FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #2 *Arrest*

[x_files]

From news reports, it sounds like the school did all it could. They expelled him so he would no longer be a danger to students. They continued to have good security at the school and rehearsed drills in the event of such an incident. But NC outwitted them. It would have been better had he not been allowed access to deadly weapons, especially the AR-15, a weapon specifically designed for military combat - killing as many people as possible in a short period of time.

If LE/FBI refused to arrest him they didn't have any other option except to expel and hope he didn't return. LE/FBI left them sitting ducks.

 

[Gardenista]

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/37...d-him-to-school?amp&__twitter_impression=true

Three students who said they knew the teenager accused of carrying out a deadly school shooting in South Florida this week claim they previously reported him to school administrators, BuzzFeed reported on Saturday.

According to BuzzFeed, the three students - Dana Craig, 16; Matthew Rosario, 16; and Enea Sabadini, 17 - said they reported Nikolas Cruz, 19, to school administrators after he displayed erratic and threatening behavior.

"Im going to watch ypu bleed," read an Instagram message sent under Cruz's name to Enea in 2017, when students said Cruz was no longer at the school. "iam going to shoot you dead." Another message said Enea "stole my ex."

“I’m going to get you and I’m going to kill you because you took this person away from me. I’m going to kill your family,” Dana remembered the messages saying. Dana no longer has the messages because they were removed using Instagram’s “unsend” direct message function. Two classmates and one adult — who didn’t want her name used because she didn’t want to get in trouble with her job — told BuzzFeed News that Dana told them about the troubling messages at the time.

Matthew said Cruz whispered threats to him in his fifth-period engineering class. “I turned around. He would be staring, or I don’t know how to explain it, whispering threats,” Matthew said.

“It would be like: ‘I hate you,’ and ‘I’ll kill you,’ he said.

But in August 2017, about a year after everything began, Enea again received intensely threatening messages from a now-removed Instagram account @nikolasjacobcruz — which he believes belonged to Cruz.

The messages to Enea said, "I am going to enjoy seeing you down on the grass," "Im going to watch ypu bleed," "iam going to shoot you dead," and included a photo of guns.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/remysmidt/cruz?utm_term=.poP33YK2w&bftwnews#.bsvxxvJBa

 

[x_files]

There is nothing they can do there is no money where are they gonna put him?

The expelled him cause they were petrified

see virginia massacre dude history oh my god

and james holmes batman ugh

and roger eliot there is no where to put them the parents were affluent and educated they called the system that day and they did not do anything there is nothing to do

$$$$

I lived this for 17 years

no $$$

no such thing as long term facilities anywhere

google it

His mother had money she could have sought to instutionalize him. There's no way I'd raise a violent child/teen in my house. Harm an animal you're gone. That was the first red flag that shouldn't have been ignored by anyone.

 

[x_files]

"Im going to watch ypu bleed," read an Instagram message sent under Cruz's name to Enea in 2017, when students said Cruz was no longer at the school. "iam going to shoot you dead." Another message said Enea "stole my ex."

“I’m going to get you and I’m going to kill you because you took this person away from me. I’m going to kill your family,” Dana remembered the messages saying. Dana no longer has the messages because they were removed using Instagram’s “unsend” direct message function. Two classmates and one adult — who didn’t want her name used because she didn’t want to get in trouble with her job — told BuzzFeed News that Dana told them about the troubling messages at the time.

Matthew said Cruz whispered threats to him in his fifth-period engineering class. “I turned around. He would be staring, or I don’t know how to explain it, whispering threats,” Matthew said.

“It would be like: ‘I hate you,’ and ‘I’ll kill you,’ he said.

But in August 2017, about a year after everything began, Enea again received intensely threatening messages from a now-removed Instagram account @nikolasjacobcruz — which he believes belonged to Cruz.

The messages to Enea said, "I am going to enjoy seeing you down on the grass," "Im going to watch ypu bleed," "iam going to shoot you dead," and included a photo of guns.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/remysmidt/cruz?utm_term=.poP33YK2w&bftwnews#.bsvxxvJBa

Sounds like a psychopath.

 

[CARIIS]

I wonder what his parents did to seek treatment? Why was he left alone unsupervised after the first attempt to harm animals?

on the one police dispatch we have details on there was a credentialed henderson community mental health professional AT HIS HOME

there was a DCF caseworker AT HIS HOME that night

We will find more of this IMO

there is no where to put anyone

The only way that can happen is the community mental center and DCF had contact with the family system

DCF and therapist do not show up when LE is called -- there were case files open LE knew he was dangerous mom knew he was dangerous his therapist knew he was dangerous his neighbors knew he was dangerous his school knew he was dangerous his peers knew he was dangerous

there is nowhere (obviously) to put him long term

it is sadly that simple

The mom did access treatment Henderson was involved so when someone asks what did mom do mom got community mental system involved

there is no way DCF and a therapist from Henderson community is at his home without a case file for each open



sorry

• 

  Originally Posted by jjenny
  She actually purchased the guns for him. He had no money and barely left the basement of the house. She apparently felt they were bonding over his love of guns.
  
  "His mother, Nancy Lanza, a gun enthusiast, legally obtained and registered a large collection of weapons and would often take her sons to shooting ranges."
  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...heir-guns.html
  
  
  
  I find that disturbing. Couldn't they bond over camping instead? or any other outdoor/indoor sport or activity?​
  
  
  
  
  Reply Reply With Quote ​
  
  
  
• Remove Your Th
  
  there are very sad and compelling emails between her and his father
  
  find them
  
  there was nothing that would help her or adam the emails were utterly compelling and a sad indictment of USA and mental health
  
  find the emails
  
  they are compelling
  
  Iwe are slueths I am not doing it
  
  here are google searchs :
  
  Holmes dr fenton duty to warn campus cops
  
  google
  
  cascade mall shooter autism++ parents
  
  google
  
  fort lauderdale shooter kicked out of whatever military thing he was dong
  
  google
  
  virginia massacre cho threat assessment failure
  
  google
  
  roger elliot parent welefare request day of massacre
  
  google
  
  planned parenthood guy neighbors were petrified and notified people
  
  google
  
  the fort hood guy colleagues held meetings to figure out what to do about there colleague
  
  Pulse google
  
  Mateen reported for work and told colleague that he spent the night before looking up antipsychotic meds all night -- google omar's wife within 24 hours telling the world he suffered with bipolar google her being told by our FBI not to say anything anymore
  
  
  google the dallas cop killer in the barbershop
  
  
  sleuth
  
  
  
  
  
  

 

[Betty P]

If LE/FBI refused to arrest him they didn't have any other option except to expel and hope he didn't return. LE/FBI left them sitting ducks.

True, though I don't think FBI was involved at that point. Pretty sure it was being handled by local LE. IIRC, he had been expelled from school the year before the mass murder.

What if FBI had followed up on the later tips? What would they have been able to do? Question him, investigate and maybe arrest him? He may have spent some time in jail, but not a lot as, at that point he had only made threats.

Eventually, he would have been released, still full of hate and anger and probably more determined to kill people (prisons don't do rehab). He'd probably go right back out to buy or reclaim his AR-15 and ammo and do the same thing, either at the school or some other public venue. I'm not letting the FBI off the hook here, but JMO, nothing would have stopped him from eventually doing the same thing, just a few years later. If we want to prevent these attacks, there's much more we need to do.

 

[x_files]

on the one police dispatch we have details on there was a credentialed henderson community mental health professional AT HIS HOME

there was a DCF caseworker AT HIS HOME that night

We will find more of this IMO

there is no where to put anyone

The only way that can happen is the community mental center and DCF had contact with the family system

DCF and therapist do not show up when LE is called -- there were case files open LE knew he was dangerous mom knew he was dangerous his therapist knew he was dangerous his neighbors knew he was dangerous his school knew he was dangerous his peers knew he was dangerous

there is nowhere (obviously) to put him long term

it is sadly that simple

The mom did access treatment Henderson was involved so when someone asks what did mom do mom got community mental system involved

there is no way DCF and a therapist from Henderson community is at his home without a case file for each open



sorry

• 

  Originally Posted by jjenny
  She actually purchased the guns for him. He had no money and barely left the basement of the house. She apparently felt they were bonding over his love of guns.
  
  "His mother, Nancy Lanza, a gun enthusiast, legally obtained and registered a large collection of weapons and would often take her sons to shooting ranges."
  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...heir-guns.html
  
  
  
  I find that disturbing. Couldn't they bond over camping instead? or any other outdoor/indoor sport or activity?​
  
  
  
  
  Reply Reply With Quote ​
  
  
  
• Remove Your Th
  
  there are very sad and compelling emails between her and his father
  
  find them
  
  there was nothing that would help her or adam the emails were utterly compelling and a sad indictment of USA and mental health
  
  find the emails
  
  they are compelling
  
  Iwe are slueths I am not doing it
  
  here are google searchs :
  
  Holmes dr fenton duty to warn campus cops
  
  google
  
  cascade mall shooter autism++ parents
  
  google
  
  fort lauderdale shooter kicked out of whatever military thing he was dong
  
  google
  
  virginia massacre cho threat assessment failure
  
  google
  
  roger elliot parent welefare request day of massacre
  
  google
  
  planned parenthood guy neighbors were petrified and notified people
  
  google
  
  the fort hood guy colleagues held meetings to figure out what to do about there colleague
  
  Pulse google
  
  Mateen reported for work and told colleague that he spent the night before looking up antipsychotic meds all night -- google omar's wife within 24 hours telling the world he suffered with bipolar google her being told by our FBI not to say anything anymore
  
  
  google the dallas cop killer in the barbershop
  
  
  sleuth
  
  
  
  
  
  

At his that night.
Feb 13th? The night before or during another event?

 

[x_files]

True, though I don't think FBI was involved at that point. Pretty sure it was being handled by local LE. IIRC, he had been expelled from school the year before the mass murder.

What if FBI had followed up on the later tips? What would they have been able to do? Question him, investigate and maybe arrest him? He may have spent some time in jail, but not a lot as, at that point he had only made threats.

Eventually, he would have been released, still full of hate and anger and probably more determined to kill people (prisons don't do rehab). He'd probably go right back out to buy or reclaim his AR-15 and ammo and done the same thing, either at the school or some other public venue. I'm not letting the FBI off the hook here, but JMO, nothing would have stopped him from eventually doing the same thing, just a few years later. If we want to prevent these attacks, there's much more we need to do.

All great questions. I do not have the answers. If he was indeed mentally ill, the mother should have instutionalized him after violent threats and assault.
He should have been arrested, firearms removed after the first threat to kill his ex-gf.
Then this should have prevented from legally obtaining a firearm in the future. It could have slowed him down.

 

[MsFacetious]

Except you cannot force people to take meds except in extreme cases. The young man I coparent has a moderate intellectual disability. If he were to ever refuse to take his meds, the system cannot make him.

I think it should be "you can do jail time for DUI or you can agree to the medication implant."
I have an uncle who just got arrested for his 12TH DUI. This time he t-boned someone on his way home from his parole officers office. Things can be done, we have the technology and we need to utilize it. Give people a choice, take the meds or be kept in a secure location.

His mother had money she could have sought to instutionalize him. There's no way I'd raise a violent child/teen in my house. Harm an animal you're gone. That was the first red flag that shouldn't have been ignored by anyone.

I don't think institutionalizing someone is as easy as you think.

 

[x_files]

I think it should be "you can do jail time for DUI or you can agree to the medication implant."
I have an uncle who just got arrested for his 12TH DUI. This time he t-boned someone on his way home from his parole officers office. Things can be done, we have the technology and we need to utilize it. Give people a choice, take the meds or be kept in a secure location.



I don't think institutionalizing someone is as easy as you think.

What if the mother refused to raise him out of fear? She had a younger son and herself to protect. It seems she had the money to send him to a private instution.
There's no way I'd allow a violent person to remain in my house.

 

[RANCH]

I think it should be "you can do jail time for DUI or you can agree to the medication implant."
I have an uncle who just got arrested for his 12TH DUI. This time he t-boned someone on his way home from his parole officers office. Things can be done, we have the technology and we need to utilize it. Give people a choice, take the meds or be kept in a secure location.



I don't think institutionalizing someone is as easy as you think.

What's the difference between keeping a person in a secure location if they don't take their meds and institutionalizing a violent child? Adult vs minor?

 

[jjenny]

It's too bad she couldn't have put him into an instution. Why submit to daily abuse/violence?

It's not easy to put someone into institution. Didn't we close most mental hospitals?

 

[Lilibet]

I suppose that this nightmare might have been headed off if everyone who was ever given information about NC, from mental health professionals to school officials to LE/FBI acted on the reports. But the big question is “what actions can they take to prevent this?”

I hate to be negative about prevention, but we live in a free society. Mental health professionals usually do not have the power to have someone locked up in an institution for more than 72 hours, school officials could only expel him and ban him from campus, LE/FBI can’t arrest and hold people for verbal/written threats (under what law and for how long?). He owned his guns legally (unfortunately), but if it wasn’t guns, it would be a bomb or something else. An “injustice collector” will find a way to have his revenge. We can say “shoulda, coulda, woulda” about authorities and laws until we run out of breath, but what actions and laws are actually possible?

If I see a neighbor kid hurting or killing animals, I can call LE and they will talk to him. Maybe his parents will take him to a counselor. But usually that kind of kid is already beyond help, as NC clearly turned out to be. We just don’t have the ability nip this in the bud and prevent all these tragedies, as long as there are people like NC walking freely among us. Unfortunately, the price of prevention is the loss of freedom for all, and for some people unfairly. So how far does society go to achieve prevention? These are questions that need to be asked, and I doubt many will like the answers.
JMO

 

[RANCH]

It's not easy to put someone into institution. Didn't we close most mental hospitals?

I think you're right. Maybe we need to look at changing that for the truly mentally ill. JMO

 

[x_files]

It's not easy to put someone into institution. Didn't we close most mental hospitals?

Maybe in Florida but they still exist in other states.

 

[enelram]

I read today in NY Post that the younger brother turns 18 next week. If he can only be held for 12 hours due to his age,
I wonder if he will be put out of the home he was staying in. My guess is that the mother in that home is the one who
notified FBI of NC, since the article quoted her saying she told NC he could not be violent in her home and have a gun.
Sounds like she may have booted him out.
So what about the younger brother?

 

[Lilibet]

Maybe in Florida but they still exist in other states.

Very few AFAIK, and the laws “protect” the mentally ill from being locked up. Many of the homeless wandering the streets of our town are mentally ill, with nowhere to go. Most are harmless, but also vulnerable. And they can’t be forced to take medication.

 

[x_files]

Very few AFAIK, and the laws “protect” the mentally ill from being locked up. Many of the homeless wandering the streets of our town are mentally ill, with nowhere to go. Most are harmless, but also vulnerable. And they can’t be forced to take medication.

A conundrum. Seems no real solutions then. mass shootings will continue to escalate until it affects a lawmaker directly and then only then maybe laws will change. Until then we are all just hoping & praying our kids aren't next. Just wish prayers could stop bullets.

 

[Inthedetails]

What if the mother refused to raise him out of fear? She had a younger son and herself to protect. It seems she had the money to send him to a private instution.
There's no way I'd allow a violent person to remain in my house.

What private institution?

I know someone with a violent teen. There is essentially no help for families. Cops are called, situations temporarily diffused, different schools are attempted and then kicked out of, other children in the family sent to live with relatives for their saftely...the family survives until the child is an adult and moves out....and then hopes the child doesn't end up in jail (or hopes the child DOES end up in jail, to be honest....but without harming someone else, of course).

It's horrible.

jmopinion

 

[Latestforever]

I find that disturbing. Couldn't they bond over camping instead? or any other outdoor/indoor sport or activity?

AL was a very complicated person. His parents pretty much divorced over him. Dad was out of there, Mom stayed as a prisoner pretty much to Adam. She made a critical mistake by leading him into gun exploration and ownership. He pretty much ran the show around the house. He even at one point would not even communicate in person with his mom, only through email. While holed up in his room- in the same house, can you imagine that? She did try to get him help, but he refused and she gave in. He killed her before going to the elementary school and .......