17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14

[Concerned Papa]

Thanks for the new 'map'. I have a question, and a comment.

Do you know for a fact, that the Location #6 on your map is the exact townhouse that Trayvon and his father were staying at? Or are you guessing by his father saying he was 70 or 100 yards from home?

And, my comment is regarding that early Myfoxorlando article that you relied upon for your #6 porch : There are significant errors in that written article. For one it says they talked with Trayvon's mother, Tracy. The problem with that is that if they talked with a women, it would not be his mother, it might have been his father's girlfriend. If they talked with someone named Tracy, it would have been his father. Surely the reporter and news crew could tell the difference?
For two; the article says George Zimmerman is 25, however, I think he is older than that.
As for the porch comment, it makes no sense, imo.

I believe if you will go back to my post, you will note that my reference to his mother's comment about the porch was simply that I can't get it completely out of my mind. What I RELIED on for this consideration was primarily the observation that of the 884 feet journey of his across this development, every step was straight as a shot towards the shortest way home. No where did he deviate or detour. The timing of his known landmarks clearly establish that observation. I relied for what I clearly indicated as conjecture on my part on an established pattern of movement that I saw no reason to think would not continue.

As for am I guessing about the location of his residence? LOL, if that's what you need to call it, feel free but there's just a touch more to it than that.

Tracy Martin stood on the sidewalk at the spot his son's body was located and said Trayvon's back door was 70 yds, or 210 feet down the sidewalk. Google Earth has a measurement app that calculates distance in feet, inches, miles, or centimeters. Since I have a picture from the video very clearly showing where Mr. Martin was standing when he said that, I pushed a couple of buttons and let GE do the rest.

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

I am not talking about being 'scared' of kids in my neighborhood. I am talking about recognizing the real dangers ever present with the urban experience.

Driving to and from and working in the hardcore center of South Central is no joke. And some of the local dropouts, who lurk the area are not fooling around. If you are not afraid of them then you are foolish, imo.

I haven't had your experience so I can't speak to how I would feel but if calling me foolish makes you feel you are making a point. :what: Have at it. Count me out though.

 

[iluvmua]

If he was not killed on his father's porch, then who's porch was he killed on?

And where does the 70 yards come from? TM's father said that he was found 100 yards from his house.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I'll tell you what - if my child was being pursued by some strange unknown guy in a van who was yelling for him to stop, I would expect him to run away.

If Trayvon had not died tragically, this would sound like every other child molester or kidnapping attempt which we read about every day here on Websleuths. That's why this case sounds upside down to many of us.

The main thing all children in the U.S. are taught from nursery school to high school is to shout at an abductor and run to a porch if they can.

Just because someone is yelling for them to stop doesn't mean that Trayvon should have stopped.

It remains to be seen whether Zimmerman had any injuries from the tussle with Trayvon. But I stand by the those 911 tapes we heard when this story came out. Zimmerman was pursuing a young man without knowing anything about him, and jumping to all sorts of conclusions based on appearances only. He chose not to listen advice from the dispatcher. He chose not to wait for police.

Zimmerman made his own decisions and now he has to live with that, come what may. JMOO :cow:

 

[Isabelle]

If TM was killed on the porch, how did he get in the grass? Could he have lived long enough to move himself there? What of the reports of 2 people fighting on the ground?

Could it be that the back yards are referred to as 'the porch"?

 

[w1df10wr]

If he was killed on his porch then where does the 70 yards come from?

Here is a comment from witness's mom & complex resident, Cheryl Brown - http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article1221799.ece
~Brown stopped and pointed to a patch of shade beneath a scrawny maple tree. "This is where Trayvon was killed," she said. "He was almost home."~

&

~“If Trayvon has made it that far, and Zimmerman is getting out of his truck, why doesn’t Trayvon keep walking?” Lee said. “He’s 70 yards from his house. I think based on the timing of the call and Zimmerman losing sight of him, that he had made it to that ‘T’ [at the end of the path] and was starting to walk towards his house.~

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/31/2725442_p4/what-is-known-what-isnt-about.html#storylink=cpy - ~there are 4 pages total~

~Here is another tidbit from the same page-
THE INVESTIGATION

The investigation began, with detectives interrogating Zimmerman and patrol officers canvassing the 911 callers.

One caller said he had seen a man with a white T-shirt on top of the other. Neither Zimmerman nor Trayvon wore white T-shirts.~

 

[LambChop]

All this talk about TM being killed on the front porch. Clearly this is an inaccurate statement, unless you believe the body was moved dozens of yards. So can we please leave this poor family alone on this point and just chalk it up to a distraught parent who had just lost their son and perhaps didn't parse their words as if they were under oath.

Since the Chief filled the family in on some of the details the family could know details from the statement we don't. Mr. Martin is reported as saying "the porch" and in a recent interview he said TM was 70 yards from home. Is it possible TM was hiding on someone else's porch when GZ found him and asked what are you doing here??? Is it possible GZ knew who lived in that home and thought TM was trying to break in and went after him when TM tried to run away. The fight could have started a couple of houses down with GZ trying to apprehend TM for LE and they ended up on the ground.

It seems strange for Mr. Martin to say the porch and the gf to say he thought he lost him. I sure would like to know where they found the phone. jmo

 

[iluvmua]

I'll tell you what - if my child was being pursued by some strange unknown guy in a van who was yelling for him to stop, I would expect him to run away.

If Trayvon had not died tragically, this would sound like every other child molester or kidnapping attempt which we read about every day here on Websleuths. That's why this case sounds upside down to many of us.

The main thing all children in the U.S. are taught from nursery school to high school is to shout at an abductor and run to a porch if they can.

Just because someone is yelling for them to stop doesn't mean that Trayvon should have stopped.

It remains to be seen whether Zimmerman had any injuries from the tussle with Trayvon. But I stand by the those 911 tapes we heard when this story came out. Zimmerman was pursuing a young man without knowing anything about him, and jumping to all sorts of conclusions based on appearances only. He chose not to listen advice from the dispatcher. He chose not to wait for police.

Zimmerman made his own decisions and now he has to live with that, come what may. JMOO :cow:

GZ was in his truck and where are you getting the idea that GZ was telling TM to stop?

 

[iluvmua]

I thought Mr. Martin said they found his son at 100 yards and not 70 yards?

 

[Adrienne37]

Why not just blow him away as soon as he saw him at the clubhouse? Why wait til he got closer to the homes and get into a struggle before killing him? I understand it's just your opinion, but I would think you would want to form an opinion that is based on the facts.

It's irrelevant at this point because no charges have been filed against Zimmerman nor is it up to me or you to decide that anyway, that's the job of the state's attorney and had they done what they were supposed to have done from the beginning, no one would be pushing for any cause. I could care less what he is charged with, murder or manslaughter. I just want him to pay for what he did to an innocent child. I will always maintain that stalking a kid walking down the sidewalk minding his own business with a bag of Skittles and a can or bottle of iced team and then deciding to shoot to kill them is brutally murdering them.


~jmo~

 

[mikeysmommom]

It's being investigated - NOW. I think what makes people angry is how it was dismissed so quickly to begin with. It very easily could have been swept under the rug if not for Trayvon's parents demanding answers. And more power to them for keeping that wheel squeaking. MOO

How do we know it was not still being investigated and was swept under the rug?IMO Under the law GZ could not be arrested because he said he feared for his life and it was self defense.Just because they did not arrest him does not mean the investigation stopped.In many cases here I have seen weeks,months go by when it seemed a slam dunk case,sometimes it does take time.Is it possible Le was waiting for forensics to come back from clothing to determine what happened?Even now the parents want the DA investigated,since higher ups have taken this over I would think everyone who was part of Le decision to not arrest GZ is being questioned as to why and how they all came to that decision. I had a loved one murdered of course families want answers right away but unlike CSI TV shows answers can take months if not years.JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

What makes you think you'd see gunpowder residue on his clothing?

I am trying to figure out in my mind if the struggle was on the ground at the time of the shot or if they ended up on their feet with them separated.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

If he was not killed on his father's porch, then who's porch was he killed on?

And where does the 70 yards come from? TM's father said that he was found 100 yards from his house.

He was not killed on anyone's porch. There is no evidence of that at all, according to the 911 callers and the two women who saw GZ and whom he told to call the police immediately after the shot.

That's another reason I think that article is just bad, inaccurate reporting.

 

[Boytwnmom]

he was going to commit a burglary or that he HAD committed a burglary? I'm trying to understand why GZ was so distressed when he said Trayvon was starting to run, something like "SH$%, he's running". Thinking about it I'm trying to imagine what it was he was thinking that seemed to make him act so as to not let TM get away. TM obviously, to me, hadn't committed a burglary (the thefts I read about in the neighborhood were of computers and game systems) as he wasn't carrying anything of any size and so what was he thinking would happen when he was prevented from getting away? It kind of doesn't make sense to me-what had he determined that made him go after this person when he usually seemed to only call and wait for LE.

I wonder if his new gun made the difference (I don't think we know how long he's had it) or did he think TM was one of the burglars he had seen before (doesn't seem likely as he would have mentioned it I think). I also wonder if he was under the influence of something, which I guess we'll never know as I don't believe testing was done.

I'm just trying to imagine what made this 911 call and response different form what he usually did. One friend, Frank said he was "fed up" was that it? What did GZ ever think he was going to do once TM started running? TM would obviously not then stop to commit a crime and GZ had no right to detain him so what was the point? It seems the more I think about what GZ did the less sense it makes....

Here is what I think MIGHT have happened. Our house sits on a little hill right above the community pool. And there have been some break-ins there at the pool, and some costly vandalism. Also, some people sneak in after the pool is closed to party and midnight-swim. Since my own kids used to do that in high school [ I think so anyway] I do not usually report this even though my German Shepherd alerts me to any strange occurrences there.

But when I have seen people lurking, dressed in hoodies and in dark clothing, and standing in the shadows, then YES, I call the non-emergency number.

GZ first reported that TM was under the awning at the community center. That is a likely spot for a burglary or a break-in. So GZ probably thought he had a potential burglar and so he was going to cling on to this kid, hell or high water.

He was wrong and made terrible decisions. But I do not believe he set out to murder anybody, imo. I think this was the perfect storm of horrible circumstances. Especially weird if TM was already safely on his back porch,and then went to confront GZ, imo.

 

[mercuriod]

I went back and looked at GZ's shirt and jacket in the video at police station, I could not see any thing wrong with his clothes in reference to gunpowder residue.

I don't think you can see gunpowder residue with the naked eye, especially not from a grainy video.

 

[Concerned Papa]

ITA

But I think Tray "took off running" or walking fast like the gf said, just to get around the that corner (90 degree turn on the sidewalk) and get out of GZ's sight. Once around that corner I think he went back to walking - maybe he dropped the skittles at one point and had to stop to pick them up? I just don't think he kept running. He told the gf he wasn't going to run - so he ran just far enough to get out of his sight and then went back to walking.

But that's JMHO

I thought about that, Owl, but the timing didn't seem to work. I can show you my calculations, but <modsnip> George was outta his truck giving chase roughly 30 seconds after TM took off running. If TM had been walking along, I tend to think that the confrontation would have happened fairly quickly at that point as opposed to when it did.

I knew this back porch deal was gonna stir the pot somewhat, but it's one of the only ways I can see of TM having somewhat of a "safe haven" for even the shortest of time. There was no where to hide down that long expanse of sidewalk other than a couple of bushes.

 

[iluvmua]

He was not killed on anyone's porch. There is no evidence of that at all, according to the 911 callers and the two women who saw GZ and whom he told to call the police immediately after the shot.

That's another reason I think that article is just bad, inaccurate reporting.

Then why did TM's father say the porch, if he was not actually killed on a porch?

 

[Elley Mae]

Then why did TM's father say the porch, if he was not actually killed on a porch?

sensationalism? he was so close to being home?

 

[Ironhorse]

TonyGatto, If Zimmerman heeded the dispatcher's suggestion not to follow TM, how would you explain how and why he ended up behind the homes where he shot TM?

No one but the DA, Police & Zimmerman know of the location where he was when he was given that advice...

 

[iluvmua]

If you watch the video Brandy Green says " He don't know nobody here, He just came out here, he was bored, So he walked to the store, he was on his way back home, I'm living down here, he was sitting out on the porch and this man he killed him. Are you Serious?"

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...n-shot-and-killed-in-neighborhood-altercation