FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #2 *Arrest*

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bears10 said:
People seem to be assuming that all Autistic kids are violent and slow educationally. It’s a shame. Like someone else stated. You meet one autistic person, you met one Autistic person. You can’t lump all Autistic people into one narrow description.
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Thank you! I truly appreciate your response.

I don’t think we ( or at least most ) lump them together. But sometimes written words do get misunderstood. My cousin’s son is an exception to most autistic kids I have been around. some you would not be likely to know they had a problem, some are very obviously troubled. So yes ... as with any child, there are varying degrees to learning abilities.
 
MelmothTheLost said:
I think that we in the Anglosphere have profound problems with the idea of the person who reports another person to the authorities and are deeply uneasy about the sort of person who does that. In the UK the usual terms for such a person are "snitch" and "grass" - both highly perjorative. We associate it with totalitarianism and the police state, or with criminals betraying one another to the police. It's deeply dishonourable.

It's also a problem which works against the drive to embed a culture of whistleblowing in our corporate and government spheres. The experience here in the UK is that even when a company has a formally adopted whistleblowing policy which on paper guarantees an honest reporter will not be penalised if they get it wrong, and a route to report wrongdoing, in reality whistleblowers are penalised because of a very deeply engrained culture which is hostile to the "snitch" even when their claims are well founded.
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I agree and understand. However, we have been engaging the “see something, say something” policy lately & it seems to be helping. People are speaking out in a variety of areas of wrongdoing & harms.

In the case of N.C., there were multiple reporting from a variety of sources. Our FBI dropped the ball because it’s easier to do that rather than have a protocol put into place (that works) to protect us.

What is interesting, they did Baker Act NC’s brother for some reason so there is obviously some sort of protocol or action that is allowed.

If I were a family member of one of the 17 victims in this case, I’d be suing the FBI and every other organization/institution that documented NC’s harmful behavior. And I’d be doing this solely to create a freer society that’s safe for all of us
 
[FONT=&amp]Annika Dean survived last year’s mass shooting at the Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood airport by hiding behind a luggage cart. Her 14-year-old son, Austin, survived this week’s shooting at a Parkland, Florida, high school by hiding in a classroom.
[/FONT]http://www.monroenews.com/zz/sharea...a-his-mother-survived-mass-shooting-last-year

- - - -

[FONT=&quot]A student who survived the [/FONT]shooting at a Florida school[FONT=&quot] hid in a closet — just like her grandfather did to escape a 1949 shooting rampage in New Jersey.
[/FONT]http://time.com/5162939/carly-novell-florida-school-shooting/
 
HMSHood said:
I read Elliot Rodger's manifesto. There is a theme of extreme envy and resentment.

I read that Nikolas Cruz was very obsessed about his girlfriend. He got expelled because he got in a fight the ex-girlfriend's boyfriend.

Alleged school shooter was abusive to ex-girlfriend: classmate
https://nypost.com/2018/02/15/alleged-school-shooter-was-abusive-to-ex-girlfriend-classmate/

Alleged school shooter Nikolas Cruz threatened to kill his ex girlfriend — and was expelled after fighting with her new boyfriend, classmates revealed Thursday.

“The reason he got expelled was because he was fighting with his ex-girlfriend’s new boyfriend,” Connor Dietrich, 17, a junior at Florida’s Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, told The Post.

“He stalked her and threatened her. He was like, ‘I’m going to kill you,’ and he would say awful things to her and harass her to the point I would walk her to the bus just to make sure she was OK. We all made sure she was never alone.”

Cruz is very jealous and likely is pathologically envious. He very well likely engaged in bullying. Pathological envy is a common characteristic of rampage killers and terrorists.
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NC fought, terrorized, stalked, and threatened other individuals and he didn’t get arrested by local LE? He probably was 18 at this point & a legal adult. If he had been dealt with appropriately for just these instances (& we know there were more) it would’ve at least prevented him from buying a gun & it would’ve started building a criminal law record, which is important.
 
ATasteOfHoney said:
NC fought, terrorized, stalked, and threatened other individuals and he didn’t get arrested by local LE? He probably was 18 at this point & a legal adult. If he had been dealt with appropriately for just these instances (& we know there were more) it would’ve at least prevented him from buying a gun & it would’ve started building a criminal law record, which is important.
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He should of been arrested right there.
 
HMSHood said:
He should of been arrested right there.
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Exactly......the school expelled him for those violent and arrestible actions. Did the school contact local LE? If so.....what action was taken? It has been reported that local police had been called over 30+ times but no arrests and no action taken? It appears then that LE in this case is just a reporting agency and not a law enforcement agency, right? Ugh!

And we also have the FBI who have admittedly dropped the ball in this case twice......

Accountability must be demanded now by our societal members. We can’t suffer much more of this sort of thing.
 
At schools near and far from Parkland, teachers face tough questions from students
by Elizabeth Chuck

At Ramblewood Middle School in Coral Springs, Florida — less than a 20-minute drive from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School where 17 people were shot to death on Wednesday — students have been asking: What if it happens here?

Only half the class came in on Thursday and Friday, according to Ramblewood drama teacher Meagan Nagy. The rest are too scared to come to school.

And those who have shown up are on edge.

"Every time there was a knock at my door, any time the bell rings, the intercom went off, the students jumped," Nagy said. "They were scared." ...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...man-douglas-high-school-teachers-face-n848701
 
Looking at Nikolas Cruz, he is clearly a dangerous injustice collector.

On Wound Collectors
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201509/wound-collectors

Murderous Envy
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/keeping-kids-safe/200905/murderous-envy

Nikolas Cruz is pathologically envious as he is very obsessed about his girlfriend. He got expelled because of it as he attacked the ex-girlfriend's boyfriend. Envy is a common characteristic of injustice collectors.

Alleged school shooter was abusive to ex-girlfriend: classmate
https://nypost.com/2018/02/15/alleged-school-shooter-was-abusive-to-ex-girlfriend-classmate/

Alleged school shooter Nikolas Cruz threatened to kill his ex girlfriend — and was expelled after fighting with her new boyfriend, classmates revealed Thursday.

“The reason he got expelled was because he was fighting with his ex-girlfriend’s new boyfriend,” Connor Dietrich, 17, a junior at Florida’s Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, told The Post.

“He stalked her and threatened her. He was like, ‘I’m going to kill you,’ and he would say awful things to her and harass her to the point I would walk her to the bus just to make sure she was OK. We all made sure she was never alone.”

The Dangerous Injustice Collector: Behaviors of Someone Who Never Forgets, Never Forgives, Never Lets Go, and Strikes Back!
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/vio.2014.1509

Identifying The Next Mass Murderer—Before It’s Too Late
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...ntifying-the-next-mass-murderer-it-s-too-late

Psychology of Terrorism - National Criminal Justice Reference Service
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/208552.PDF

Terrorists are injustice collectors. It is not the sole reason, but a major factor.

Revisiting Adam Lanza: The Official Sandy Hook Report
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...ing-adam-lanza-the-official-sandy-hook-report

Lanza is consumed by pathological envy.

Elliot Rodger-My Twisted World
http://abclocal.go.com/three/kabc/kabc/My-Twisted-World.pdf

Envy is a major theme in Rodger's manifesto.

Seung Hui Cho’s Manifesto
https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/cho_manifesto_1.1.pdf

Like Rodger and Lanza, envy consumes Cho.

Websleuth Radio Interview Tina Meier
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2013/09/30/tricias-true-crime-radio-adult-cyber-bullying

Tina Meier's description of Lori Drew at the 20:40 mark describes Nikolas Cruz. There is also Investigation Discovery Web Of Lies Friend Request. In both cases, they are consumed by envy and are negativistic. They are very resentful and unhappy people. They are perpetual victims. They were avoided by people. Meier's description of Drew is also similar to Jodi Arias, Yoselyn Ortega, David and Louise Turpin, Howell Donaldson, Stephen Paddock, Devin Kelley, Omar Mateen, Seung-Hui Cho, Adam Lanza, Eric Harris, Elliot Rodger, and Osama bin Laden.
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
At schools near and far from Parkland, teachers face tough questions from students
by Elizabeth Chuck

At Ramblewood Middle School in Coral Springs, Florida — less than a 20-minute drive from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School where 17 people were shot to death on Wednesday — students have been asking: What if it happens here?

Only half the class came in on Thursday and Friday, according to Ramblewood drama teacher Meagan Nagy. The rest are too scared to come to school.

And those who have shown up are on edge.

"Every time there was a knock at my door, any time the bell rings, the intercom went off, the students jumped," Nagy said. "They were scared." ...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...man-douglas-high-school-teachers-face-n848701
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The students have a right to be afraid.....the school administrators obviously failed the students if they hadn’t contacted LE about his arrestible offenses & they just simply expelled him.

I smell a **huge** lawsuit coming....& coming to multiple organizations that failed to reasonably take the appropriate action to ensure the safety of the students and faculty. This lawsuit (sadly) will be the only initiative to effect a change in the future. All imho.
 
Only4Justice said:
The mother of Adam Lanza helped him obtain firearms. And she paid with her life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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She actually purchased the guns for him. He had no money and barely left the basement of the house. She apparently felt they were bonding over his love of guns.

"His mother, Nancy Lanza, a gun enthusiast, legally obtained and registered a large collection of weapons and would often take her sons to shooting ranges."
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/03/us/how-mass-shooters-got-their-guns.html
 
Only4Justice said:
The mother of Adam Lanza helped him obtain firearms. And she paid with her life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Mothers aren’t the most objective resource of gaging their child’s proclivity of harming others. The “not my boy” saga is getting old.
 
ATasteOfHoney said:
I agree and understand. However, we have been engaging the “see something, say something” policy lately & it seems to be helping. People are speaking out in a variety of areas of wrongdoing & harms.

In the case of N.C., there were multiple reporting from a variety of sources. Our FBI dropped the ball because it’s easier to do that rather than have a protocol put into place (that works) to protect us.

What is interesting, they did Baker Act NC’s brother for some reason so there is obviously some sort of protocol or action that is allowed.

If I were a family member of one of the 17 victims in this case, I’d be suing the FBI and every other organization/institution that documented NC’s harmful behavior. And I’d be doing this solely to create a freer society that’s safe for all of us
Click to expand...

You can't sue police for failure to protect you. I presume the same applies to FBI.
 
As we explore the factors that contributed to this most recent shooting, here is another to consider:

Media Contagion is Factor in Mass Shootings, study says

"Mass shootings are on the rise and so is media coverage of them," said Jennifer B. Johnston, PhD, of Western New Mexico University. "At this point, can we determine which came first? Is the relationship merely unidirectional: More shootings lead to more coverage? Or is it possible that more coverage leads to more shootings?"

.... She cited several media contagion models, most notably one proposed by Towers et al. (2015), which found the rate of mass shootings has escalated to an average of one every 12.5 days, and one school shooting on average every 31.6 days, compared to a pre-2000 level of about three events per year. "A possibility is that news of shooting is spread through social media in addition to mass media," she said.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/08/160804172443.htm
 
ATasteOfHoney said:
Exactly......the school expelled him for those violent and arrestible actions. Did the school contact local LE? If so.....what action was taken? It has been reported that local police had been called over 30+ times but no arrests and no action taken? It appears then that LE in this case is just a reporting agency and not a law enforcement agency, right? Ugh!

And we also have the FBI who have admittedly dropped the ball in this case twice......

Accountability must be demanded now by our societal members. We can’t suffer much more of this sort of thing.
Click to expand...

Someone really dropped the ball big time.

Nikolas Cruz had a lot of red flags.

People were not surprised that he would be a school shooter.

I have heard that before with Seung-Hui Cho, Adam Lanza, Elliot Rodger, Jared Loughner, Dylann Roof, and Devin Kelley.

Lindsey Graham Says SC Church Shooting Suspect Dylann Roof Was His Niece's Classmate
http://abcnews.go.com/US/lindsey-graham-sc-church-shooting-suspect-dylann-roof/story?id=31877465

"Emily said that in school he was just a quiet, strange kid," Graham said on ABC's "The View" Wednesday morning. "Seems like one of these Newtown type guys," referring to the Connecticut massacre.

Looking Behind the Mug-Shot Grin
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/16/us/16loughner.html

“I started talking to him about what he liked to do, hobbies, pastimes,” recalled Carl Grace, 30, who drew the second tattoo. “He said he dreamed 14 to 15 hours a day. He said he knew how to control his sleeping and control his dreams.” But when the artist asked about the meaning behind the tattoo, the customer just smiled.

“When he left, I said: ‘That’s a weird dude. That’s a Columbine candidate.’ ”

Pima College blacked out embarrassing Loughner email
http://www.tucsonsentinel.com/local...lege-blacked-out-embarrassing-loughner-email/

Buried in the 8,500 pages of documents relating to Jared Loughner released Tuesday by Pima Community College is a potentially embarrassing comment the school tried to avoid releasing.

A Jan. 13 email from a Pima instructor to someone outside the school included a comment that Loughner, the accused Jan. 8 shooter, "could just as easily have come back and shot up the school rather than Gabby's event."

'Question Mark' Killer Quietly Seethed With Rage
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/04/19/question-mark-killer-quietly-seethed-with-rage.html

"The plays had really twisted, macabre violence that used weapons I wouldn't have even thought of."

He said he and other students "were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter."

Report weaves dark tale of gunman's past
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/aug/31/nation/na-vatech31

In the eighth grade, an art therapist noticed that his paintings were growing darker. After the murders at Columbine High School in 1999, Cho wrote what officials deemed "a disturbing paper" for his English class expressing thoughts of suicide and homicide, saying he wanted "to repeat Columbine." The school contacted Cho's sister, who reported the incident to their parents. Cho was sent to a psychiatrist.

'He had a Columbine feel to him': Former classmates recall Texas shooting suspect Devin Kelley
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...braunfels-high-school-columbine-a8041926.html

But one former classmate at New Braunfels High School said Kelley stood out for having “a Columbine feel to him” – a reference to the 1999 school shooting that killed 13.

“You know that kid that wears a trench coat to school? He was kinda like that,” the classmate, who asked to be identified only by his first name, Ryan, told The Independent.
 
Jinkasaurus said:
As we explore the factors that contributed to this most recent shooting, here is another to consider:

Media Contagion is Factor in Mass Shootings, study says

"Mass shootings are on the rise and so is media coverage of them," said Jennifer B. Johnston, PhD, of Western New Mexico University. "At this point, can we determine which came first? Is the relationship merely unidirectional: More shootings lead to more coverage? Or is it possible that more coverage leads to more shootings?"

.... She cited several media contagion models, most notably one proposed by Towers et al. (2015), which found the rate of mass shootings has escalated to an average of one every 12.5 days, and one school shooting on average every 31.6 days, compared to a pre-2000 level of about three events per year. "A possibility is that news of shooting is spread through social media in addition to mass media," she said.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/08/160804172443.htm
Click to expand...

There was a well-documented cluster of teen suicides in a small part of South Wales some years ago though the authorities denied a contagion effect was taking place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridgend_suicide_incidents
 
jjenny said:
You can't sue police for failure to protect you. I presume the same applies to FBI.
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Link please.

I find that hard to believe. And I’m not sure what you mean notating your comment in the first person tense (directing it to me?). LE and FBI are mandated to protect all of us in society which is why they utilize guns, technology, equipment, etc

Are you saying LE & FBI is just a report-generating agencies with no authority? I think the school districts could be sued as well if they negated arrestible offenses with a simple expulsion.
 
ATasteOfHoney said:
I smell a **huge** lawsuit coming....& coming to multiple organizations that failed to reasonably take the appropriate action to ensure the safety of the students and faculty. This lawsuit (sadly) will be the only initiative to effect a change in the future. All imho.
Click to expand...

If a person is assessed by a mental health professional, agency or whatever and they are found not be a danger, then the reality is that the _______ can't be held accountable unless they failed to act based on what they had been presented with. I run into this regularly with protective services. They do an assessment and think a child is safe to be left in the home. I don't agree but they have their measurements that dictate what their duty is. Nothing changed after Sandy Hook. No laws that would protect "all of us" against the AL's of the world-- even a measure that linked social security numbers to guns in order to link mental health SSI receivers regarding fitness to own has been overturned. Congress with the president's signature and state governments need to act. What is the balance? I don't think that is a topic we can explore here. But, I don't think lawsuits will occur or help. Here at WS, how many times do we see children abused and killed under the same circumstances? You think it would be easy to get children out of the hands of abusive parents. Rarely do we see legislation or sweeping changes in social services. People need to rise up and cease being quiet because eventually it will happen in each of our backyards--- just look at the mass shooting maps. It will soon be like the six degrees of Kevin Bacon game with those affected by mass shootings. I know I am a first degree to a school shooting already- I know a survivor of Sandy Hook.
 
Under the Federal Torts Claims Act, you can sue the federal government if you suffered injuries due to the actions of certain government employees. The FTCA dictates that a lawsuit is a potential remedy in cases of:
“injury or loss of property, or personal injury or death caused by the negligent or wrongful act or omission of any employee of the Government while acting within the scope of his office or employment, under circumstances where the United States, if a private person, would be liable to the claimant in accordance with the law of the place where the act or omission occurred.” http://www.targanpender.com/can-i-sue-the-federal-government

The calls that came in about him were a month old (I know they weren't followed up on) but they never met with him, did not assess him. He roamed free for one month plus and did not kill people. I know it sounds ridiculous but if suing the government was easy then children who are in the system who do a crime would leave the government open to soooooo many suits or pick a scenario where an incident did not occur almost immediately. We can't put any LEO or first responders or government employees to that kind of test. But, I think it is important to identify what can be done within the law to make it so people like this can't get access to harming others.
 
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