17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #13

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That's a would've/could've/should've thing... When you've got a barking dog facing you down you're not concerned about who it belongs to, where it came from. It's the 'MOMENT' that's your immediate concern none of the rest matters... The dog by nature has every right to defend itself from what it perceives as a threat just the same as the man does.



'Reality is a funny thing' this is what can be taken from that. If I had left the house one minute earlier I could have avoided that car accident. It's the way of life weird things happen and 5 seconds here or there can change a world. A whole host of things fell into place that evening in Sanford in such a way that it cultivated into the tragedy we are speaking of today... I'm in no way blaming Martin or Zimmerman for anything in their past.



Fear not for it's no such thing... It's just critical thinking something I too hope a jury would utilize.

I think the major thing to consider is the concept that "laying blame is of no material importance". So, let's use instead the phrase "accepting responsibility", since I, too, agree blame serves no one. Who is responsible and therefore accountable?
IF the man had climbed over a private fence and encountered an attacking dog, he is liable for any injury he does the dog, and the property for that matter, because he made a conscious choice to commit an illegal action. If the dog encountered the man on the man's property, the dog owner is liable for injury to the man or his property because he committed an illegal action.

I feel that leading people to believe that situations like this just happen as a matter of coincidence and that the factors LEADING UP TO the event causing injury is of no importance, even in that moment at hand, is advocating a sense of irresponsibility. It is a sure thing that the factors leading up to and the conscious choices made by people involved have EVERYTHING to do with who MUST accept responsibility after the fact. It's just the way life is. And if we want to use the word "blame" synonymously, it really only makes a difference in that "blame" is more inflammatory from a neurolinguistic perspective than "holding responsibility for" or "holding accountable for" the outcome.

If the outcome caused great harm, who is responsible and accountable, and to what extent? Bring on the investigation. :)
 
Man, I wish he had been arrested for that Domestic Violence thing with his ex-fiance. The world would have been a lot more peaceful if he had?

He would have had to have been convicted, not just arrested.
 
But he was severely injured, one hit away from being in diapers and fed with a spoon for the rest of her life. :waitasec: He could already have had a hemorrhage in his brain that would kill him shortly.

I think I wouldn't stop screaming for help in such a situation.

You hit on something that troubled me the first time I listened to that tape. The fact that the screaming stopped the instant the shot was fired.

I'm trying hard to stay on the fence on this one, but something about that just seemed out of the normal or odd as if the person who'd been screaming was the one that got shot.

If I was ever in any kind of similar situation where I had to shoot someone to save my own life, and I was screaming for help. I think after I did what I had to do, I would be wailing for taking another human being's life. I too would still be pleading for help between my cries.
 
The lower tone of voice right before the gunshot sounds like "no, no". I had to turn the sound up real loud to hear. That tape gave me a very sleepless nite a few nights ago.

I also think it's sounds "no, no" right before the shot.
I hear "help, help" in the beginning.
 
Imo, this tragic case has nothing to do with racial profiling. Nor do I think this was a hate crime. And yes, I did hear the racial slur in the 911 call. I simply do not feel that slur in conjunction with the unfolding of events, as I presently understand them (i.e., from listening to the 911 calls, link ), supports the contention that this tragedy was a hate crime as outlined in the "Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act" ( link ) That is, I do not think GZ targeted and proceeded to shoot Trayvon purely bc he was black.

I think instead, this is a case of a hotheaded, wanna-be cop, who, from my read, regularly harassed neighborhood residents ( link ) and made chronic nuisance calls to the SPD ( link ). Otherwise put, imnsho, this guy was a accident waiting to happen. Someone who was bound to shoot someone, anyone, sooner or later. The recent voice findings ( link ), imho, refutes GZ's claim that the shooting was an act of self defense. Which, again, supports my contention that this guy was a walking time-bomb.

Aside: I wish they would post all of GZ's 911 calls as well as any other voice recordings they might have of the guy, bc, imho, he def sounds intoxicated in this call. ( link ) And, in light of the number of calls he made over the past eight years, I cannot help but to wonder if there might be an underlying substance abuse issue, or possibly even some sort of brain injury, that might explain (not excuse, of course), his, imho, reckless behavior.

^THIS!

This is what I've thought and posted from the very start but would never have been able to sum it up so brilliantly as you have. I do, however, believe he has a propensity toward some racial bias. He's a frustrated wannabe that enjoyed being the HDIC and using that 'power' to bully others. Scary and dangerous - very dangerous.
 
and the martin lawyer on fox just mischaracterized the results of the sound analysis. He said they said that the voice was trayvon martin's, not zimmerman's. That is untrue. They just said that it's not zimmerman's, and they stressed that they did not have martin's to compare.

2-1=1
 
If this guy testifies using things like 48% that it is Zimmerman, a jury could say it's almost 50/50 either way and disregard it entirely. JMO.

IMO they only had GZ's voice pattern to go by. We haven't heard anything with TM's voice. OS would not have access to Martin's voice but I'm sure the FBI has something, a voicemail, a video, something with his voice on it. And I bet the FBI knows exactly who it was and has known for awhile. jmo
 
Anyone know when an OFFICIAL statement might be made by anyone? The differing parties, misinformation, misrepresentation, and "sides" are starting to get tiring. Someone pull this mess together, please?
 
If this guy testifies using things like 48% that it is Zimmerman, a jury could say it's almost 50/50 either way and disregard it entirely. JMO.

If both of them are screaming then I would think Zimmerman should come in at 50 %.
 
Well, they said that Zimmerman's voice didn't pass the "confirmation" threshold. What if Martin's did not, either?

Well, then we would either look for a third person or conclude that the test has no validity due to one or more error factors and should be ignored.
 
I've already explained this.

What happens if Martin's voice scored just as poorly? There's a reason they didn't unequivocally state that it wasn't Zimmerman, and stressed they had not tested Martin's voice.
 
Well, then we would either look for a third person or conclude that the test has no validity due to one or more error factors and should be ignored.
I'd go more with the latter.
 
True, if not Zimmerman's, not yet proven Trayvon's. But it's highly doubtful that a third party ran out there and screamed help help help like bloody murder was happening and then inextricably disappeared the moment of the gunshot. Just sayin.
I'm more saying that the test itself may not be valid in this scenario.
 
Well, then we would either look for a third person or conclude that the test has no validity due to one or more error factors and should be ignored.

Yep, that's about right. They got a tape of Zimmerman talking normally and they are trying to compare it to someone screaming. What is the accuracy of what they are trying to do?
 
I like the other expert, Ed Primeau, methods. Forensic experience. What is that? Can you get a degree in that?
Not all experts rely on biometrics. Ed Primeau, a Michigan-based audio engineer and forensics expert, is not a believer in the technology's use in courtroom settings.

He relies instead on audio enhancement and human analysis based on forensic experience. After listening closely to the 911 tape on which the screams are heard, Primeau also has a strong opinion.

"I believe that's Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt," Primeau says, stressing that the tone of the voice is a giveaway. "That's a young man screaming."

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...cation-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty
 
One of our wonderful members, I forget the username, brought up any tapes that may have been taken at 7-11. At first I was like, what would that have to do with what happened in the complex? Now that I think about it, I think everything leading up to the shooting that night is important.

I don't know how long 7-11's keep their tapes? I can only hope that the LE investigating this shooting had enough intelligence that when they heard Trayvon had gone to the store, that they immediately went and got the tapes.

Also, with the store being so close, that could have been the store Zimmerman was also heading to? I know that Zimmerman said he was on his way to the store, but I would like to rule out that he had already been to the store? Entrance gate cameras should show this too?

Does anyone know what building Zimmerman lived in? Does it show on that map what building he lives in?
i WOULD LOVE TO SEE THOSE TAPES IF ANYONE HAS THEM
FROM THE 7/11
 
it's like with DNA, the higher the "match" the more likely it is the same person. From what I understand the 48% excludes it being GZ's voice. So that method focused on GZ. The other method did not exclude GZ it instead concluded it was Trayvon so essentially one test was a negative for GZ and the other was a positive for Trayvon.

The two experts here actually used different methods to do the voice match. The 48% one was by Tom Owen who used voice identification software, Easy Voice Biometrics" to
say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman.

The other person, Ed Primeau, used
audio enhancement and human analysis based on forensic experience
to conclude:
I believe that's Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt," Primeau says, stressing that the tone of the voice is a giveaway. "That's a young man screaming.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331,0,250481.story

I think they need to compare Trayvon's voice to be conclusive. They only tested Zimmerman's and got a 48% match. Whatever that means
 
I've already explained this.

What happens if Martin's voice scored just as poorly? There's a reason they didn't unequivocally state that it wasn't Zimmerman, and stressed they had not tested Martin's voice.

They can't. They don't have it. Have we ever heard his voice in the media???? But they do have GZ's. jmo
 
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