17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #13

[LambChop]

If they did provide a sample of TM's voice ,it didn't make it to the Orlando Sentinels experts. If the Orlando Sentinel had information regarding FBI testing why wouldn't they use that instead of the "Forensic Experience" guy.

FBI or SA wouldn't release that to the paper just because they wanted to test their voices they're in the middle of an investigation. I'm just saying it's possible OS got wind of the results and decided to do their own with just GZ's voice. They know LE is doing it so they figured they had nothing to loose by just doing GZ's voice. jmo

 

[jjenny]

BEM: Where?

I hear the scream of someone desperate for help, Trayvon was past puberty. It could have been either of them.

Or it could have been both of them. If they are both fighting it only stand to reason both could be screaming.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I, too, have been told I sound younger than I am.

IMO, GZ is a young man. He isn't even 30 yet, is he?

Also, IMO, if/when this goes to trial we are going to see the prosecution expert say one thing, and the defense expert say another. The evidence in this case is just too much open to interpretation.

George is not old by any means. 28-years-old is still young. I'm just a tad older than him and I am still young, darn it! :floorlaugh:

 

[jjenny]

You forgot the rest....
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

(snip)
The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.

He is comparing the tape of him talking to the tape of someone screaming. So why is he expecting 90 % match?

 

[legalmania]

IMO when the police dispatcher said don't follow him that should have ended that. Zimmerman should have stopped. I think from that point on Zimmerman took the law into his own hands.

 

[LambChop]

I was referring to Owen, and that entire paragraph is:



It seems like that last part is a pretty big exception to me. He only has half of the puzzle. You cannot determine validity in a certain scenario without a control group. "Reasonable scientific certainty" means just that - he's taken what he has into account and can reasonably make a hypothesis, however, he cannot confirm it was Trayvon's voice.

If they don't have TM's voice for comparison they are left with process of elimination. Right??? Why would they need a control group? They are comparing the voice on the 911 calls, and they have quite a few, with GZ's voice pattern which they have. There were only two people involved. jmo

 

[claudicici]

Honestly I was almost hoping the scream would turn out to be GZ.
Because he is alive.
Realizing it was Trayvon screaming in agony and now he is dead is just too much to take.

 

[RANCH]

FBI or SA wouldn't release that to the paper just because they wanted to test their voices they're in the middle of an investigation. I'm just saying it's possible OS got wind of the results and decided to do their own with just GZ's voice. They know LE is doing it so they figured they had nothing to loose by just doing GZ's voice. jmo

If the Orlando Sentinel "got wind" of any LE/FBI test results why wouldn't they publish it? The only thing that comes to mind is to protect a source. But we don't know do we?

 

[JeannaT]

IMO when the police dispatcher said don't follow him that should have ended that. Zimmerman should have stopped. I think from that point on Zimmerman took the law into his own hands.

Well, yes. But the dispatcher didn't say that.

The dispatcher said "we don't need you to do that". IMHO, meaning, "we can find him, thanks anyway." This is in no way the same thing as LE saying "get back".

 

[Concerned Papa]

I was referring to Owen, and that entire paragraph is:



It seems like that last part is a pretty big exception to me. He only has half of the puzzle. You cannot determine validity in a certain scenario without a control group. "Reasonable scientific certainty" means just that - he's taken what he has into account and can reasonably make a hypothesis, however, he cannot confirm it was Trayvon's voice.

There was a control group. It numbered two. One has been scientifically eliminated. What does a reasonable analysis tell you as to whose screams those are?

 

[rotterdam]

I don't think GZ was in shock. He didn't have the right affect or tone when he was supposedly suspicious of Trayvon. I have wondered if when he had his hands on Trayvon after the shooting if he was looking for a weapon or just discovered all he had on him was the Skittles, Tea and phone, and that is why he was pacing with his hands on his head. I wonder if the police got samples of the blood that was supposedly on him at the scene. I am guessing they didn't. I can't believe that they would allow the EMTs to "clean him up" before doing that. According to a retired NYPD officer they didn't bag his hands and shoes either, which is always protocol in a shooting.

IIRC GZ thought it would all blown over according to his brother. Killing another human being that looked suspicious, was not really such a big deal . Excuse while I puke:sick:

 

[m00c0w]

If they don't have TM's voice for comparison they are left with process of elimination. Right??? Why would they need a control group? They are comparing the voice on the 911 calls, and they have quite a few, with GZ's voice pattern which they have. There were only two people involved. jmo

Because there's always the question of the reliability of the test. What if the test itself is flawed?

They could very well try to confirm it was Martin's voice, and due to a downfall of the software or because there were two screams that are conflated, or because the quality of the recorded screams are dubious, the results may turn out exactly the same or worse.

 

[gxm]

I agree. And now that we are reasonably sure the screaming is coming from Martin, I wonder what people imagine was happening? Were TM and GZ wrestling for the gun? Was TM just standing there pleading for his life?

I realize no one knows for sure. I'm just wondering what people think.

I'm guessing that they were both screaming either at different points, or at the same time, during the confrontation. IMO, the audio "evidence" doesn't make this case any less confusing, but then again, I have never thought the audio alone would paint a clear picture of what transpired. I truly believe that we'll never know what really happened.

 

[ynotdivein]

The news on weekends is no less reliable than it is on weekdays. Saturday editions tend to have lower readership than Sundays (though this may have changed somewhat with the advent of online news, the 24-hour news cycle, and the decline of printed papers).

The fact that this hit the OS today doesn't indicate that the voice analyses were inaccurate somehow... IMO it indicates that the results were probably released yesterday, and/or that perhaps the OS was attempting not to fan the flames in this case and so chose to drop the story on the "slowest" of the news days.

Just some thoughts I'm noodling around.

 

[SuziQ]

They didn't say it wasn't george, they said it was 48% matched to George. This doesn't really mean anything..

(snip)
The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.

 

[iluvmua]

Well, I don't know Florida law but if you ask me it's a hate crime under those premises, since GZ didn't actually have any evidence that TM was part of a small criminal subset of black youths burglarizing homes, he just knew that TM was black.

It was dark and raining and according to TM's GF she said that he pulled his hoodie over his head. How in the world was GZ just going to know that he was black.

911 call:

George: Hey we've had some break ins in my neighborhood and theres a real suspicious guy.

911 dispatcher: Ok, is this guy White, Black or Hispanic?

George: He looks Black

 

[songline]

I agree. And now that we are reasonably sure the screaming is coming from Martin, I wonder what people imagine was happening? Were TM and GZ wrestling for the gun? Was TM just standing there pleading for his life?

I realize no one knows for sure. I'm just wondering what people think.

So IF IF IF GZ was attacked and started screaming help, they hit the ground
TM & GZ fight and TM saw the gun and freaks out screaming, cause he lost control of GZ.

 

[RANCH]

IMO when the police dispatcher said don't follow him that should have ended that. Zimmerman should have stopped. I think from that point on Zimmerman took the law into his own hands.

What law did GZ break when he disregarded the dispatchers suggestion?

Do we know for a fact that GZ did disregard the dispatchers suggestion?

 

[Cher352]

I think the prosecutor is doing the right thing not rushing to judgement. Sometimes it takes years for an arrest. I think they are probably looking to see if there were any surveillance cameras or additional witnesses. They also need lab work back the blood evidence, the victims medical findings. I think that within a month or so this will be put in front of a grand jury.

Just got around to reading my morning copy of the Orlando Sentinel. Editorial there on the fact that it has been 4 months since the FAMU hazing death and no arrest there either....My but the wheels of justice sure turn slowly.

 

[m00c0w]

There were only two of them and one has been scientifically eliminated. What does a reasonable analysis tell you as to whose screams those are?

One has been eliminated by a test that hasn't been validated. The media can portray it how they want, but you still need a control in an experiment for a reason. This is why he "stressed" that he did not have Trayvon's voice to confirm.