17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #20

[Isabelle]

HLN initially reported Zimmerman was going to speak for the first time since the incident. I heard it with my own ears. We should all just turn them off and send them a message!

 

[Elley Mae]

I'm not sure what "the majority of the assumptions" are, exactly. That Zimmerman profiled Trayvon? For many of us it's not an assumption, rather an unavoidable conclusion. That Zimmerman has issues with aggression? His arrest record is a fact, if his conviction record is not. That he's previously found black males suspicious? His 911 call record suggests that's true. That he slapped, hit and threw women? Its not disputed thus far.

I find it very hard to pin down what can legitimately be called an assumption in this case, versus what people find to be rational conclusions based on fact.

To me, in my world, knowing what I know and coming from where I come from, its a gross assumption to take George Zimmerman at his word. Facts contradict his story; ergo I can't find one single reason I should believe anything he says at all.

What story has he told that dispute what the facts are, curious. :waitasec:

 

[Isabelle]

HlN saying GZ is going to speak in 30 min.

Octobermoon, you heard the same thing I heard. that GZ was going to speak. Now it's changed to his lawyers are going to speak on his behalf.

Hopefully the lawyers will tell us they are doing this because GZ is otherwise indisposed (arrested)!

 

[vlpate]

Are we sure that Zimmerman's call actually came in at 7:09:34 pm? The timeline I've been following as I've tried to reason out what happened came from here: http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...appened-the-night-trayvon-martin-died/1223083

If the call came in at 7:11, then Zimmerman saw Trayvon start running at 7:13 and he hung up with the operator at 7:15. Cell phone records show that Trayvon's girlfriend called him at 7:12 and the call ended at 7:16 just after she heard Trayvon ask why Zimmerman was following him and Zimmerman ask why Travyon was there. As I understand it since the record came from the bill, it's possible that the call ended between 7:15:30 and 7:16 since the minutes are rounded up on the bill (I could be wrong about this). 911 calls started coming in at 7:16. The shooting was at 7:16:41 and the police arrived at 7:17.

That timeline would allow for Trayvon to either run or walk fast and be nearly home when overtaken just after 7:15 by a Zimmerman who had continued to follow while speaking to the operator, if one believes the girlfriend's account which is that Trayvon told her that Zimmerman was behind him again. Her account that he told her about a suspicious man following him, that she urged him to run, and he said he would just walk very fast fits with this timeline of Zimmerman saying Trayvon was running at 7:13. Her account and Trayvon's cell phone bill fits with the reports of an argument reported by at least one witness before the scuffle or wrestling and wailing and yelling for help prompted a 911 call at 7:16. It also leaves very little time before Trayvon was shot. It's hard for me to believe that the confrontation could have become life and dead for Zimmerman so quickly and makes me think that it's more likely that an angry Zimmerman shot Trayvon because Trayvon fought back not because his life was in danger.

The call came in at 7:09 - the operator started his log at 7:11. If you look at the actual documents, this is in the notes. A lot of people think 7:11 for this reason. The g/f's call came in within seconds of when GZ told the dispatcher TM was running.

 

[2goldfish]

I would love to hear what he has to say?

I hope he will sincerely and with contrition apologise to trayvon's family for what he did.


...that prolly isnt what will happen but I wish it would. it wont erase what he did and he still deserves the manslaughter charge that I so hope is coming but for the sake of being human I hope he will apologise.

 

[iluvmua]

What story has he told that dispute what the facts are, curious. :waitasec:

From what I know GZ's story has been consistant from the beginning.

I guess the witnesses are lying as well.

 

[ThoughtFox]

So suspicion requires an illegal act? For me, it's out of the ordinary behavior that creates suspicion. Any person milling around in the rain at dark, looking at houses and not making a bee line for home would arouse suspicion for me, though likely not enough to call police. But then we haven't had burglaries here lately. When we had a spate of beer thefts from garage fridges last summer, I might've inquired myself.

Don't know that answer as fact? Do you know how many white teens have been walking in the rain at dark, looking at houses in his tenure there?

With Trayvon and with other "suspects" that Zimmerman phoned in, he didn't know whether they lived there or not. How could he possibly know everyone who had a right to be there?

My son has a friend two streets over who lives in a rather new condo community. Most people there don't know him, even though we have lived here nearby for 20 years and he went to elementary school on the land where the condos are now. He has often walked there in the dark...*shudder*...probably wearing a hoodie, to visit his friend.

My other son is 16 and walks home from the school bus, about a half-mile, every day wearing his regulation school hoodie. Today he came in carrying a SunnyD he had bought at school, so yeah, he had something in his hand.

I live in a small town, mixed-race, and I often see young people out walking and looking around. I can't for the life of me understand why that would bother someone? It would be different if they were lurking in someone's backyard or trying to open a window - then I would call 911. On a public street - no way. :cow:

 

[LolaMoon08]

See if my favorite Vodka comes out better than the bar did? Drink up!

 

[Isabelle]

If these attorneys are really representing GZ, is it really a good thing for them to speak on his behalf, while this case is still being investigated. I don't think so!

 

[LolaMoon08]

From what I know GZ's story has been consistant from the beginning.

I guess the witnesses are lying as well.

We don't even know GZ's "story." All we know is what his family and friends say... until we get his original statments, we won't know his side.

MOO

 

[Kimster]

Let's stay on task and leave the chit chat for the private forum thread as much as possible. :tyou:

 

[Donjeta]

Is it possible that the reason why Trayvon may have taken longer than absolutely necessary to get home was that he wanted privacy for his phone call with his girlfriend? It would be kind of normal for teens not to want their parents to listen in I think.

 

[raeann]

This is what I cannot get past...

I understand Zimmerman calling the non-emergency line. Fine! What I will never understand him doing is getting out of that truck and following Trayvon, even after the dispatcher told Zimmerman "we don't need you to do that." He continued.

It is insulting, at least to me, that they are trying to make us believe that Zimmerman was innocently checking the street address and when he was walking back to his car, Trayvon attacked him from behind. It makes no sense! Trayvon was running/walking fast AWAY from George! IMO.

The fact that Zimmerman had lived in that community since 2009, and the little tidbit Frank T. revealed about Zimmmerman walking around with a 100 pound dog and a loaded gun when he did his rounds, tells me a lot about George Zimmerman. The fact that Frank T. has said George had "fed up" issues, tells me all I need to know about George Zimmerman. IMO.

George knew that neighborhood like the back of his hand, IMO. There was no checking street addresses... and if he really wanted to check a street address, he should have drove around. If he was that fearful of this suspicious kid... he would have stayed in his car. He was not afraid of Trayvon and took it upon himself to catch back up with Trayvon and confront him. IMO.

Frank T. should have felt some obligation to tell the HOA the things he knew about George. The way he explains it... George was not of sound mind to even be in that position.

MOO

BBM

This is the whole crux of the case right here. The street addresses are easily visible and well lit on each house...FROM THE STREET. He could have checked for an address on the street he was already on....because that is the FIRST location that a LE officer would be able to get to from the entry gate. He could have driven to check the back gate to see if TM was leaving the area, he could have then driven to check the address on the opposite street.....ALL of these things would be the logical way to do whatever he was trying to achieve. They only become MORE logical when you add in the rain factor.

The ONE and ONLY thing that he could not do from his car was to CONFRONT and APPREHEND TM on the sidewalk between the buildings. The only possible reason to leave his vehicle was to get onto that center sidewalk and to instigate an interaction.

 

[Isabelle]

Who's a legal person here? Does this make sense, having lawyers speak on the behalf of a person who is actively being investigated??

 

[ThoughtFox]

If the atts are at the courthouse speaking for George, then maybe this is it? They said on the Today Show that if George was arrested we wouldn't hear anything else from him.

 

[Isabelle]

See if my favorite Vodka comes out better than the bar did? Drink up!

Can't read the label but sure is good!

 

[JeannaT]

I know a lot of people who mentor children and they have pictures galore of them with the children. They're very proud of what they do and they are very proud of the children they mentor.

I personally do not think he mentored children? Maybe he went fishing with Joe Oliver and his children (if he has any??) and he considers that mentoring?

MOO

Each school district may be different - we don't photograph the children in the mentoring program - it's confidential.

We also don't use any kind of social media/contact with them which includes facebook, texting, phone calling, etc.

Hands off, camera's away - but maybe not every school district is that way.

 

[Gin]

Octobermoon, you heard the same thing I heard. that GZ was going to speak. Now it's changed to his lawyers are going to speak on his behalf.

Hopefully the lawyers will tell us they are doing this because GZ is otherwise indisposed (arrested)!

JMO--and a bit of speculation:

I'm thinking the attorneys are having a hard time getting GZ to follow directions. The usual Standard Operation Proceedure--lay low, stay off the net, stay off the tv, and...please, please, please lease:don't send your dad and friends out to "defend" you on live TV.

They probably thought "holy cow, what else can happen?" when they heard GZ was going to have a news conference. :doh:

Not too surprised GZ is no longer the announced star of the 4:30 show.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Is it possible that the reason why Trayvon may have taken longer than absolutely necessary to get home was that he wanted privacy for his phone call with his girlfriend? It would be kind of normal for teens not to want their parents to listen in I think.

The parents weren't home, but the little (future step-)brother was, so your idea makes sense about that too. Maybe Trayvon wasn't supposed to be talking to his girlfriend and didn't want someone to tattle? That sounds like a teenager to me.

 

[Boytwnmom]

that a person who calls 911 on a boy who is walking was motivated by something. What could it be? Maybe because he was a black person walking because nothing he was doing was objectively suspicious and yet old GZ riled himself into a frenzy based upon someone walking. He almost immediately concluded a whole range of things, all negative... "there's something wrong with him...he's on drugs...he's up to no good...he's reaching in to his waistband...he's got something in his hand...he's running" at which point he decides it's a good idea to grab his gun and follow this dangerous criminal he's just called 911 on and continues to do so after being told not to because, he's sick of these a#$holes always getting away.

What a$%holes would he be referring to? We're all been around and we're entitled to draw reasonable conclusions based on the evidence presented which is what we're doing. And many of us believe GZ was engaged in racial profiling, deciding that Trayvon was a criminal because some robberies had been committed by black people so when he saw this black boy who was unknown to him he decided he was one of those robbers. I find that both racist and ridiculous. There are almost 300 units in that complex and many black families live there, all of whom have friends and family members who may also visit. Trayvon was no more likely to be a criminal than any other individual walking down the street there.

Racial profiling is not used because it is not useful in identifying any particular individual who is more likely to be a criminal. It is more relevant to use behavioral profiling which would mean he would be right to be suspicious IF Trayvon were engaging in any activity objectively suggestive of criminal propensity like checking out windows and doors, going up to garage door openers, looking in windows, hiding behind bushes, going from house to house looking in windows or doors. Walking in the rain is not a suspicious activity.

To many of us all of this makes a great deal of sense, very real and very disturbing sense.

So, if they are not suspicious to you, they shouldn't be to anyone else? And if they are, that proves racism? Makes little sense to me, but okay!