17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #13

[Boytwnmom]

I just posted about them as I was confused too and read the whole thing to understand the two different tests, one which excluded GZ and the other which concluded it was TM.

And the Martin lawyer on Fox just mischaracterized the results of the sound analysis. He said they said that the voice was Trayvon Martin's, not Zimmerman's. That is untrue. They just said that it's not Zimmerman's, and they stressed that they did not have Martin's to compare.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Yep, that's about right. They got a tape of Zimmerman talking normally and they are trying to compare it to someone screaming. What is the accuracy of what they are trying to do?

If they had come back with the conclusion that these were Zimmerman's screams, would you have these same concerns? I'm just wondering because I was willing to believe they were Zimmerman's screams if it came back as his voice?

 

[Donjeta]

They didn't say it wasn't george, they said it was 48% matched to George. This doesn't really mean anything..

Did you read the article?
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recording, 2 experts say

His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.

Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman.

Another expert contacted by the Sentinel, utilizing different techniques, came to the same conclusion.

Zimmerman claims self-defense in the shooting and told police he was the one screaming for help. But these experts say the evidence tells a different story.

"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman," Owen says,

"I believe that's Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt," Primeau says, stressing that the tone of the voice is a giveaway. "That's a young man screaming."

By my reckoning that's seven different ways they said it's not George.

The 48 % match doesn't mean anything to us because we're unfamiliar with the field but it means something to people who do this for a living and the expert seems to think it means that it's not the same person.

 

[jjenny]

I just posted about them as I was confused too and read the whole thing to understand the two different tests, one which excluded GZ and the other which concluded it was TM.

The who concluded it was TM because person screaming was young (in his opinion)? I don't buy that for a second. You can't determine an age by voice alone. For instance, I sound very young and when people call they ask to talk to my parents.

 

[CathyinTexas]

It is gut wrenching, I can only imagine a parent's nightmare hearing that, knowing that was their child's last moments.

If these are Trayvon's screams ( I do believe that they are ), when GZ just came out and said that he was calling for help but no one came, without being questioned, he had no way to know that the actual cries and shot would be recorded. Did he say this because he thought at that time that it couldn't be disproven? He knew there were screams he would guess that others may have heard screams, but he thinks they'll never be able to prove that it wasn't him if he says that it was?

JMHO

It makes this even more evil in my opinion. There doesn't seem to be a conscience here.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

:fence:

Yep, that's about right. They got a tape of Zimmerman talking normally and they are trying to compare it to someone screaming. What is the accuracy of what they are trying to do?

These are two experts that give testimony in court and get thousands of dollars for doing it.

They know other experts are working on the tapes too and I think they would be the last people in the world that would want to run out and give these results if they can't back them up. More times they are wrong the less they will be called to testify.

 

[Nova]

I'm not sure what you mean by having enough to win? There's no guaranty of a win no matter what evidence you have in a jury trial. I used your words "indisputable evidence" in my post because that's what you hope to see. I was wondering what will happen if we don't see "indisputable evidence".

I'm not sure what started the discussion about "slam dunk cases" and "indisputable evidence". I'm sure we all know those aren't legal terms.

I believe a DA's ethics require her to believe she can prove her case beyond a reasonable doubt. Otherwise, she would be "deceiving" a jury by asking it to convict on evidence she herself believes to be insufficient. As an officer of the court, she isn't allowed to knowingly lie.

In cases where the culprit seems obvious to some (the Ramseys, say), but no charges are filed, a lot of posters will argue that the DA should just "go for it". I don't believe she can just "roll the dice" and "see what happens", not ethically.

 

[RANCH]

He believes it's Trayvon because that's a young man screaming?
Zimmerman ain't exactly an ancient man himself.

I think that the Orlando Sentinel may have had a hard time finding two "experts" to do their testing. So they ended up with Ed Primeau. JMO.

 

[Adrienne37]

They can't. They don't have it. Have we ever heard his voice in the media???? But they do have GZ's. jmo

I haven't heard his voice anywhere but hopefully he had a recorded message on his voicemail on his cell phone or perhaps one of his family members/friends have a message that he might have left them that they saved.




~jmo~

 

[legalmania]

Sanford is considered a high crime area. Is this the reason for Zimmermans actions?

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Sanford-Florida.html

 

[LolaMoon08]

I'm personally amazed at what forensics can do? I'd never be able to be an expert. I'm not interested in disecting bugs, studying plants, smelling human decomposition, listening to voices, etc... but I do love learning about how other people do it.

 

[iluvmua]

Can anyone breakdown what the person screaming is saying?

When I first listened to this tape I thought I heard someone say "Oh My God Help!

 

[songline]

I just went to YouTube and listened to this child's screams of terror for the first time. I purposefully had waited for the news provided by the Sentinel earlier this evening.

I don't see how anyone's very soul can not be troubled by what I just heard. I don't see how a rage can not build for not only his killer, but those who lied to us with their assurances of these primal screams as coming from their kin being beaten by a child.

I dare you to take 47 seconds and listen to the early part of this tape. I dare you to listen and realize that tonight we have been told by TWO experts that the source of these screams is NOT GEORGE ZIMMERMAN.

Trayvon Martin 911 Tape Screaming "Help" - YouTube

Sorry Papa,
I am not saying these reports are wrong That is NOT what I am saying at all:
I am so not trusting experts on weekends,
I don’t know why rush out on the weekend to do a report?
Why would the DA come out last Sunday to the scene of the shooting?
Those thing never sit right with me at all.
So If you don’t mind I will wait for some confirmation on these reports.

Didn’t the guy at the funeral Parlor say that TM had no marks on him at all.
I am totally confused with screams like that
whoever is screaming should have some marks of a struggle.

 

[LolaMoon08]

The who concluded it was TM because person screaming was young (in his opinion)? I don't buy that for a second. You can't determine an age by voice alone. For instance, I sound very young and when people call they ask to talk to my parents.

I can agree with this part. Not the same thing, but I was flying one time and I was in the emergency exit aisle, and the flight attendant came up to me and told me I would have to move because you had to be a certain age to sit in that aisle. I was WAY past that age!

But after they made me read the booklet with the intructions on what my job was (letting everyone off the plane before me in an emergency), I asked them to move me because I wasn't going to agree with that. :floorlaugh:


But yes, I don't agree with them being able to say by the voice "It was a young man." I can see if they were taking Zimmerman's voice and comparing it... maybe?

 

[LambChop]

I think that the Orlando Sentinel may have had a hard time finding two "experts" to do their testing. So they ended up with Ed Primeau. JMO.

I would think TM's family provided the something with TM's voice on it so testing could be done. Either to the FBI and/or SA. It could be the family already knows it was TM on that tape and OS got wind of it and decided to have their own test done themselves just to break the story. jmo

 

[vlpate]

Wow! Thank you, thank you, thank you. Very good post with excellent embedded links. I had not yet read the one that notes the neighbors reporting GZ stalking them also and following them back to their homes. Creeeeeepy. This engenders a whole new batch of questions.

I have questions as well.

"According to the Miami Herald, Zuazo said that three years earlier, Zimmerman attacked her while the two were driving to a counseling session. Zuazo said she popped her gum in his face and he repeatedly smacked her in the face. In January 2002, she added, Zimmerman became enraged that she had come home late. They wrestled and he threw her on the bed, smacking her, according to the newspaper."
Trymaine Lee - Huffington blog(Originally posted by shadowraiths)

George Zimmerman is 28.
So, they lived together in 2001, when he was 17 or 18, that's awfully young, he was just a child. The incident with the phone was worse than the two slapping incidents? I'm assuming so since she only reported only the one.

Popping her gum in his face in a car while he's driving is atrocious behavior....I'd stop the car and make her get out.

 

[Nova]

Imo, this tragic case has nothing to do with racial profiling. Nor do I think this was a hate crime. And yes, I did hear the racial slur in the 911 call. I simply do not feel that slur in conjunction with the unfolding of events, as I presently understand them....

Sorry to snip your excellent post. I hope everyone reads it in its entirety on page 1 of this thread.

But you hint at an interesting question: suppose hypothetically that one believes African-American teens have been committing burglaries in the neighborhood and then getting away because police response times are slow. And further suppose that GZ was fed up and decided that THIS AA teen wasn't getting away, not tonight, enough was enough.

Is that a HATE crime? It has a racial element, certainly, but the animus is directed at a small, CRIMINAL subset of black youths, not necessarily at African-Americans in general. Racism being a complicated impulse, one might well have close AA friends and simultaneously feel a deep resentment at black criminals who were robbing one's neighbors.

Or to put it more briefly, assuming the above, GZ shot TM because GZ believed TM was yet another black youth burglarizing nearby homes, NOT merely because TM was black. Still not self-defense, but is it a hate crime under Florida law?

 

[Donjeta]

Sorry Papa,
I am not saying these reports are wrong That is NOT what I am saying at all:
I am so not trusting experts on weekends,
I don’t know why rush out on the weekend to do a report?
Why would the DA come out last Sunday to the scene of the shooting?
Those thing never sit right with me at all.
So If you don’t mind I will wait for some confirmation on these reports.

Didn’t the guy at the funeral Parlor say that TM had no marks on him at all.
I am totally confused with screams like that
whoever is screaming should have some marks of a struggle.

There is nothing in the article that says the experts did their analyses on a weekend, and this is hardly rushing IMO, Trayvon died more than a month ago and there have been articles coming out most of the days.

 

[Beyond Belief]

I know I am going to have nightmares abt this again tonight. But, now I am wondering if Trayvon really is on top of GZ but because he saw that gun coming out and tried to prevent GZ from getting his hands on it. So it may have been a fight over the gun, but to keep GZ from getting it out. There had to be a very good reason for a fight.

 

[jjenny]

I can agree with this part. Not the same thing, but I was flying one time and I was in the emergency exit aisle, and the flight attendant came up to me and told me I would have to move because you had to be a certain age to sit in that aisle. I was WAY past that age!

But after they made me read the booklet with the intructions on what my job was (letting everyone off the plane before me in an emergency), I asked them to move me because I wasn't going to agree with that. :floorlaugh:


But yes, I don't agree with them being able to say by the voice "It was a young man." I can see if they were taking Zimmerman's voice and comparing it... maybe?

I don't look like a little child but I must sound like a little child because when I get phone calls and answer people ask me if they can talk to my mommy.
:floorlaugh: