17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #15

[justthinkin]

african american

Duh. Wait a sec while I turn on my brain. All I could think of at the moment was Alcoholics Anonymous.:blushing:

 

[LambChop]

And it has to be malicious, repeated, and willful, per the stalking statute...

Does not have to be repeated. Following someone and creating a threat is stalking. We use the term to describe an animal stalking it's prey and killing it. It's where the term came from... The person who is being followed only has to be feel their life is threatened. It's a fine line but it can still be applied. If you had to give a person a second chance.....you could be dead. I'd say it was malicious (spiteful, gossip)...."he looks like he's on drugs, he's up to something....", willful (intent to violate a rule).. .getting out of that truck for the sole purpose of following TM and harassing him. Oh, yes...a case could be certainly made.

Oh, and I think the wildebeest, zebras and antelope of the world will back me up on the stalking part. jmo

 

[songline]

Supported by evidence?

He says he was beaten up and his head was repeatedly smashed on the sidewalk. The video evidence certainly doesn't seem to substantiate this. The body's position doesn't seem to support this.

He says he was the one yelling for help. Two voice experts say that it was NOT him.

<modsnip>
Since we do not know who fell first to the ground, and how they rolled and twisted <modsnip>.
WE CAN NOT SAY that the video does not substantiate.
BECAUSE WE DO NOT KNOW.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Supported by evidence?

He says he was beaten up and his head was repeatedly smashed on the sidewalk. The video evidence certainly doesn't seem to substantiate this. The body's position doesn't seem to support this.

He says he was the one yelling for help. Two voice experts say that it was NOT him.

I was watching HLN earlier and a commentator (legal analyst?) said that voice recognition has been used in trials but the method has very strict guidelines.
She said they would need at least 10 words to do it and she only hears 3. Help, please, no.

She also said it would need to be the same type of voice. Meaning they would not be able to use the talking voice to compare it to the screaming voice.

I don't know her name but I remember her from Caylee's case.

I'll try to see if I can find more on it.

 

[Reader]

Originally Posted by Reader
I wanted to bring this over from the last thread and respond:

I realize that the evidence will be under 'discovery' rules once a trial begins (hopefully), but that is not what I meant.

The girl was traumatized by what happened and what she heard. Her parents want to keep her anonymous for as long as possible but have allowed this much to come out.

Maybe she didn't hear anymore and maybe she heard it all until Trayvon was killed. Why should that information be given out PUBLICLY now when we don't even know if there will be a trial or not, and expose the girl to further stress? If she testifies at a trial there will be plenty of opportunity then to discuss it.

FROM SONGLINE

According to her account, the phone did go dead,
NO I would not believe if later, she supposedly heard the
entire thing to the end.

Her parents should keep her anonymous,
I am not so sure about anything at all,
and she does not need people calling,
paying her to say it like this or like that.
PEOPLE WOULD do that. Best she be hidden.

AS IT IS:
being that her story came out after she learned that TM is dead,
makes me question.

BBM - The call itself and the time has been verified...as to what was said it's according to what one wants to believe. I believe her, no reason not to at this time.

 

[gxm]

Supported by evidence?

He says he was beaten up and his head was repeatedly smashed on the sidewalk. The video evidence certainly doesn't seem to substantiate this. The body's position doesn't seem to support this.

He says he was the one yelling for help. Two voice experts say that it was NOT him.

The police report substantiates his story (injuries and wet grass on his back). The original witness testimony supports his story. IMO, the prosecution will have their expert witnesses to claim it's not GZ on the tape, and the defense will have their experts to refute the prosecution's experts so the audio IMO will be moot. IMO, it will be very difficult for the prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that TM did not attack first and/or threaten GZ's life.

Personally, what I really want to know is bullet trajectory and the estimated distance between GZ and TM when the gun was fired. But, that information has not been forthcoming. Right now, we have nothing to work with.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[LambChop]

LC I am jumping off our post, not replying to it.
IMHO talk about Mr. Martins account of his son’s last walk was given to him by police.
SO...all of you are having a crazy conversation IMHO.
It is hard enough for Mr. Martin to go there.
He may have memorized it all word for word as the account was given,
he may have also forgotten something’s and is translating it based on how he is putting the piece together.
HOW DOES IT MATTER WHAT HE SAYS about TM’s last walk?
He is hurt, and his account is not the account that will be heard at a trial.

WHY are we dissecting his account of it all? At the worst he can be a touch off.
Can someone explain WHY - is there any merit to it. Maybe I am missing something.

I just jumped in. I have no idea why someone would think Mr. Martin would have gotten what LE told him wrong. It has to be burned in his brain forever. To my knowledge no one from LE ever came forward to correct what Mr. Martin described. jmo

 

[songline]

I was watching HLN earlier and a commentator (legal analyst?) said that voice recognition has been used in trials but the method has very strict guidelines.
She said they would need at least 10 words to do it and she only hears 3. Help, please, no.

She also said it would need to be the same type of voice. Meaning they would not be able to use the talking voice to compare it to the screaming voice.

I don't know her name but I remember her from Caylee's case.

I'll try to see if I can find more on it.

Maybe the family has his voice recorded someway.. maybe on his Cell, his VM.. a BD song who knoes.

 

[vlpate]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article1221799.ece
~In 2004, Engle Homes began construction on 263 two-story townhouses, with upstairs porches and covered back patios and plenty of green space.~

~By the time Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin, 40 properties inside the gate were empty and more than half of the residents were renters~

~Trayvon Martin lived with his dad, who resides in the Miami area, and had visited his dad's girlfriend at the Retreat several times before. The kids in the neighborhood always looked forward to playing football with him. But to George Zimmerman, he was a stranger.~

RBBM - I don't understand the comment about TM did not live there? He was an invited guest of his father's fiancee.

With that many condos in the complex, I don't find it strange that GZ may not have seen TM on any of his prior visits or know every single person, who lived or was staying in one of the units.

The article also has some comments from a witness's mom and a few other residents.

"That could have so easily been my son," said Brown. "He wears hoodies all the time."
Trayvon's hoodie had nothing to do with his death. She should be afraid of Geraldo.

From your article:

"Trayvon Martin lived with his dad, who resides in the Miami area,

Trayvon was 17, and was in town from Miami where he and his father were both from. He lived in Miami Gardens, a growing South Florida suburb, with his mom, Sybrina Fulton.

Apparently no one is even sure where Trayvon lived.

 

[tehcloser]

It is ridiculous to say that Mr. Martin can not testify in court as to what a policeman told him.

 

[ynotdivein]

1. We have asked that posters stop referring to other cases & to the civil rights figures who have become involved with this case.

2. We have asked that everyone provide links whenever possible to MSM reports to back up statements and support inferences.

3. It is never ok to post wild assumptions, or to deliberately mis-state facts, or to be rude to other posters, here or on any thread at WS.

Review the opening post please. The mods have been quite patient & have given plenty of reminders. TOs are ready to be deployed.

Where this post lands is random.

 

[mikeysmommom]

What does AA stand for in your context?
TIA

African American.

 

[Velouria]

BBM

I see what you did there, but he did not get convicted of anything. Florida does not expunge convictions, only charges. If he had a felony conviction in Florida, he would not have been able to get it expunged and therefore would not be able to purchase a firearm or have a concealed carry permit.

He was not convicted. All of the evidence points to him not having been convicted. Where's the evidence that says he was?

This video explains the situation well:

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/46913502#46913502

The reason that Zimmerman was able to obtain a firearm and a concealed weapons permit is that he was allowed to plea down to a misdemeanor instead of a felony. The court then ordered him to complete an anger management program.

 

[Badlands]

<modsnip>
Since we do not know who fell first to the ground, and how they rolled and twisted to get a hold of the gun.
WE CAN NOT SAY that the video does not substantiate.
BECAUSE WE DO NOT KNOW.

<modsnip>

I'm also not sure about what rolling around for the gun (which I don't even believe happened, btw) has anything to do with the video tape not supporting GZ being seriously beaten to the extent that his life was threatened.

 

[jjenny]

I was watching HLN earlier and a commentator (legal analyst?) said that voice recognition has been used in trials but the method has very strict guidelines.
She said they would need at least 10 words to do it and she only hears 3. Help, please, no.

She also said it would need to be the same type of voice. Meaning they would not be able to use the talking voice to compare it to the screaming voice.

I don't know her name but I remember her from Caylee's case.

I'll try to see if I can find more on it.

In this case they are comparing screams to Zimmerman's voice on tape, I presume. Then start claiming it's not Zimmerman without even comparing Trayvon's voice. If Travyon's voice scored the same low percentage as Zimmerman would they be claiming that it's actually a third person screaming? This really is mind boggling to me that they can claim they ruled Zimmerman out.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I was watching HLN earlier and a commentator (legal analyst?) said that voice recognition has been used in trials but the method has very strict guidelines.
She said they would need at least 10 words to do it and she only hears 3. Help, please, no.

She also said it would need to be the same type of voice. Meaning they would not be able to use the talking voice to compare it to the screaming voice.

I don't know her name but I remember her from Caylee's case.

I'll try to see if I can find more on it.

Did a rewind on my DVR

It was Beth Karas.

Said methodology would be tested in court.

Standards that would have to be followed (from American Board of Recorded Evidence)

Their guidelines:
-you need at least 10 different words to rule someone out or 20 to positively ID somebody.
She hears 3.

-person would need to be talking in the same general manner.
Talking on GZ's 911 tapes much different than the screams.

There are a lot of factors.
She thinks this may not be admissible in court because the guidelines are not met.

Typed as I heard it.

 

[kimpage]

Does anyone know who was the lead detective on the scene???? On MSNBC they had a witness who said the lead detective told her that is was not self-defense and that there was Racial profiling going on.....IMHO JHMO So much reporting i am getting confuzzled IMHO

 

[jjenny]

Did a rewind on my DVR

It was Beth Karas.

Said methodology would be tested in court.

Standards that would have to be followed (from American Board of Recorded Evidence)

Their guidelines:
-you need at least 10 different words to rule someone out or 20 to positively ID somebody.
She hears 3.

-person would need to be talking in the same general manner.
Talking on GZ's 911 tapes much different than the screams.

There are a lot of factors.
She thinks this may not be admissible in court because the guidelines are not met.

Typed as I heard it.

Of course talking is much different than screams. If they had Trayvon's voice on tape what percentage would they get? He might have not scored any better and what would they claim then?

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Maybe the family has his voice recorded someway.. maybe on his Cell, his VM.. a BD song who knoes.

No. She is saying they need 10 words for each way. Like 10 from another source and 10 from the "screams".

Also they would need to be comparable in tone. Like both examples talking or both examples screaming.

 

[mercuriod]

I think you know very well what I meant, and are making excuses. Didn't Trayvon also go hundreds of miles away from his friends and girlfriend when he went to visit his dad? Was that too, punishment???

My question still stands.

No he did not his dad lived in Miami Gardens, the same city as Trayvon. They together were visiting dad's fiance, as a way to get Trayvon away from friends/girlfriend.