation is in what's called the forward, at the bow.
The aft is at the stern, the rear of the boat.

From what I can see, the main crew accommodation is partially segmented into rooms/cabins. I think there could be walls there, and maybe several toilets. A kitchen with a table. Likely that the captain had one of the crew cabins that was his alone, or perhaps shared with the first officer or another crew member.

Unless the captain opted to sleep at the stern, below the aft cockpit. IDK

a.jpg


imo
 
SouthAussie said:
I think the main crew accommodation is in what's called the forward, at the bow.
The aft is at the stern, the rear of the boat.

From what I can see, the main crew accommodation is partially segmented into rooms/cabins. I think there could be walls there, and maybe several toilets. A kitchen with a table. Likely that the captain had one of the crew cabins that was his alone, or perhaps shared with the first officer or another crew member.

Unless the captain opted to sleep at the stern, below the aft cockpit. IDK

View attachment 528762


imo
Click to expand...
Yes! Apologies!!!! I should not use these words!
I meant crew accomodati one were in the front part, the bow.
 
SouthAussie said:
Unless the captain opted to sleep at the stern, below the aft cockpit. IDK
Click to expand...
Interesting accommodations analysis, @ItalyReader.

It is a curious question where the Captain slept, as it may have some impact on how quickly the crew could get his attention (unless there were phones / intercom of course) or more importantly, how quickly the captain could get to the crew to give commands and take control of the Yacht (from aft cockpit?) in those tremendous conditions.

I had at first thought the berth in the stern was the cook's. But now I wonder if it was the captain's, especially as you point out, @SouthAussie , that would put him directly below the aft cockpit. That appears to make great sense. But it also would separate him from the crew or take time for the crew to wake him, unless as I said, there were phones, etc.

If the captain's quarters were in the stern, then the cook would have slept with the rest of the crew. And perhaps he did not get up immediately because he was not trained to assist with sailing tasks. So he stayed below and sadly perished?

Just my musings as well. IMO.
 
RedHaus said:
Interesting accommodations analysis, @ItalyReader.

It is a curious question where the Captain slept, as it may have some impact on how quickly the crew could get his attention (unless there were phones / intercom of course) or more importantly, how quickly the captain could get to the crew to give commands and take control of the Yacht (from aft cockpit?) in those tremendous conditions.

I had at first thought the berth in the stern was the cook's. But now I wonder if it was the captain's, especially as you point out, @SouthAussie , that would put him directly below the aft cockpit. That appears to make great sense. But it also would separate him from the crew or take time for the crew to wake him, unless as I said, there were phones, etc.

If the captain's quarters were in the stern, then the cook would have slept with the rest of the crew. And perhaps he did not get up immediately because he was not trained to assist with sailing tasks. So he stayed below and sadly perished?

Just my musings as well. IMO.
Click to expand...
Having not had the personal luxury of staff and luxury yachts- my only knowledge comes from watching many series of below deck, from around the world and the chef always seems to bunk with the other crew, whereas the captains quarters are slightly more luxurious and away from the hub bub of crew quarters.
I agree the chef likely would have been no help and therefore wouldn’t have got up to assist as such- but the fact that they were recovered immediately suggests they had come up to the deck and weren’t trapped like the other passengers who remained below deck and unable to get out due to debris blocking routes. My initial thoughts are that the chef had a staff radio, so was aware of the urgency of the situation and its escalation whilst in his cabin, and moved quicker than the passengers also still below deck who would not have been privy to that radio chatter.
 
ItalyReader said:
What I'm looking for is a diagram/plan which shows the captain's cabin. I have read that it is typically next to or near the cockpit. I think it's odd that the captain's cabin location has not been identified either in press or in any of the diagrams we've found. I've shared this one multiple times but for relevancy I'll put it again here - it shows the same diagrams which are in your first link above. BAYESIAN Yacht Layout / General Arrangement Plans (ex. Salute) - Perini Navi Yachts

Unless he was in the crew area. But I don't think so. There appear to be beds for 8-9 people in the aft crew area, and another in the stern area, as someone noted perhaps for the cook.

If the captain had a cabin next to the cockpit/controls, why isn't that indicated on the plans?

My thought is that it isn't on the plans. I don't know why.

Also, if the pilot house is in the center as indicated from a photo I believe by @lonetraveler then why is wikipedia saying instead the cockpits are forward and aft, not center?

A diagram showing captain's cabin might help clarify all this.
Click to expand...
I said center, not forward. There is also an aft area to pilot the boat. JMO
 
lonetraveler said:
I said center, not forward. There is also an aft area to pilot the boat. JMO
Click to expand...
Yes 100, you said center and I quoted you as saying center.
@SouthAussie pointed out - extremely helpfully I might add - that the “forward” cockpit is actually centrally located, it is just forward of the aft/rear cockpit.

I’m starting to fear these terms as a non mariner!
 
Dotta said:
nypost.com

Satellite video shows final minutes of the Bayesian superyacht as it is dramatically blown by storm and disappears from radar

Satellite imaging video obtained by The Post from the early morning of August 19 shows the moments the $40m superyacht – which had 22 people aboard, seven of whom drowned in the tragedy – is dramat…
nypost.com nypost.com
Click to expand...
Truly amazing, @Dotta, thanks for sharing.

Not to beat a dead horse, but from your link, here is the quote from Captain Borner I was originally looking for the other day, describing how he saw the Bayesian sink stern first: “A moment later, I saw a triangle in the sea in a split second that the sky was lit up by lightning, and that must have been the bow of the ship while sinking over the stern.”

That said, what I found amazing by the satellite video, excerpted from your article here, are three things:

1) Borner's old yacht started with its bow facing the SE wind as it would under bow anchor. But the Bayesian had a much different heading - I wonder why that was? Could the Bayesian had both a bow and stern anchor deployed?;

2) Borner managed to keep his yacht heading into the SE wind the entire time (as he has reported he pulled anchor and started his engine to keep the yacht under control), but the Bayesian actually did a 180 degree spin and was blown from the rear (stern) to where it rested, appearing as if her captain never got control of her situation.

3) Both yachts appear equally affected by the supposed downburst and blown roughly equal distances. So my early curiosity about whether the Bayesian got the storm's epicenter while Borner's yacht was spared, have been dispelled.

IMO.
 
This article shows weather radar for Sicily at the time of the incident and also gives some other interesting details:
www.euronews.com

Did record sea temperatures put the Sicily yacht in a fatal position?

One expert says the storm could be seen hours before and the risk should have been communicated, even in the middle of the night.
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com
This article is also about the weather predictions leading up to it, which the weather report basically says that things would be very spotty in Italy where local regions could experience severe weather:
www.ilmessaggero.it

Mediterranean Cyclone to Hit Italy with Severe Storms and Extreme Weather

The Mediterranean cyclone that hit the Balearic Islands on the Eve of Ferragosto is heading towards Italy. According to the forecasts of ilmeteo.it, the vortex will be responsible for a deterioration...
www.ilmessaggero.it www.ilmessaggero.it
 
ItalyReader said:
Yes 100, you said center and I quoted you as saying center.
@SouthAussie pointed out - extremely helpfully I might add - that the “forward” cockpit is actually centrally located, it is just forward of the aft/rear cockpit.

I’m starting to fear these terms as a non mariner!
Click to expand...

I'm super confused now.
 
just fyi: the Post has an inaccurate subtitle on this video (at 53 seconds) which claims that the Sir Robert Baden Powell deployed the liferaft but the article says differently (that it came from the Bayesian)

nypost.com

Satellite video shows final minutes of the Bayesian superyacht as it is dramatically blown by storm and disappears from radar

Satellite imaging video obtained by The Post from the early morning of August 19 shows the moments the $40m superyacht – which had 22 people aboard, seven of whom drowned in the tragedy – is dramat…
nypost.com nypost.com
 
Last edited:
SpanishInquisition said:
This article shows weather radar for Sicily at the time of the incident and also gives some other interesting details:
www.euronews.com

Did record sea temperatures put the Sicily yacht in a fatal position?

One expert says the storm could be seen hours before and the risk should have been communicated, even in the middle of the night.
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com
Click to expand...
Fascinating. I still wish we could find historical radar maps in the hour or two preceding this event in order to assess how much the Watchman could have / should have anticipated for 3:50am. That said, from this article you shared:

""Lars Lowinski, a meteorologist at Weather & Radar, says... “There are witness reports mentioning large waves, which would rather suggest that a downburst may have caused this,”... Downbursts can be bigger [than a waterspout / tornado] and generate very large waves in a short amount of time, he adds. “A downburst can easily generate winds above 150km/h which is enough to create huge difficulties for a yacht like this.”"

"The weather service’s map shows a blob of intense thunderstorm activity just east and northeast of Palermo at 4am on 19 August, indicating a severe storm moving across the sea."

My amateur sleuthing opinion is that there must have been lightening strikes long before the 20km winds that caused the Watchman to wake the captain. Hindsight is 20/20, but what if he'd woken the captain much earlier... IMO.

The blueish and purple colours show rainfall rates, the yellow dots show lightning strikes and the greyish/whitish areas show clouds.

"The blueish and purple colours show rainfall rates, the yellow dots show lightning strikes and the greyish/whitish areas show clouds.Weather & Radar"
 
SpanishInquisition said:
This article is also about the weather predictions leading up to it, which the weather report basically says that things would be very spotty in Italy where local regions could experience severe weather:
www.ilmessaggero.it

Mediterranean Cyclone to Hit Italy with Severe Storms and Extreme Weather

The Mediterranean cyclone that hit the Balearic Islands on the Eve of Ferragosto is heading towards Italy. According to the forecasts of ilmeteo.it, the vortex will be responsible for a deterioration...
www.ilmessaggero.it www.ilmessaggero.it
Click to expand...
Fantastic find, @SpanishInquisition . I bet this is the regional weather disturbance that the ship builder early on contended was impossible to ignore, questioning why the Bayesian crew did not anticipate a severe storm.

The article largely focuses on the weekend, 16 August (Friday) through 18 August (Sunday). But considering the Bayesian event was just four hours past Sunday (3:50am 19 August), my guess is that it is an applicable warning.

"Mediterranean Cyclone to Hit Italy with Severe Storms and Extreme Weather"​

"...Sunday, August 18, frequent thunderstorms are expected in the North and much of the Center... Pay close attention to thunderstorms. Cooler air masses will flow over an existing hot and humid layer, creating strong contrasts capable of generating very violent thunderstorm systems. We indeed expect extreme phenomena with heavy downpours, intense wind gusts..." [formatting from within the article]

And here is the weather alert that we were wondering if it existed. It did.
  • "The Civil Protection of Friuli Venezia Giulia has issued a yellow weather alert due to thunderstorms, even strong ones, expected for Sunday, when an Atlantic cold front will cause instability throughout Italy. Sunday, according to the weather bulletin, marked variability is expected with scattered thunderstorms, alternating with better weather phases. Locally, thunderstorms may be strong, more likely on the plains and coast. The occurrence of such events, warns the Civil Protection, may lead to local crisis situations in the minor hydrographic network and urban drainage, local slope instability phenomena, road interruptions, and problems related to possible wind gusts during thunderstorms. The Civil Protection system is "recommended to maintain maximum vigilance on the territory, particularly in areas designated for camping and in conjunction with any outdoor events, to prepare timely emergency measures. The alert will be in effect for the entire day." [formatting done by me]
IMO
 
ItalyReader said:
Yes 100, you said center and I quoted you as saying center.
@SouthAussie pointed out - extremely helpfully I might add - that the “forward” cockpit is actually centrally located, it is just forward of the aft/rear cockpit.

I’m starting to fear these terms as a non mariner!
Click to expand...
I'm gifted in making everything confusing.
 
In regards to weather … the ship must have this info streaming in to their controls. I do wonder if there was reliance & confidence on all the new tech and expectation of actively being warned. In contrast to older ship nearby, possibly captain more vigilant and actively cautious as aware of vulnerabilities.

Also, wonder if anchor contributed. It’s big and on a long chain / (it’s possible it had 2 off the bow but that’s not reported).
It might have been dragging because not rising fast enough, & then under the ship rather than forward of the bow as strong winds change direction. No idea of could impact/contact keel. Agree above, should have raised it sooner or there was a fault w it being stuck.
 
RedHaus said:
""Lars Lowinski, a meteorologist at Weather & Radar, says... “There are witness reports mentioning large waves, which would rather suggest that a downburst may have caused this,”... Downbursts can be bigger [than a waterspout / tornado] and generate very large waves in a short amount of time, he adds. “A downburst can easily generate winds above 150km/h which is enough to create huge difficulties for a yacht like this.”"
Click to expand...

I think a key statement here is (from your link) "which is enough to create huge difficulties for a yacht like this"

An enormous yacht like the Bayesian takes longer to respond than a smaller yacht does.

The night watchman was monitoring the weather and woke the captain when he felt the winds were growing too strong, but when the downburst suddenly hit, the Bayesian yacht would have been more difficult to manage than the smaller yachts in the area.


Small yachts are easy to handle and quickly change direction
Due to increased length and displacement, larger yachts have more momentum and take longer to respond to steering and power changes.
The yacht’s width, or beam, keeps it steady on the water; however, a wider yacht might not move as swiftly or turn as easily.
What Size is a Yacht | Dimensions and Classifications
 
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