FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #2 *Arrest*

[Owutatangledweb]

It’s the proliferation and easy access to media! Yes, it’s all media’s fault! It’s the common factor in all horrible mass shootings!

Everything now makes sense! Now we can solve all our our problems!

/s

[emoji849]

The quote said as we explore "the factors". Media is one factor of the many that may have contributed here.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I'm interested in learning more about this. Can you provide a link?

Every State has their own governmental immunity statutes. You will have to look at Florida's. There is a federal one as well. Usually, getting around immunity will result in holding the individuals personally liable.

 

[Doghairrules]

Thanks for clarifying.

The bit BBM - do you think that was a reasonable assessment of the situation in this case, bearing in mind there are children who are so multiply and profoundly disabled it's difficult to see any positive aspects to their lives?

No. None of us thought it was reasonable - he could go to school and participate in activities. But I suspect no one helped her move on from him not being the son she dreamed of, you know? And most of us were parents of kids with disabilities or had a family member with a disability. So we understood, but were surprised she hadn’t gotten past that by the time he was about 12.

 

[ohreally]

The link I posted yesterday shows that Broward County Schools has thier own police department. They have 20 sworn officers. My understanding is that any crimes that happen on the school campus is handled by the school systems police. They are the ones that decide if an arrest or any charges should be made not the county or city police. This is my understanding maybe someone else has a better understanding of it.
I am stunned by all the law enforcement agency's that need to be held accountable.

 

[RANCH]

Every State has their own governmental immunity statutes. You will have to look at Florida's. There is a federal one as well. Usually, getting around immunity will result in holding the individuals personally liable.

You made the statement of fact not me so you should look it up.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I really appreciate your participation on this thread AmyPond -I have read three of your posts so far - because your answers clearly show you have educated yourself about autism and parents like you is what society needs, knowledgeable and active participants on the improvement of provision/services for autistic children.

Unlike those who read an article about the subject and already consider themselves experts on it and throw generalizations here and there on a matter which affects people's lives.

Please provide the link to the post or post # for what you are referencing. I haven’t seen anything here regarding what you’re posting about but maybe I’ve missed it.
Generally, WS posters seem level-headed and well-versed enough to not put a group or segment into one pot or stereotype.
Moo

 

[Doghairrules]

Please provide the link to the post or post # for what you are referencing. I haven’t seen anything here regarding what you’re posting about but maybe I’ve missed it.
Generally, WS posters seem level-headed and well-versed enough to not put a group or segment into one pot or stereotype.
Moo

It’s the post that is quoted plus post 412, I think.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

It’s the post that is quoted plus post 412, I think.

It seems that the post that was quoted comes from a mother’s personal experience which has merit to me—just as much as another mother’s personal experience. Oh well.....I don’t have a dog in that fight.

Personally, I don’t care if N.C. was diagnosed or labeled with anything specific. His actions, words, social media, interactions with numerous agencies, etc is what really matters. He was an obvious ticking time bomb for a long time.

And if this is their protocol, they have egregiously failed society and must do better.

 

[cujenn81]

Attn All Americans

Surprise ! We are back to money.

There are long lasting injectables (30 days)


They are expensive - noone will pay for them

There are only a few.

Its a win win win

the side effect profiles on the heavy hitters are rough

with an injectable however it kinda makes it to where at least it can get to level then the side effects most times settles

They stop taking their meds because of the side effect profiles. If you can get past that and the pt has relief.

But noone will pay for them .........

Yes, Zyprexa injections have drastically improved my mother's mental health during manic episodes. She has bipolar disorder and is very compliant about taking her medication - when she's well. However, it's when the scales tip and she slips into a hypomanic or manic state that she gets combative and refuses to take her meds. When this occurs, she's usually given an injection that lasts for three weeks. This is usually enough time to stabilize her mood, at least to the degree where she recognizes and understands she needs to take her medication or no longer refuses to take it. It has been a godsend for us the few times she has needed it. Of course, my mom has great health insurance and med compliant when she's well. These things make a big difference and I know this isn't true for many others who suffer from mental illness. I just wanted to point out how they can definitely make a huge difference in the lives of some.

 

[Ambitioned]

Why do you keep calling autism an "illness?" My son has autism and isn't "ill" at all. That's such a strange way to refer to it. I actually find it a bit offensive.

I know being deaf isn't the same as autism but it's sort of similar wrt to comments by other people. My nephew gets comments such as, "Aw I'm sorry you're deaf!," "Can deaf people drive?" "That's a bad illness. How do you cope?" "Wow! You can speak??" And so on, ad nauseum.

My nephew deals with this everyday. He tells them he's happy and loves his cochlear implant. And he tells them not all deaf people are the same, just as not all hearing people are the same.

Thank you for helping others be more informed.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Would be nice, wouldn't it? I am sure that when it comes to the many who encountered this young man, they did what they could legally do. I am as appalled as anyone else is about this shooting. But, I want to say that we have had plenty of egregious behavior and horrifying events in this country. There are lawmakers who are not held accountable. Leaders not held accountable. If the school expelled NC and that was the most they could do legally, why should they be dragged through the mud? We as voters and taxpayers need to be accountable for the budget requests we withhold, for the lack of services provided by our schools and public mental health providers and on and on. There may have been missed opportunities here but I can guarantee all of us that when we don't provide funds, laws, and systems to help LEO, first responders, school professionals, publicly paid mental health professionals, we should all be fired as well. It is expensive to have metal detectors and armed police, social workers, school counselors, mental health workers, CPS professionals (the most underpaid providers with the highest stress of most civil professionals) and prevention programs. Can we all handle what it costs to make a dent? Hell, teachers in many classrooms have to spend out of pocket to buy supplies.......

I feel it effective to not bring in numerous other topics when we are crying out for a specific change. We must focus on how authorities and agencies can investigate, and effectively handle these active shooting incidents upon our public.

By generalizing, addressing numerous other topics, and throwing our hands up, it becomes too big and overwhelming hence the laizzez-fairre attitude of our agencies/authorities.

Let’s address one topic at a time—demand accountability—demand change of protocols if needed for active shooters.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

If it is confirmed NC had "mental illness", is there any chance he could be rehabilitated and eventually released back into society? Sobering thought, i know. But we had an incident in Canada not too long ago where a man beheaded someone on a greyhound bus and was released just a few years later because he was not criminally responsible.
But truthfully, isn't that the whole point of a defense of mental defect?

Maybe the prosecutors should leave the death penalty off the table, take his guilty plea and run!

I remember that beheading, absolutely horrific. He should be committed for life.

IMO, yes, anytime there's a determination of mental illness there's a chance he will walk the streets again. I would like to think that couldn't possibly happen in this case, but I never thought I would see John Hinkley released, either.

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[RANCH]

I feel it effective to not bring in numerous other topics when we are crying out for a specific change. We must focus on how authorities and agencies can investigate, and effectively handle these active shooting incidents upon our public.

By generalizing, addressing numerous other topics, and throwing our hands up, it becomes too big and overwhelming hence the laizzez-fairre attitude of our agencies/authorities.

Let’s address one topic at a time—demand accountability—demand change of protocols if needed for active shooters.

I agree. Holding LE and other governmental agencies accountable for doing a poor job should be done quickly and with enough penalty to create beneficial changes. It can be done, there is no excuse not to.

JMO.

 

[Betty P]

I'm reserving my sympathy for Cruz. He was an evil, hate filled person who planned for a very long time to kill students and law enforcement officers.

His social media profile is appalling, disgusting. It's filled with disgusting, violent rants expressing extreme racism, anti-Semitism and bigotry, along with his desire to kill the people he hated so much.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/14/us/nikolas-cruz-florida-shooting-suspect/index.html

Cruz's social media posts paint what Israel called a "very, very disturbing" picture.
Israel said Cruz's digital profile contains troubling content that included a variety of gun- and violence-related posts on social media.
A user going by the name of Nikolas Cruz also included slurs against blacks and Muslims in his posts.
A law enforcement source said authorities are aware of Cruz's extremist views on social media. The investigation is in early stages and so they are gathering information. One question for investigators is whether Cruz simply espoused extremist views and used related language or was in fact tied to any groups.
Cruz's disturbing behavior also included several threatening comments under videos on YouTube and other sites. They include:

"I whana shoot people with my AR-15"
"I wanna die Fighting killing s**t ton of people"
"I am going to kill law enforcement one day they go after the good people."

He's a vile, hateful person who deserves no sympathy. He grew up with a loving mother in a home valued at over $500,000. He attended good schools, special classes, made decent grades and had financial resources and support that most kids in the US only dream of. He had every opportunity to do something good with his life. Instead, he chose to become a hate-filled, violent person who took out his anger on a bunch of innocent kids, teachers and coaches.

He should feel lucky to be able to spend the rest of his miserable life in prison. Let him rot there, IMO.

Series of police reports reveals Nikolas Cruz was abusive toward mom, regularly lashed out at home


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...al-nikolas-cruz-abusive-mom-article-1.3826633

“I hate jews, n-----s, immigrants,” Cruz posted after joining the Instagram group in August 2017.

Cruz discussed killing Mexicans and chaining blacks like slaves, reported CNN after uncovering the chat group. As for gays, the homicidal teen suggested, “Shoot them in the back of the head.”

Newly released Parkland Police Department reports depicted Cruz as a threat to his mother and himself, exposing the killer-in-waiting as a volatile teen anxious to purchase a gun once he turned 18.

 

[Sbryantie]

I grew up about 10-15 minutes from Parkland. I’ve frequented that area, as I had many friends that lived there. Now I live in Broward County, Fort Lauderdale. As everyone else is, we are absolutely shaken up. Anywhere I go, it’s being talked about. People are visibly upset, shocked, and scared. I know this is always said, but I never thought it’d happen here. No one did.
The fact that multiple warnings signs and calls/tips went ignored is extremely disheartening. Now that social media is so prevalent in almost everyone’s life, it has become not only a place where warning signs can become revealed, but also a great source for evidence. Youtube, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, etc need to have a better reporting system, that is taken seriously. People tend to say things online that they wouldn’t normally say, but as someone earlier stated- there needs to be repercussions. Most often after a shooting, there is a digital footprint left by the suspect, warning signs. I noticed earlier this week, when I tried to report something on Facebook that you aren’t able to write anything about your issue, or send them a screenshot or anything. So you have to pick from their preset options. What I was trying to report, wasn’t a direct comment made by the individual or a post, but it was a series of screenshots of a conversation between 2 people and the one who posted it was not the issue, it was the other person in the screenshotted conversation. I don’t know how reporting things works, so I didn’t want to report the persons comment of posting the pictures, since they didn’t do anything wrong. But since social media is often times very telling, the whole reporting system needs to be beefed up, as well as shared between different agencies. If the YouTube comment about being a professional school shooter were shared with Broward officers, perhaps one of the times they were called to the residence, a different course of action would’ve been taken. When someone close to Cruz called the FBI to report a tip- in a perfect world- they could’ve pulled up all of his information in one place, this information sharing system. So they have a tip from a source close to him, multiple alarming comments online, several guns, history of violence and killing animals, an expressed interest in school shooting, his disciplinary actions at school including the fact that he wasn’t allowed to bring a backpack to school at one point (think about that, not allowed to bring a backpack to school), history of mental health with stopped treatment (violation of HIPAA, I know), a previous called in tip to the FBI, etc etc..and a cookie cutter profile becomes crystal clear of someone who is extremely likely to commit a violent crime. As far as where to go from there in my perfect world, I don’t know- but I think this idea of an information sharing system could have the potential to uncover many planned attacks.
Sorry this is so long 😬

 

[Betty P]

I agree. Holding LE and other governmental agencies accountable for doing a poor job should be done quickly and with enough penalty to create beneficial changes. It can be done, there is no excuse not to.

JMO.

I am holding Nikolas Cruz accountable for those deaths. He alone, meticulously planned and executed mass murder of 17 innocent people. He is pure evil personified and I'm shocked that anyone would want to blame others for his horrible acts.

There's no justification in people letting him off the hook simply because of his political views.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

NC fought, terrorized, stalked, and threatened other individuals and he didn’t get arrested by local LE? He probably was 18 at this point & a legal adult. If he had been dealt with appropriately for just these instances (& we know there were more) it would’ve at least prevented him from buying a gun & it would’ve started building a criminal law record, which is important.

We need to open juvenile records

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[Betty P]

NC fought, terrorized, stalked, and threatened other individuals and he didn’t get arrested by local LE? He probably was 18 at this point & a legal adult. If he had been dealt with appropriately for just these instances (& we know there were more) it would’ve at least prevented him from buying a gun & it would’ve started building a criminal law record, which is important.

Perhaps this behavior was ignored because of the subculture of that area. Perhaps there's a belief that its more important to ensure that upper middle class kids be forgiven "youthful indiscretion" so they can purchase weapons legally. If so, I hope community leaders are now reconsidering these beliefs.

 

[RANCH]

I am holding Nikolas Cruz accountable for those deaths. He alone, meticulously planned and executed mass murder of 17 innocent people. He is pure evil personified and I'm shocked that anyone would want to blame others for his horrible acts.

There's no justification in people letting him off the hook simply because of his political views.

Yes. He alone killed all of those people and deserves punishment. I'm not going to get into politics because it's not relevant to anything I've posted.

However, no matter what punishment he receives it will not prevent future mass killings. Holding LE accountable for their failures and wishing for them to never drop the ball like this ever again is my hope. JMO

 

[cujenn81]

Looking at Nikolas Cruz, he is clearly a dangerous injustice collector.

On Wound Collectors
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201509/wound-collectors

Murderous Envy
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/keeping-kids-safe/200905/murderous-envy

Nikolas Cruz is pathologically envious as he is very obsessed about his girlfriend. He got expelled because of it as he attacked the ex-girlfriend's boyfriend. Envy is a common characteristic of injustice collectors.

Alleged school shooter was abusive to ex-girlfriend: classmate
https://nypost.com/2018/02/15/alleged-school-shooter-was-abusive-to-ex-girlfriend-classmate/

Alleged school shooter Nikolas Cruz threatened to kill his ex girlfriend — and was expelled after fighting with her new boyfriend, classmates revealed Thursday.

“The reason he got expelled was because he was fighting with his ex-girlfriend’s new boyfriend,” Connor Dietrich, 17, a junior at Florida’s Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, told The Post.

“He stalked her and threatened her. He was like, ‘I’m going to kill you,’ and he would say awful things to her and harass her to the point I would walk her to the bus just to make sure she was OK. We all made sure she was never alone.”

The Dangerous Injustice Collector: Behaviors of Someone Who Never Forgets, Never Forgives, Never Lets Go, and Strikes Back!
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/vio.2014.1509

Identifying The Next Mass Murderer—Before It’s Too Late
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...ntifying-the-next-mass-murderer-it-s-too-late

Psychology of Terrorism - National Criminal Justice Reference Service
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/208552.PDF

Terrorists are injustice collectors. It is not the sole reason, but a major factor.

Revisiting Adam Lanza: The Official Sandy Hook Report
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...ing-adam-lanza-the-official-sandy-hook-report

Lanza is consumed by pathological envy.

Elliot Rodger-My Twisted World
http://abclocal.go.com/three/kabc/kabc/My-Twisted-World.pdf

Envy is a major theme in Rodger's manifesto.

Seung Hui Cho’s Manifesto
https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/cho_manifesto_1.1.pdf

Like Rodger and Lanza, envy consumes Cho.

Websleuth Radio Interview Tina Meier
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2013/09/30/tricias-true-crime-radio-adult-cyber-bullying

Tina Meier's description of Lori Drew at the 20:40 mark describes Nikolas Cruz. There is also Investigation Discovery Web Of Lies Friend Request. In both cases, they are consumed by envy and are negativistic. They are very resentful and unhappy people. They are perpetual victims. They were avoided by people. Meier's description of Drew is also similar to Jodi Arias, Yoselyn Ortega, David and Louise Turpin, Howell Donaldson, Stephen Paddock, Devin Kelley, Omar Mateen, Seung-Hui Cho, Adam Lanza, Eric Harris, Elliot Rodger, and Osama bin Laden.

I found this dissertation to be really interesting.

'A Psychoanalytic View of the Psychopath'

http://www.yorku.ca/rweisman/courses/sosc6890/pdf/meloypaper-psychopathy.pdf

I don't know definitively if NC is a psychopath, but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he is.

Anyway, the linked essay talks about how the characteristics of a psychopath are fueled by the absence of emotional attachment to others.

It says, "attachment is a biologically-based, species-specific behavioral system which serves the survival of the infant by maintaining the closeness of the caretaker... it is deeply rooted in mammals, but absent in reptiles." (Oddly enough, this is the reason some psychology professionals refer to that empty eyed look of his as a "reptilian stare".)

"Bowlby (1969) regarded the elements of detachment to be apathy, self-absorption, preoccupation with nonhuman objects, and no displays of emotion. He initially described it as “affectionless psychopathy” in a sample of juvenile thieves, and believed it was caused by constant maternal rejection.”

"Raine, Brennan, and Mednick (1997) demonstrated in a large cohort of Danish adult males that birth complications and maternal rejection during the first year of life predisposed them to the early onset and sustained patterns of violent criminality. Gacono and Meloy (1994) found in multiple samples of antisocial children, adolescents, and adults that the texture response, a Rorschach measure of attachment, was less frequent than in normal samples. Meloy (1988) described this measure as a somatosensory analog for early skin contact with the mother, the first means of affectional relatedness and perhaps the genesis of secure attachment, albeit missing in the psychopath."

(Depending on the amount of time that passed between NC's birth and his adoption - as I've seen conflicting reports about this - he may not have received sufficient affection during early infancy, which could have led to a failure of attachment.)

"Sadism, the experience of pleasure through the dominance and suffering of another, is most clinically evident in childhood cruelty toward animals, particularly domestic pets. The infliction of suffering is the child’s attempt to defend against his own helplessness through the exercise of omnipotent control over another object. Gleyzer, Felthous and Holzer (2002) showed that a history of animal cruelty is significantly associated with an adult diagnosis of antisocial personality disorder and polysubstance abuse."

"What is emotionally absent in the psychopath is most important. More mature feelings that require whole object relatedness and a capacity for secure attachment are missing. These include anger, fear, guilt, depression, sympathy, jealousy, gratitude, empathy, remorse, sadness, loneliness, and reciprocal joy–emotions that are broad, deep, and complex. Instead, the emotional life of the psychopath centers on his internal management of envy (Kernberg, 1984) and shame (Kohut, 1968), two affects that often precede intentional destruction of the object in
real life. The damaged object diminishes envy since there are no longer any qualities worth possessing; the damaged object diminishes shame since it can no longer threaten as a source of humiliation."


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