FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #2 *Arrest*

[Tricia]

We are allowing 1 gun control debate on Websleuths. CLICK HERE to join the discussion.

If anyone mentions the gun debate someone please, post this link to show them where to go for gun talk.

If anyone keeps posting about guns in this thread please alert and I will take care of it.

Take the gun discussion to this thread, please.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?365927-Gun-Control-Debate

 

[x_files]

What private institution?

I know someone with a violent teen. There is essentially no help for families. Cops are called, situations temporarily diffused, different schools are attempted and then kicked out of, other children in the family sent to live with relatives for their saftely...the family survives until the child is an adult and moves out....and then hopes the child doesn't end up in jail (or hopes the child DOES end up in jail, to be honest....but without harming someone else, of course).

It's horrible.

jmopinion

Each state must be different because they still exist maybe not enough of them.

 

[x_files]

AL was a very complicated person. His parents pretty much divorced over him. Dad was out of there, Mom stayed as a prisoner pretty much to Adam. She made a critical mistake by leading him into gun exploration and ownership. He pretty much ran the show around the house. He even at one point would not even communicate in person with his mom, only through email. While holed up in his room- in the same house, can you imagine that? She did try to get him help, but he refused and she gave in. He killed her before going to the elementary school and .......

Not sure how parents can deal with it. I know I would not.

 

[x_files]

What private institution?

I know someone with a violent teen. There is essentially no help for families. Cops are called, situations temporarily diffused, different schools are attempted and then kicked out of, other children in the family sent to live with relatives for their saftely...the family survives until the child is an adult and moves out....and then hopes the child doesn't end up in jail (or hopes the child DOES end up in jail, to be honest....but without harming someone else, of course).

It's horrible.

jmopinion

It seems this is a huge issue with little to no solutions. Maybe positive change can start here.

 

[jjenny]

AL was a very complicated person. His parents pretty much divorced over him. Dad was out of there, Mom stayed as a prisoner pretty much to Adam. She made a critical mistake by leading him into gun exploration and ownership. He pretty much ran the show around the house. He even at one point would not even communicate in person with his mom, only through email. While holed up in his room- in the same house, can you imagine that? She did try to get him help, but he refused and she gave in. He killed her before going to the elementary school and .......

If you have a very abnormal son who is holed up in your basement, it might be a good idea to not buy him assault weapons. I am just saying.

 

[Inthedetails]

Not sure how parents can deal with it. I know I would not.

Same here. These situations break families, break parents, break siblings.

In regards to prevention, we here at WS know that a child harming an animal is an early indication that violence will escalate in the future. What leads to the desire in a young child to harm animals? Does anyone have some info on that??

Seems like we need to get in front of that issue....indications look to me that we (as a culture) are ignoring the importance of the early childhood years. Am I naive? Can we "nuture" the babies, toddlers, pre-schoolers to prevent later violence and rage? Are we (as a culture) shirking our responsibilities to the very young?

I ask this in sincerity. I am at a loss at how to respond to these repeated, repeated, repeated acts of violence among our young people. We adults need to respond, but how?

We can't keep this up.

jmo

 

[jjenny]

Same here. These situations break families, break parents, break siblings.

In regards to prevention, we here at WS know that a child harming an animal is an early indication that violence will escalate in the future. What leads to the desire in a young child to harm animals? Does anyone have some info on that??

Seems like we need to get in front of that issue....indications look to me that we (as a culture) are ignoring the importance of the early childhood years. Am I naive? Can we "nuture" the babies, toddlers, pre-schoolers to prevent later violence and rage? Are we (as a culture) shirking our responsibilities to the very young?

I ask this in sincerity. I am at a loss at how to respond to these repeated, repeated, repeated acts of violence among our young people. We adults need to respond, but how?

We can't keep this up.

jmo

A lot of this is likely genetic.

 

[Latestforever]

If you have a very abnormal son who is holed up in your basement, it might be a good idea to not buy him assault weapons. I am just saying.

No freaking kidding, you can say that again.

 

[x_files]

Same here. These situations break families, break parents, break siblings.

In regards to prevention, we here at WS know that a child harming an animal is an early indication that violence will escalate in the future. What leads to the desire in a young child to harm animals? Does anyone have some info on that??

Seems like we need to get in front of that issue....indications look to me that we (as a culture) are ignoring the importance of the early childhood years. Am I naive? Can we "nuture" the babies, toddlers, pre-schoolers to prevent later violence and rage? Are we (as a culture) shirking our responsibilities to the very young?

I ask this in sincerity. I am at a loss at how to respond to these repeated, repeated, repeated acts of violence among our young people. We adults need to respond, but how?

We can't keep this up.

jmo

yes, early signs of psychopathy can be treated successfully but must be quick and extensive. There's hope. But we need trained professionals to see the red flags and to help desperate parents who seek it.
https://www.npr.org/2017/05/24/5298...ew-treatment-strategies-for-child-psychopaths

 

[x_files]

If you have a very abnormal son who is holed up in your basement, it might be a good idea to not buy him assault weapons. I am just saying.

It wouldn't be my first or last choice. I'd see if he could safely express himself through art, music anything healthy!!!

 

[Gardenista]

Nikolas Cruz may have never killed if society took more action on link between animal abuse and mass murderers

The People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals said in a statement that it comes as no surprise that prior to killing 17 people, Cruz was abusive toward animals. “The FBI has identified cruelty to animals as a warning sign of more violence to come, and many school shooters and serial killers have a history of abusing animals.”

Indeed, from the “Boston Strangler” to John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, and now Devin Kelly and Nikolas Cruz, mass murderers often use animals as a form of practice before moving onto humans.

A 2013 study of school massacres in particular, found that 43% of the perpetrators committed animal cruelty prior to the event.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/animal-abuse-scrutiny-stop-killers-nikolas-cruz-article-1.3826671

 

[WichitaFalls]

Confessed Florida school shooter Nikolas Cruz would throw chairs, a dog bowl, a drinking glass — seemingly anything he could get his hands on — during violent assaults on his adopted mother, according to details of the more than 30 police incident reports revealed Saturday.

More at link:
https://nypost.com/2018/02/17/school-gunman-has-history-of-abusing-his-mother/

 

[Latestforever]

From this article previously posted:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...al-nikolas-cruz-abusive-mom-article-1.3826633

"Among the more disturbing reports was a Jan., 15, 2013, incident where Nikolas — then age 14 — refused to attend school. He exploded in anger after Lynda Cruz hid her son’s Xbox as a punishment.

The youth “retaliated and threw a chair, dog bowl and a drinking glass across the room” before denouncing his mom as a “useless b---h,” according to the police report.

Nikolas Cruz was handcuffed and held in the back of a police car until a counselor from a nearby behavioral health facility arrived with prescribed medicine that calmed him down."


XBOX- what games was he playing? I am sorry to be a echo chamber, but were they first person violent video games? This is a discussion that has to be added to the national dialogue. IMO it cannot be ignored, it is one of the elephants in the room.

 

[x_files]

Nikolas Cruz may have never killed if society took more action on link between animal abuse and mass murderers

The People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals said in a statement that it comes as no surprise that prior to killing 17 people, Cruz was abusive toward animals. “The FBI has identified cruelty to animals as a warning sign of more violence to come, and many school shooters and serial killers have a history of abusing animals.”

Indeed, from the “Boston Strangler” to John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, and now Devin Kelly and Nikolas Cruz, mass murderers often use animals as a form of practice before moving onto humans.

A 2013 study of school massacres in particular, found that 43% of the perpetrators committed animal cruelty prior to the event.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/animal-abuse-scrutiny-stop-killers-nikolas-cruz-article-1.3826671

Thank you! I thought it was common knowledge to look for these red flags!

 

[Inthedetails]

yes, early signs of psychopathy can be treated successfully but must be quick and extensive. There's hope. But we need trained professionals to see the red flags and to help desperate parents who seek it.
https://www.npr.org/2017/05/24/5298...ew-treatment-strategies-for-child-psychopaths

Thanks for the link. Interesting reading (and gives some hope - just a bit).

Even with the toddler in the article who exhibited psychopath behavior, she was adopted at 6 months....can't really know for sure (at least from the article) if she suffered something in her newborn weeks/months that triggered the lack of empathy? Lack of bonding with an adult?

I guess I'm hoping (grasping at straws) that the solution is just to be loving, attentive, engaged with babies, toddlers, pre-schoolers...and then all will be well. YES, I KNOW this is not the entire solution, and I'm sad that it isn't. But my gut tells me we could do better (as a culture).

This case is depressing and I'm fighting the desire to sink into that feeling of being overwhelmed and instead feel called to DO SOMETHING. What? I don't know. I don't know! I wish we knew the path out of this.

jmo

 

[Spellbound]

Our children should not be growing up like this ... :tears:

[FONT=&quot]Four children with hands around each other approach a vigil post at Park Trails Park in Parkland honoring the 17 students that were shot at the high school.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]C.M. Guerrero cmguerrero@miamiherald.com
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article200598934.html#storylink=cpy
[/FONT]
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article200598934.html

 

[x_files]

Thanks for the link. Interesting reading (and gives some hope - just a bit).

Even with the toddler in the article who exhibited psychopath behavior, she was adopted at 6 months....can't really know for sure (at least from the article) if she suffered something in her newborn weeks/months that triggered the lack of empathy? Lack of bonding with an adult?

I guess I'm hoping (grasping at straws) that the solution is just to be loving, attentive, engaged with babies, toddlers, pre-schoolers...and then all will be well. YES, I KNOW this is not the entire solution, and I'm sad that it isn't. But my gut tells me we could do better (as a culture).

This case is depressing and I'm fighting the desire to sink into that feeling of being overwhelmed and instead feel called to DO SOMETHING. What? I don't know. I don't know! I wish we knew the path out of this.

jmo

There's hope. I swear I'm losing faith after every mass shooting though.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...11/can-we-identify-psychopathy-in-young-child

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

https://youtu.be/yoATVFZLsTI

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Deleted post

 

[kaen]

I feel it effective to not bring in numerous other topics when we are crying out for a specific change. We must focus on how authorities and agencies can investigate, and effectively handle these active shooting incidents upon our public.

By generalizing, addressing numerous other topics, and throwing our hands up, it becomes too big and overwhelming hence the laizzez-fairre attitude of our agencies/authorities.

Let’s address one topic at a time—demand accountability—demand change of protocols if needed for active shooters.

You may be right about generalizing but it is important to recognize that all that you want to hold accountable may have been performing to the best of their duties given the constraints they have----person power, monetary and legal. If we want to be effective do the assessment and put the resources there to fix the problems. The assumption that all of the people and agencies fail is not a fair assumption until WE know that they did.

I am all for people losing their jobs if they failed to perform. That said, when looking at performance, it is not feasible to do if you don't look at resource limitations. For example, a teacher who has a class of 30 and books for 15 will probably not have children perform as well as a teacher who has the resources needed to do the job. If the school board did not have resources to upgrade security at a school, we must accept that what they did was their best. If a school board has millions for training and items requested but fails to train and utilize the funds should absolutely accountable. If protective services don't have enough people hired to do the home visits, we can't complain that it takes time to get out to a home--they must prioritize and will surely get it wrong.

I am surely no throwing up my hands. I am saying that calling for blood can scapegoat and give many the sense that justice was achieved. But that can be short sighted and lead to the problems down the road. I don't want that. I assume you don't either. I see the focus on "bad" agencies without looking at policy and funding is throwing up the hands. I guess i see it just the opposite that you do.