17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #13

[justthinkin]

Sorry Papa,
I am not saying these reports are wrong That is NOT what I am saying at all:
I am so not trusting experts on weekends,
I don’t know why rush out on the weekend to do a report?
Why would the DA come out last Sunday to the scene of the shooting?
Those thing never sit right with me at all.
So If you don’t mind I will wait for some confirmation on these reports.

Didn’t the guy at the funeral Parlor say that TM had no marks on him at all.
I am totally confused with screams like that
whoever is screaming should have some marks of a struggle.

BBM. Very good point. Whoever is screaming is apt to be the one getting the worst beating.

 

[legalmania]

Just got around to reading my morning copy of the Orlando Sentinel. Editorial there on the fact that it has been 4 months since the FAMU hazing death and no arrest there either....My but the wheels of justice sure turn slowly.

Use to do law for a living and it almost killed me.

 

[SuziQ]

He is comparing the tape of him talking to the tape of someone screaming. So why is he expecting 90 % match?

You would have to ask him. I'm just posting what a few overlooked.

 

[vlpate]

(snip)
The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.

It's experts like these that lose cases and create reasonable doubt in cases like Casey Anthony. They are a dime a dozen. No doubt they were paid for their trouble.

JMO

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Here's a thought I had earlier concering the "beating GZ's head against the sidewalk" and all that has entailed.

Some of you might remember Josie Lou Ratley. That was a case down here - still in the courts. About a girl texting to a boy. The boy got enraged over a comment she made. He put on his steel toed boots and jumped on his bicycle. Pedaled over 2 miles to get to the school and once there, found her and darn near beat her to death.

Wayne Treacy was the kid and he beat Josie's head into the concrete. Josie lived and she is now so brain damaged that she is having to start learning all over - colors, numbers, ABC's.

Point here - Treacy beat her head against the concrete. IF GZ was really beat against the concrete I honestly don't think he would have gotten up and just walked into the police station less than an hour later.

Now while Treacy also kicked Josie in the head with those boots - the part about beating her head into the concrete is what just keeps coming back to me.

IMHO there is just no way that Trayvon beat GZ's head against the concrete. I just can't buy it.



JMHO

 

[Etilema]

BBM. Very good point. Whoever is screaming is apt to be the one getting the worst beating.

Perhaps the one screaming is the one with a gun pointed at him?

 

[Nova]

They didn't say it wasn't george, they said it was 48% matched to George. This doesn't really mean anything..

Actually, every news account to date has said exactly that: a 48% match means it is NOT GZ.

 

[songline]

I think I hear help in the beginning and no in the end.

I hope not-- I hope you dont hear that.
NO at the end does not sound good.

 

[LambChop]

If an expert testifies to that figure with no other explanation, perhaps, but that will take incompetence on the part of both the expert and the prosecutor.

I think juries tend to ignore expert testimony largely when they get diametrically opposed opinions and don't have the scientific knowledge to sort them out. So unless the defense can come up with an expert who says the screams ARE Zimmerman's, I think the jury will assume they are Martin's.

And the last thing GZ would want is for those tapes to be played to a jury. jmo

 

[m00c0w]

Trayvon wouldn't be a control sample imo, he'd be another subject.

I mean "control" in the manner that it would validate the results of the test. There aren't traditional variable roles in this type of test, however you can still check for reliability and validity. You can have a test that is reliable every time you run the test, but that does not make it valid. These are basic concepts in science.

The only way, in a test such as this, to actually validate the results would be to get a positive result in the manner expected.

 

[songline]

It's not impossible but the article said it was a group of black men. That bothers me. Was there proof they were all black?

I dont know if there was proof for all 8 roberies,
PROOF would mean they know how to go find them
I think....

 

[RANCH]

If an expert testifies to that figure with no other explanation, perhaps, but that will take incompetence on the part of both the expert and the prosecutor.

I think juries tend to ignore expert testimony largely when they get diametrically opposed opinions and don't have the scientific knowledge to sort them out. So unless the defense can come up with an expert who says the screams ARE Zimmerman's, I think the jury will assume they are Martin's.

Your right. It depends on the defense and the jury. But using things like a 48% match certainly gives ammunition to the defense. And an out to a jury who is predisposed to a certain side.

 

[iluvmua]

I'm curious why seeing those tapes would be helpful?

To see If he actually went to the store. Just because the media reports that he did does not mean that he actually went to the store.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I'm curious why seeing those tapes would be helpful?

I personally want to know if Zimmerman had made a trip to that store earlier to buy alcohol? Based on statements by some people he worked with, he was a cool guy until he started drinking? Since they didn't do any tests on him to determine whether or not he had been drinking, I think it would be interesting to see if he made an earlier trip to the store?

Also, he says he was going to the store when he spotted Trayvon (some say Target?), but I would like to make sure he didn't go to the 7-11 and that is when he seen Trayvon walking back to the complex and waited for him?

 

[Nova]

If both of them are screaming then I would think Zimmerman should come in at 50 %.

No, just no. Look, I don't completely understand the science of voice comparison either, but your and my "common sense" use of numbers isn't going to help us here.

Your "50% reasoning" would only make sense if the expert were analyzing total sound (and half of it came from GZ). That's not how it works. The expert isolates voices first and then evaluates each one individually.

 

[SuziQ]

Because there's always the question of the reliability of the test. What if the test itself is flawed?

They could very well try to confirm it was Martin's voice, and due to a downfall of the software or because there were two screams that are conflated, or because the quality of the recorded screams are dubious, the results may turn out exactly the same or worse.

BBM. Here is a link for Easy Voice Biometrics. Included are video tutorials. Maybe this will help answer questions.

http://www.easyvoicebiometrics.com/index.php?app=cms&ns=display&ref=splash

 

[Donjeta]

The software has only been out for around three weeks. I'm not sure how anyone could gauge its reliability in that time, much less in case where they only have one side of the story and cannot test the other.

Link please?

The article says he used the same technology to testify in January and in that testimony he said he did the tests last year.

Did an updated software version of existing methodology just come out?

I would hope that in the development of voice recognition software that is to be used in court contexts the developers would do reliability research.

If not, it is really useless and letting people testify using the method would be a travesty of justice.

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/local/article/Expert-Davalloo-made-911-call-2753115.php

 

[Peliman]

BBM. Very good point. Whoever is screaming is apt to be the one getting the worst beating.

That's why I'm curious about a medical examiners findings on Trayvon. I'm curious about other findings besides a gunshot wound.

 

[OneLove]

He is comparing the tape of him talking to the tape of someone screaming. So why is he expecting 90 % match?

Because he is a well trained, experienced, very competent professional in this field?? Oh, AND highly regarded.

<modsnip>

 

[vlpate]

He was asked to meet the patrol car. He knew not to follow, he was asked politely not to follow to stay with the car meet LE. Obviously some do not understand the importance of following instructions from LE and not pursue a subject. According to LE comments to the press following personel on their personal time is considered stalking and they will be arrested. So I guess what GZ did was against the law. jmo

BEM: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.html

"Dispatcher: Alright George, we do have them on the way, did you want to meet with the officers when they get out there?"