17 y/o Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #20

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You are correct. You can certainly follow someone if you so desire. What isn't likely is that you won't be confronted for doing that. When I was younger, I most certainly would have run my a$$ off to get away from that person. Nowadays, I'd just turn around and tell them to buzz off.

JMO, MOO, IMHO, TM didn't start the confrontation or assault GZ. How convenient for GZ that the only other witness to what happened is DEAD. Shot a close range, in the chest. Armed with only his fists. None of GZ's story makes sense to me, other than the part where he, armed with a gun, began to pursue a young, black man through the complex.

TM lived in Florida so let us assume for the moment that he was familiar with the SYG law. However much any of you want to deny this, there is an automatic response to young black men in a neighborhood, especially if you don't know them. He is a visitor at someone's home. He's been to the store and he's on his way home. He's 17, out by himself and talking on his cellphone with his girlfriend. He notices he's being watched and then followed by someone he doesn't know. He's unfamiliar with the complex and is trying to get his bearings so he can get back home.

What do you imagine his first reaction would be? Fear? Anger? Uncertainty? He puffs up his 17 yo chest and turns to fight someone who he may think is carrying a gun? My money is on him trying to run. I have been wrong before and I may be wrong about this but that's how I see it.

:moo: Every time I post

I doubt TM thought GZ was carrying a gun
 
Where did that information come from? It's not against Home Owner Assn rules to carry a gun, I don't think. I don't even think it's againt Crime Watch rules - surely a LOT of crime watch captains have CWPs. I would think a great number of them.

Before I posted something I'd be sorry for, I went to find the rules and guidelines we received from the PD when we became involved in our NW group. It was 7 years ago so I had to dig around a little.

We are specifically told NOT to arm ourselves and pursue the suspect. We can be charged with a felony if we do so and someone is injured due to our actions. Oregon is also a SYG state. You don't get to go and and play Rootin' Tootin' Ranger cuz somebody is wandering around your neighborhood and you don't know them.

I've stated before I live in a boring neighborhood, on a boring street and nothing exciting has ever happened here. My husband owns 2 pistols and 1 shotgun. None of those weapons has been moved since we got here 13 years ago. Most people aren't carrying weapons with the expectation of using them and a NW person most certainly should not. However much they want to, this case proves why that's a bad idea. I sure don't want the elderly couple living behind us, who call about the kids playing and the noisy garbage trucks!, having a gun and threatening to use it.
 
I doubt TM thought GZ was carrying a gun

I don't know whether he did or not but, like many other things in this case, we'll never know because TM is DEAD. :banghead:

I very carefully used the word "assumed" because I don't know. I suspect young black men are taught a lot by their parents, including how dangerous it can be to be black in the wrong place.

Do you have information to the contrary?
 
Not necessarily...making sure you have all your ducks in a row is a good thing before you make a hypothetical arrest. It takes time..and we've seen that something too quick (aka a snap decision for no investigation) can cause a lot of trouble. It seems like she is being careful, which is good for both sides. A speedy arrest just to make the general populace happy will not do any good for Z, who does gave to right to a fair trial. Slowness is good...and it shows no indicator if there will or will not be an arrest.
RIGHT. :) and hopefuly at the end of this they will correct this law.
 
Sounds like a great idea, I guess we are just waiting for the investigation to tell us if there will be a case. because if so? then they cant come out and tell us yes.

What investigation?

The crime took place at the crime scene. That's where the evidence would have been. Hopefully someone bothered with that, but knowing how the rest of this case went down I am doubtful. From appearances, the day after the crime you could have spread a blanket and had picnic lunch right where Trayvon died.

And it's not like they are talking to witnesses again. They didn't want to talk to them in the first place apparently, but there is no point re-interviewing them again now. Nor, apparently, did they feel it necessary to test Zimmerman for alcohol or drugs. Hopefully they took some pictures of his injuries, but again who knows.

In my opinion they are stalling for time, hoping this thing blows over.

MOO etc
 
People have been saying that they did not. Not sure of the source for this.

He was not tested for drugs or alcohol before he left the police station. If I'm not mistaken, it's in the police report. Pretty sure that's where I read it.

:moo:
 
I have included links to the Burglery reports (none of which occurred on Feb 2, 2012, the date Taffe said the burlary of his home occurred and to the 911 calls Zimmerman made, one of which was on 2/2/2012-it's on page 45 of 47. It seems Taffe has told a few versions of what happened-there are more quotes from him "out there"...

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/329597-sanford-burglary-reports.html

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documen...327330/george-zimmerrman-911-call-history.pdf

http://newsroom.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/21/former-neighborhood-watch-captain-speaks/

In his CNN interview, Taaffe credited Zimmerman with preventing what he said would have been a ninth burglary by reporting a suspicious black man trying to break into Taaffe's home.

City documents show that Zimmerman did call police on February 2 to report a black man was possibly trying to break into the house.

By the time police arrived, no one was at the scene, according to a call log posted on the city website.


<Mod Snip>

Frank Taaffe, a former neighborhood watch captain, told CNN's "Starting Point" that his house was in the process of being robbed on Feb. 2, but Zimmerman called Sanford police, who thwarted the robbery.

"My house was being robbed, and George on his nightly rounds watched this burglary in progress, called Sanford P.D., waited for them, and helped ensure that nothing bad happened to my house," Taaffe said. "And it's documented in the 911 call for February 2. That was my residence that George Zimmerman helped stop." Zimmerman shot and killed Martin on Feb. 26.

"Neighbor-hood, that's a great word," Taaffe said.

Taaffe said that "young black males" were the perpetrators in the attempted robbery of his home. "We had eight burglaries in our neighborhood all perpetrated by young black males in the 15 months prior to Trayvon being shot," Taaffe said. "It would have been nine."

Thanks, do you have access to the police reports saved or have you found them online? TIA

BEM: How is it possible to know this? He was pretty specific about where the youth lived.
 
I don't know whether he did or not but, like many other things in this case, we'll never know because TM is DEAD. :banghead:

I very carefully used the word "assumed" because I don't know. I suspect young black men are taught a lot by their parents, including how dangerous it can be to be black in the wrong place.

Do you have information to the contrary?

And sadly the reason TM may not have run was because he was black. jmo
 
If they were attacked by the person they followed, it was self defense.

You have the wrong definition of the self defense law. A person must be "in fear for their life" in order to qualify as self defense.

If I attack someone, say, slap their face, they aren't entitled to whip out their gun and shoot me. If they claim "I was in fear for my life because someone slapped my face", they're a liar and the police department should blow them off.

<modsnip>
 
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation...60/1?AID=4992781&PID=4169795&SID=glyltywszwn9

no accusation of premeditated murder in the Martin case, so a first-degree murder charge is not an option
IMO, if person choses to carry a gun and chase someone, then shoots........premeditated.........are they going for manslaughter???

Here is the entire statute for homicide. There is so much, there is justifiable homicide and then excusable homicide. I believe for first degree it has to be planned and thought out, I don't think that applies here either.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0782/0782ContentsIndex.html&StatuteYear=2011&Title=-%3E2011-%3EChapter%20782
 
I was watching the nightly news and saw she even took the time, and invited the Martin family inside to explain what this meant and I would guess to answer any questions they may have.

I am really glad she did that. :)
They deserve answers, that is a good start.
 
I don't know that they did forensics on the clothes, but I know from hearing Tracy Martin, they did a tox test on Trayvon.

I keep bringing up riots because I think they're preparing for them. There was an MSM article about riot strategizing. IMHO.

It seems to me if they planned to charge GZ with a crime, they would have done it already. But I could be wrong.
May I have a link to the MSM article about riot strategizing? I am curious to read it. Thanks.
 
FWIW, my son attends High School in our mildly affluent part of town. He told us that out of several dozen students he has heard voice an opinion, not one of them thinks Trayvon was an innocent victim, and almost 75% think Zimmerman was attacked and in fear for his life. None of those have any reason other than that is what he said.

Personally I think both he and Zimmerman possibly stereotyped one another. No way do I think Zimmerman is blameless and no way do I believe his account in full. I think it's sad that young people are apparently buying into the prejudices of their elders. But then what can you expect..
 
I don't know whether he did or not but, like many other things in this case, we'll never know because TM is DEAD. :banghead:

I very carefully used the word "assumed" because I don't know. I suspect young black men are taught a lot by their parents, including how dangerous it can be to be black in the wrong place.

Do you have information to the contrary?

If TM wanted to evade GZ he easily could have done so imo. That's why I think he wasn't worried about a gun. In fact I think TM was outraged that GZ was following him and that's why he attacked him.
 
Usualy those who carry - carry most of the time if not all the time.

that is what I hear. what do I know.
Me No like Gun....

Most of the guys my husband hangs out with have their concealed permits and I would guess most are carrying 80% of the time. Myself and most of the other wives got their permits just to avoid something happening like swapping vehicles with my spouse and not realizing I have a concealed weapon in the vehicle.
 
What investigation?

The crime took place at the crime scene. That's where the evidence would have been. Hopefully someone bothered with that, but knowing how the rest of this case went down I am doubtful. From appearances, the day after the crime you could have spread a blanket and had picnic lunch right where Trayvon died.

And it's not like they are talking to witnesses again. They didn't want to talk to them in the first place apparently, but there is no point re-interviewing them again now. Nor, apparently, did they feel it necessary to test Zimmerman for alcohol or drugs. Hopefully they took some pictures of his injuries, but again who knows.

In my opinion they are stalling for time, hoping this thing blows over.

MOO etc
They did go back to talk to people who made the 911 calls but you are right we don&#8217;t know if the neighbors
at large were interviewed. we don&#8217;t know.
I did see early on some yellow tap in the immediate area, but from all we can see a real investigation
did NOT take place....But what about FBI we do not know what they are doing at all do we.

So I hope there is a proper investigation -- fingers crossed.

I am sure they are also scrutinizing this law.
 
Here is the entire statute for homicide. There is so much, there is justifiable homicide and then excusable homicide. I believe for first degree it has to be planned and thought out, I don't think that applies here either.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0782/0782ContentsIndex.html&StatuteYear=2011&Title=-%3E2011-%3EChapter%20782

Well, this part sure clears it up...not:

The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree,

:waitasec:
 
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